No Oppo Supporters Non Bulldog Footy Talk - Bulldogs Only - Part 6

[dogwatch]

Everton completed a new stadium in England this year, 52-53,000 capacity (that can be increased later on a bit) and its cost is estimated to be about $1.6b. Plus that was build on the waterfront of a heritage site, so a lot of additional cost to mitigate flood risks etc

$710mil was probably still dreaming for a stadium about half the size & half the facilities. Plus it’s Tassie, so there will be a hell of a lot of transport costs to get things there.

Bin it, we don’t need any more teams anyway.

Where did this Macquarie Point Folly originate from anyway?

Tasmania had been agitating for years for an AFL team, a seat at the big table. It was a matter of state pride, not to mention the prospect of increased tourism revenue. However its white papers had been ignored. Its entreaties fell on deaf ears. The AFL's focus was instead firmly on the large population centres in the rugby league heartland. Sydney with over 5 million people. South-East Queensland with around 4 million. Tassy had a piddling half a million and anyway it was a captive AFL market already.

Or at least it was until credible reports started emerging about footy dying out in the state. So with the Suns and the Giants well on their way the AFL thought it had better do something about this troublesome island.

It still held all the aces so it was able to negotiate from a position of strength. "You want to join the AFL? Well here's what you've gotta do ..." And sure enough politicians lined up to bend the knee to Gillon & co.

The AFL has a history of conning governments into building the stadiums that help deliver it the rivers of gold. All they have to do is carry on running the most popular and lucrative sporting competition in the country while governments scramble to get a piece of the action. It has assembled a nice little stable of stadiums it has winter rights to - the grand (MCG), the historic (SCG) the boutique (Marvel) and the modern (Optus, AO, etc). After the failure of Waverley Park in Melbourne the key features of stadium strategy have been centrality, modernity and ease of access. So they couldn't contemplate a Tasmanian team operating out of remote Bellerive, or worse still, second-class Launceston. It had to be on prime real estate close to the CBD and public transport. Better chuck a roof on it too. We've heard it gets pretty cold, wet and windy on the other side of Bass Strait.

For once Labor and the Liberals in Tasmania were in wholehearted agreement on something, even if it was going to leave the state in hock for decades. Their business cases were more about the feelgood benefits than the financial ones. (The latest report estimates the returns to Tasmania will be about 45c for every government dollar spent.)

So it has now become the AUKUS of the Apple Isle. Duping of both sides of politics into support for a grand folly that will probably never get delivered. Or if it does it will cost way more than what has been suggested and will deliver many more problems than benefits for its starry eyed proponents.

Its path from this point will certainly be worth following. The project might still get the green light from Tasmania's parliament if enough of the sceptical cross benchers get behind it. I'd love to be a fly on the various walls where all the backroom "persuasion" is going to take place! Even if it proceeds, somebody interviewed on the 7:30 Report tonight said that $1.13 billion was likely to be at the bottom end of the likely actual cost range.

If the project falls through will Tassy still get the 19th club licence? The sensible thing to do would be to revert to Bellerive for a decade or two, with the occasional home game in Launceston of course. Perhaps eventually build a more affordable stadium in a less problematic location as close as possible to the Hobart CBD.

The AFL would have to eat a fair bit of humble pie for that to happen. It does not like to be associated with failed business ventures. But it would also find it hard to backtrack now on all the hype, the planning and the expense that it set rolling when it waved its wand and brought the Tassy Devils into being.

 

[lachy]

Where did this Macquarie Point Folly originate from anyway?

Tasmania had been agitating for years for an AFL team, a seat at the big table. It was a matter of state pride, not to mention the prospect of increased tourism revenue. However its white papers had been ignored. Its entreaties fell on deaf ears. The AFL's focus was instead firmly on the large population centres in the rugby league heartland. Sydney with over 5 million people. South-East Queensland with around 4 million. Tassy had a piddling half a million and anyway it was a captive AFL market already.

Or at least it was until credible reports started emerging about footy dying out in the state. So with the Suns and the Giants well on their way the AFL thought it had better do something about this troublesome island.

It still held all the aces so it was able to negotiate from a position of strength. "You want to join the AFL? Well here's what you've gotta do ..." And sure enough politicians lined up to bend the knee to Gillon & co.

The AFL has a history of conning governments into building the stadiums that help deliver it the rivers of gold. All they have to do is carry on running the most popular and lucrative sporting competition in the country while governments scramble to get a piece of the action. It has assembled a nice little stable of stadiums it has winter rights to - the grand (MCG), the historic (SCG) the boutique (Marvel) and the modern (Optus, AO, etc). After the failure of Waverley Park in Melbourne the key features of stadium strategy have been centrality, modernity and ease of access. So they couldn't contemplate a Tasmanian team operating out of remote Bellerive, or worse still, second-class Launceston. It had to be on prime real estate close to the CBD and public transport. Better chuck a roof on it too. We've heard it gets pretty cold, wet and windy on the other side of Bass Strait.

