List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[jaggabagga]

How the elite four of the AFL stay so good

The 21st century has been dominated by four AFL clubs — Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Brisbane — but there's no single secret to their success.

www.abc.net.au

The real answer is that they cheat better and harder than everyone else.
With the exception maybe of Hawthorn

 

[jaggabagga]

I dont think he will be. Think he'll be in our best team with Chesser

Then we won't be doing much, already got one list clogger tall defender who's been on the list far too long.

 

[JustOneTime]

The key to our defence defending better, intercepting better and rebounding better is a midfield which sets them up better. Put more pressure on the opposition ball carrier and we intercept and get those opportunities to rebound quickly more. Our issue is our lack of pace in the midfield, we can't put pressure on so the ball is coming in far too controlled and it's being carried far to often by the player delivering it so the pressure is on our defenders too often.

We have gone pretty hard in the draft for defenders. Wilson, Cowan, Charleson, Carroll. So hopefully these selections bring what we need at the level we want. We need to get games into these guys. Hollands, gets it a lot but is a poor kick.

We have room for a genuine half back, a good one, but the young ones could come on and all of a sudden we are fine in this area.

I think Smith could also bring a level of flair in defence similar to Daicos.

Our defence's biggest issue is that it is underperforming and that is because the midfield does not support it well enough. Our midfield's ability to chase and apply pressure just is not anywhere near it.

You could be right on the midfield. We know they are slow. But then i think of everything said about all of our small forwards and half forwards all running back and then offering nothing in attack because they are too defensive in position. When we kick out, we are mostly outnumbered 'easily' because everyone is in the D50.

So to some extent there is evidence of a lot of our 18 running back to help out. I've seen both motlop and Fogarty pinged in our defence.

Cerra, Jagga in the midfield and to my mind Walsh/O Hollands on the wing solves all the defensive running in one swoop. Our club needs to solve the lack of run, handball recieve and run/overlap and someone who can elite kick - out of defence/turnovers.

I get it about the draft picks but they are help for another time period like 2028. Maybe that is the clubs goal but i then how many B grade players leave the side in that short period of time.

 

[gbatman]

With a fit Newman/Kemp/Curnow/Mckay where do you have us Batman? I still dont think we make the 8 based on how we play (coach responsibility) and some players in wrong position (O Hollands, Fogarty, Mcgovern, Lord when he plays wing, Cerra is an attacking mid but playing as a defensive mid due to Cripps role).

Do you have us making the 8?

Yeah we can make the 8, I think we squeeze in. We need to add an A grade quick mid to push top 4 which I think we can. That's a non-negotiable if we want a flag soon

We need to get quicker, all over the field and more skilled by foot. We need another quick gun in the middle. We could do with a quick winger and some real forwards.

I like hearing who we are linked to. Chesser, he's a young guy who has had a bad ankle but he's quick, chases and he can kick and play forward a bit. Has talent. Butters is the type of elite mid which we need and we need to land one, we just have to. We need to have our Lachie Neale, Patrick Dangerfield, Tom Mitchell moment. Land a big name mid. Humphrey is a great fit for us if we can get him, genuine forward. So we have to have a killer offseason like this to really make sure we get back in this.

Then we have players coming back from injury. Smith, Newman, Kemp, Curnow (maybe) and McKay.

We have young talent coming on.

I can see us coming back next season from this. I think we need to be all about 2027. Our youth mature, we get Walker in and get to hit the draft and trade period again.

We can, but there's plenty to fix. Get some genuine forwards in, more forwards who are strong overhead, a bit more pace in the forward line. Some pace and agility in the midfield. We don't just suck with run and carry, our ability to chase and apply pressure is the big killer for our midfield. Our defence, we have youth coming through but for 2026 we are a tall defender short. So if we tick these things off this off season, for sure, we should be in the 8.

My biggest worry is that there are a lot of sides out there who have been working hard on making their outside game better and their list quicker for years and those sides have gone past us. There are more and more sides going past us so it comes down to how we adjust and catch up because we have some great top end talent but we lack depth, structure and pace.