For once Labor and the Liberals in Tasmania were in wholehearted agreement on something, even if it was going to leave the state in hock for decades. Their business cases were more about the feelgood benefits than the financial ones. (The latest report estimates the returns to Tasmania will be about 45c for every government dollar spent.)

So it has now become the AUKUS of the Apple Isle. Duping of both sides of politics into support for a grand folly that will probably never get delivered. Or if it does it will cost way more than what has been suggested and will deliver many more problems than benefits for its starry eyed proponents.

Its path from this point will certainly be worth following. The project might still get the green light from Tasmania's parliament if enough of the sceptical cross benchers get behind it. I'd love to be a fly on the various walls where all the backroom "persuasion" is going to take place! Even if it proceeds, somebody interviewed on the 7:30 Report tonight said that $1.13 billion was likely to be at the bottom end of the likely actual cost range.

If the project falls through will Tassy still get the 19th club licence? The sensible thing to do would be to revert to Bellerive for a decade or two, with the occasional home game in Launceston of course. Perhaps eventually build a more affordable stadium in a less problematic location as close as possible to the Hobart CBD.

The AFL would have to eat a fair bit of humble pie for that to happen. It does not like to be associated with failed business ventures. But it would also find it hard to backtrack now on all the hype, the planning and the expense that it set rolling when it waved its wand and brought the Tassy Devils into being.

Good summary however the main reason Tassie has never had a team is it cannot generate enough money to fund and support a full time team. Neither Hobart or Launceston have stadiums that would go close to funding a full time professional team nor attract tourism at large enough levels without massive investment anyway

The roofed stadium was presented by the government to the AFL and then became part of the agreement.

The reason for the roofed stadium is not for the 7 home games to be played there (personally should be 11 with the Hawks still playing their 4 in Launceston) , it is to utilise the stadium all year round for events. Since the AFL took over Marvel they have worked out events at the stadium generate significantly more money than the football does. This in Hobart would provide additional funding for the AFL team but importantly for the economy.

The new stadium in Perth and Adelaide oval upgrade prove that you build better facilities' you attract more events, which significantly increases tourism, jobs and revenue to fund critical infrastructure for Governments and therefore the people of the state. Given Tassies main part of the economy is Tourism it becomes more important

 

[grassman75]

Absolutely abhorrent behaviour. Hawthorn by fifty thousand points please

They are no better….absolute arrogant pissants

 

[grassman75]

Never thought anything footy-related could match the dopamine hit of a Dogs win, but watching Essington self-sabotage by publicly destroying the trade value of their greatest asset since Hird brings pure schadenfreude. No wonder they’re such a basket case

Heard a guy call into SEN and say he hopes the Bombers improve because it’s horrible beating a once mighty club in these blockbuster games they have, he wants good games. How bout no. Let’s just accept that they are shit, have been for 25 years and should get no favours from the AFL regarding fixturing and blockbusters and their 16 premierships that were mostly won in comps with 12 or less teams and even won when there wasn’t an actual GF are actually pretty irrelevant like the club itself.

Let’s see them pull the membership figures they do if they weren’t gifted 3 or 4 mcg marquee games every year and had to go back and struggle for air time like we and others did / do

 

[grassman75]

Zac is apparently still going to turn up to this:

View attachment 2428589

The only one there that hasn’t ****ed the club in some way is the Wisp

 

[grassman75]

People love blaming others when it is their own lack of research into the most efficient way to access these sites and then using obsolete tech to try to access those sites that is to blame.

Nah, it’s shit. The way they allocate tickets is a joke- first in get crap restricted view seats and Johnny come lately walks into a prime seat

 

[grassman75]

My order of preference for the flag:

1. Collingwood

(a gap)

2. Brisbane



(daylight)



3. Hawthorn





(light years)





4. Geelong

Fortunately one PF is Hawthorn v Geelong so they won't both be there on GF day.
Unfortunately whichever side wins that PF will probably win the flag.

I hate that Hawthorn are back up there again and that they have so many unlikeable players

 

[Libbaaaa]

Heard a guy call into SEN and say he hopes the Bombers improve because it’s horrible beating a once mighty club in these blockbuster games they have, he wants good games. How bout no. Let’s just accept that they are shit, have been for 25 years and should get no favours from the AFL regarding fixturing and blockbusters and their 16 premierships that were mostly won in comps with 12 or less teams and even won when there wasn’t an actual GF are actually pretty irrelevant like the club itself.

Let’s see them pull the membership figures they do if they weren’t gifted 3 or 4 mcg marquee games every year and had to go back and struggle for air time like we and others did / do

AFL in general just needs to grow up. All we hear every year is how the league needs Carlton, Essendon, Richmond bla bla bla to be up and about and doing well. News flash, they don't. They'll always be 'big' clubs in terms of membership and fan base but at some point you need to recognise that 25-30 years of mediocrity (not the Tigers) is who the club is in terms of the modern landscape.

For example in the NFL the Dallas Cowboys are widely recognised as the most popular team in America due to their history and fan base, but you will never hear even the most one sided talking head say 'we need them to be good for the league'.

 

[Mofra]

The only one there that hasn’t ****ed the club in some way is the Wisp

Jobe is a really good guy from my (brief) dealings with him.

 

[grassman75]

Jobe is a really good guy from my (brief) dealings with him.

I’m sure he is, but he’s part of scandal that cost him a Charlie and me $500 because my betting company wouldn’t pay out on my bet of Cotchin to win that year.

 

[Bulldog rick]

YUCK

 

[dogwatch]

Nah, it’s shit. The way they allocate tickets is a joke- first in get crap restricted view seats and Johnny come lately walks into a prime seat

Shouldn’t have to give your phone number either. They use it for building up customer profiles, market research and spamming you.

 

[geoffjennings79]

It’s a pretty good indication of how little football I’ve seen in the last four or so years when I say that I’ve legitimately never really seen Wilkie or Butts play and wouldn’t know them if I walked past them. But if you astute legends say they’re quality, then I’m onboard

Sorry Hobdog to drag this quote from the Trade thread, but it got me thinking about another common bugbear on this board... the "fixture". I agree, until he suddenly became the potential saviour of our backline, I hadn't taken much note of Wilkie either.

But the fact he hasn't missed a game since debuting r1 of 2019, got me thinking, so I did a quick dive into his stats via afltables. Seven seasons, admittedly 2020 cut short due to covid. He's played 155 games, 3 of which we're finals, against us and Richmond in 2020, and GWS in 2023. Here are his breakdown of games vs all opponents.



Removing a game from each of his 3 finals opponents, most are in a similar range, most at 9, a couple at 8 or 10.

But in 7 seasons of h&a games, he (and St Kilda) have played Collingwood 7 times. While they've played Geelong and Richmond 11 times. Small sample size sure, and I'm going to dig a bit deeper across clubs when I have time. Interestingly only 5 of the Cats games were at Mangy Hollow (the 2020 game at the Gabba was nominally a St Kilda home game), and I suspect there were double ups vs Richmond due to the "Maddy's game", although don't think Tigers were part of that this year? Anyway, food for thought, but I'll try to get a larger sample size.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Shouldn’t have to give your phone number either. They use it for building up customer profiles, market research and spamming you.

Make one up.

 

[dogwatch]

Make one up.

I'll have to memorise the Geelong FC number.

 

[grassman75]

Shouldn’t have to give your phone number either. They use it for building up customer profiles, market research and spamming you.

Nah…it’s to send you your tickets DW….thats all

 

[Northernsoul74]

 

[grassman75]

It’s a real shame that Tacos aren’t that good for you…

 

[dogwatch]

Nah…it’s to send you your tickets DW….thats all

Not last weekend at the AFLW. I’d already bought my ticket at the gate and got a printed ticket (remember them?) Then they asked for my phone number. It’s a unique id that they can use to track your spending and attendance habits.

 

[dogwatch]

So soon the salary cap will be out the door. If it isn’t already.

Companies want the clubs they sponsor to be successful (more brand exposure) so they’ll be happy to follow the Cotton On model if it means securing elite talent.

Before we know it, it’ll be another all-out arms race.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

When you live in a corpocracy as we do. As long as you do it brazenly and in the open, crime is now legal.

 

[grassman75]

Not last weekend at the AFLW. I’d already bought my ticket at the gate and got a printed ticket (remember them?) Then they asked for my phone number. It’s a unique id that they can use to track your spending and attendance habits.

Yeh this bloody government and their digital id shit….you'll only get tickets if you behave soon

I’m old enough to remember computers shutting down and wiping everything that’s why I always print my tickets and boarding passes etc while still using the digital version I ain’t getting caught out….dinosaur me!

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Yeh this bloody government and their digital id shit….you'll only get tickets if you behave soon

I’m old enough to remember computers shutting down and wiping everything that’s why I always print my tickets and boarding passes etc while still using the digital version I ain’t getting caught out….dinosaur me!

I hope you’re buying carbon credits and eating less meat too.

 

[Dogs Rule]

So soon the salary cap will be out the door. If it isn’t already.

Companies want the clubs they sponsor to be successful (more brand exposure) so they’ll be happy to follow the Cotton On model if it means securing elite talent.

Before we know it, it’ll be another all-out arms race.

On a side note, I love Lyon for just trolling Geelong's 'nothing to see here, we're all above board' approach to this third party bull****.

Everyone knows Geelong are as dodgy as hell and it's good that they're being called out so explicitly.

 

[Mojorisin]

Zac is apparently still going to turn up to this:

View attachment 2428589

Merrett no longer attending with Heppell named as replacement.