I am hanging out to see how we go, can we bring in who we need to go forward? I am hopeful.

 

[Norm De Guerre]

4 years, add it to the list of things our list manager has done that’s ridiculous.

If true

Seems excessive to me as well and it could end up being bullshit, but thats the rumour going around.

 

[gbatman]

You could be right on the midfield. We know they are slow. But then i think of everything said about all of our small forwards and half forwards all running back and then offering nothing in attack because they are too defensive in position. When we kick out, we are mostly outnumbered 'easily' because everyone is in the D50.

So to some extent there is evidence of a lot of our 18 running back to help out. I've seen both motlop and Fogarty pinged in our defence.

Cerra, Jagga in the midfield and to my mind Walsh/O Hollands on the wing solves all the defensive running in one swoop. Our club needs to solve the lack of run, handball recieve and run/overlap and someone who can elite kick - out of defence/turnovers.

I get it about the draft picks but they are help for another time period like 2028. Maybe that is the clubs goal but i then how many B grade players leave the side in that short period of time.

Small forwards pushing back harder than other sides is either poor coaching or it's covering for something.

If it's covering for anything it is a midfield which does not have the agility and pace to chase and apply pressure (defend).

I have noticed it as well.

Cerra doesn't have a great deal of pace. I think we could trim him down and see if we can get him going on a wing. Early in his career he was trending as an elite wingman. We need to go hard at a midfielder. IF the Butters rumours are true then we have to go hard at him.

Jagga was penciled in as a half forward who has some time on the ball. He's very light framed, I think he will spend a lot of time on a flank or wing with bursts in the middle.

Walsh could kill it on a wing but as our only midfielder with genuine pace, it kills us when he is not there. Opposition know this and they target him. This is why we need two of them at least. Another quick A grade mid paired with walsh is exactly what will revive Carlton.

2026 won't be anything special. It should be an improvement and we should push for finals however we need to be focused on 2027 onwards.

The draft picks are more advanced than that. I expect Wilson to play a lot of games. Cowan is mature. Carroll will be another level ahead next year. Charleson will be AFL ready. Dean will be like O'Farrell and play games. O'Farrell will come back pretty well. Moir is ready to go.

 

[gbatman]

Why would we offer a player like Khamis 4 years, ridiculous if true.

Yeah, means nothing has changed with us. Only thing I can think of is that we rate him higher than he has performed or we see him as a long term high level backup.

 

[ctwenty1]

If we have a desire to play finals in 2016 I’d give Goldstein a 1 year minimum.

Ok

You get the contract

I’ll fire up the time machine

 

[Andypooh23]

How about a good one

Ron Barassi?

 

[dangertroy]

We got hammered with injury, which with good recruiting, gives us great scope to improve.

Your list also does not include Curnow or McKay who hardly played or played unfit.

The injuries emphasised our weaknesses, both player and game plan and that will be valuable. Just watching who we are linked to so far. There are forwards and quick players involved. We could turn around quite strongly with a little less Carlton luck.

Yeah, I stuck to a top 10, but Harry and Charlie were numbers 11 and 12, with 8 and 3 games less each, respectively. Walsh was 13, missing 5 more games. And as you say, Charlie played injured most of the year, and Walsh was underdone too. We only had six full games with Harry and Charlie together, as opposed to 20 the year before, so we never really got the game plan going with both of them playing. The plan was to play those two, plus Kemp - those three played one game together, and Harry got concussed early, then Kemp did his Achilles. Kemp and Elijah didn't play a game together, so we never got to see 4 intended front-half players playing together.

We criticised the game plan all year, but we never got to see it play out as intended. Obviously, Vossy needed to pivot from that strategy and couldn't come up with a suitable plan B. You can't blame injuries because it's extremely rare to have your actual best 22 fit and firing together, but the particular injuries at the particular times meant we never really functioned effectively.

Our best win of the season was round 8 over Geelong, and it was probably our cleanest bill of health. Injured players who would have been considered best 22 at that stage were Kemp, Cowan and Doc (dropped) - all of them improve the side, but Doc and Cowan both play roles we had depth in. Harry and Charlie were both playing, and while Kemp would improve us, part of his value is his versatility, so we didn't lose as much with him being out. Still missing Newman ofcourse, but we could cover injuries while keeping our intended structure and beat a team that's just made the grand final.

 

[katmanblue]

Then we won't be doing much, already got one list clogger tall defender who's been on the list far too long.

This eternal optimism is a shining light.

 

[DangerousD]

Yeah, means nothing has changed with us. Only thing I can think of is that we rate him higher than he has performed or we see him as a long term high level backup.

Surely no other club is offering that, I really hope it’s BS, I hope we would Learn after being stuck with several players who aren’t up to the level.

 

[DangerousD]

Do people really think that a single player in Jagga Smith will strengthen our side more than Berry and Reid would have?

Or Berry/Reid + pick 8 this year and 26?

Two good players are better than one

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Do people really think that a single player in Jagga Smith will strengthen our side more than Berry and Reid would have?

Or Berry/Reid + pick 8 this year and 26?

Two good players are better than one

No, but it's extremely difficult to get a player like Jagga on the list so when an opportunity like that presents you have to jump at it.

Berry and Reid types come around more frequently despite being fantastic talents in their own right.

Would have been happy with either outcome but I understand why Austin was so keen on Jagga.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

 

[TENACIOUS]

Why would we offer a player like Khamis 4 years, ridiculous if true.

That’s our MO.
Giving longer renewal contracts to players no one wants.

Pittonet
Young
Motlop
Acres
Durdin

 

[Benaly28]

Baku played third tall defender. Good hands and solid kick. Definitely afl level, assume odonnells strong form and bigger size just kept him out. Not sure.

Buku will be recruited to play forward

 

[BlueLocke]

Buku will be recruited to play forward

I’m resigned to Charlie being traded, but a forward combination of McKay, Kemp, HOK, Moir and Khamis has enough height to be competitive in the air whilst still providing a defensive edge. Better still if we keep Hollands and recruit Humphrey as rumoured.

Means we’re still short a KPD, unless they’re already counting on Dean playing as the second tall defender from round 1.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

That’s our MO.
Giving longer renewal contracts to players no one wants.

Pittonet
Young
Motlop
Acres
Durdin

If Young and Pittonet were out of contract now I’d be a lot more worried than having signed them for an extra season.
Acres I can also live with as he will only be 31 when his contract was up and was one of our better players when he signed


Polson is the worst one I have seen

 

[COACH25]

Interested to know how you see him as a player B85, his strengths and weaknesses, any potential level of upside either as a forward or defender, cheers…

He is as good as silvagni

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

Just rank amateurism from the AFL.

Nothing says aimless and spineless like knee jerk tinkering and pandering to loud minorities.

The only plus is its driving people back to local football. I went to one game this year and watched a lot more local footy. I don't see that changing next year.

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

He is as good as silvagni

Not remotely close as a defender, and doubtful as a forward.

But a handy addition at the right price.

 

[COACH25]

J ugle Hagan is keen to leave the bulldogs .
Back in the new surrounding coaches and GW to get him back on track?
Would be a perfect replacement for curnow if he keeps his mind on the job!

 

[COACH25]

Not remotely close as a defender, and doubtful as a forward.

But a handy addition at the right price.

Cheaper price will save heaps of money. Probably can’t play on the absolute bigs jack plays on. But would offer around the same amount of impact game day wise as a third tall.

 

[Jacks Seething Rage]

Cheaper price will save heaps of money. Probably can’t play on the absolute bigs jack plays on. But would offer around the same amount of impact game day wise as a third tall.

Unlikely. Jack wasn't on big dollars.

You will find lots of kind words from WB supporters on Khamis, though not one of them on his defensive attributes.