List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[eaglevision]

How would we get the currency to get both?
Eagles F1 would be spent on Cody.

But back to a trade this year, we can’t trade Charlie in a deal where picks end up being the major component at the end of trade week.

If our F1 was pick 1 (likely) you take Cochrane. Then you have your own R1 and Swans R1 to hopefully cover a Walker bid.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Look our swap is essentially with the swans, which I think looks about right.

Carlton have every right to value Curnow exactly where they want to but as a neutral I’d be genuinely surprised if the media and industry thought that was a bad deal for Carlton.

Would it change anything if we sent our F1 to Sydney instead of pick 2? That might be Dougie Cochrane.

It would for me...

You're spot on to put the question forward if Charlie will be there for our next flag... imo, not a chance. His attitude alone is enough to ensure that he won't help us get there.

If we can get rid of him for two F1 picks (one being yours which will likely be #1) then we've done extremely well.

Plus like you said, we'd then have our own 1st + Swans to pay for Cody...

I can also see us going to * and saying here's our 2027 1st, give us your 2026 1st (we might need to sweeten the deal a bit for them) but that would work well for both given they want to match a bid on Bewick in 27 draft...

I see us in a reset mode. I believe we're looking to get a pick before any Dean bid this year so that might thwart my plans... but I think that would change big time if your F1 was involved...

 

[Blue_Fusion]

It does seem like it. If it was the 2026 draft pick 2 would be worth about double what it is in this draft, Walker + one of Cochrane or Butler would be an utterly absurd pairing to pick up in one draft.

Hmmm... I've been saying that for months now...

Imagine the scenario where we have the Eagles 1st, we finish second last ( ) and we have *'s + Swan's 1st as well...

We take Cochrane + Butler with picks 1 & 2... then use * + Swans 1st to match the Cody bid..

All it costs us is Curnow, 2027 1st and some other picks...

 

[Blue By Blood]

Well you guys can name your price, he’s contracted. A really important question to ask is where is the list at and will Curnow play in a premiership at Carlton? If the answer is no then does it make sense to move on a 28yo at peak value?

Personally I still think we have a crack at it over the next couple of years and I believe this is what the club is thinking too. There's still enough star power on the list and if we can address the issues around the edges in terms of lack of speed and some better foot skills combined with a better injury run and there's no reason the team shouldn't be contending. We had the 2nd biggest amount of games lost to injuries behind only Essendon. That takes a toll and continues to test depth. On the plus side it exposed some of our kids to getting games and should they be needed next year they will be able to step up to the level easier.

There's simply no way we let Curnow go for just picks. We want a star player back. The club has said this multiple times. He is being severely underrated in the media and most of the trades being touted in the media are ludicrous. Mentioning Florent (not in their best 22), Hayward etc. in the frame for a dual Coleman medalist in Curnow who has many good years left is crazy.

I respect the different view points with where the list is at and have seen many good arguments in our board put forth on both sides. But it feels like the club still thinks we have a shot if we improve the edges of the list by bringing in pace and athletiscm.

 

[circusdevil]

Well you guys can name your price, he’s contracted. A really important question to ask is where is the list at and will Curnow play in a premiership at Carlton? If the answer is no then does it make sense to move on a 28yo at peak value?

If this draft was any good, you wouldn't be keen to give up pick 2 so easily. We aren't trading Charlie to facilitate a trade that involves Chesser - that one gets done without us needing to jettison a superstar.

I don't see us being able to get full value for Curnow in a trade because of where our father sons are placed for the next couple of drafts.

I'd hold him and then reassess next year if he wants to leave. We have our free agency compo and FS/NGA kids this year. That's plenty. to work with to turn over our list this off season.

Next off season we don't have to worry about diluting any free agency compo, will have money in the bank to bring in players, and we have our top end draft choice secured in Walker. That is the year we have the flexibility to move on Charlie and cash in if we still feel we need to.

 

[Jimmae]

This is the grand plan:

WCE OUT: 2,17,21,24,35, Chesser, Ryan
WCE IN: 7,8,10, Davies, F2 (STK)

GCS OUT: 7, F1, Flanders, Davies
GCS IN: Curnow, 21,24,35

CARL OUT: Curnow, 10
CARL IN: 2, 17, F1 (GCS), Chesser

STK OUT: 8, F2 (STK)
STK IN: Flanders, Ryan

Think it suits everyone’s needs but the crucial part is how badly GCS want Curnow. Saints get their targets, Blues get well compensated and a 2nd F1 for Walker, GCS get their man and the points they need for their academy kids.

I really hope our idiot list manager doesn’t chase Acres and Gov jnr

I don't like that deal for any of the clubs involved. This draft is better across the top 40 than how you're valuing it, you've got WCE throwing away picks like they're litter, and you have no shortage of holes on your list.

Bar Waterman you're now really struggling to figure out the marking elements of your forward line that can drag you out of the bottom 4, and the midfield and defence need some help, particularly on the outside.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Hmmm... I've been saying that for months now...

Imagine the scenario where we have the Eagles 1st, we finish second last ( ) and we have *'s + Swan's 1st as well...

We take Cochrane + Butler with picks 1 & 2... then use * + Swans 1st to match the Cody bid..

All it costs us is Curnow, 2027 1st and some other picks...

We ain't finishing last or 2nd last so the point is moot

 

[Blue_Fusion]

We ain't finishing last or 2nd last so the point is moot

I'll tell you the same thing I told arrow when he insisted our TDK compo pick this year would be about 17...

You don't know that...

Reality is, our list is taking a significant hit this year. The names we're linked to will provide some depth, but won't do much to offset what we've lost/going to lose...

So, a bit of a drop off from us, a bit of natural progression from the teams below us, bottom 4 and potentially 2 is not out of the realm of possibility...

 

[DEESNUTSRBIG]

Florant is a poor kick and even worse decision maker in the backline + contracted. I cant see Carlton having any interest there.

 

[DEESNUTSRBIG]

Zero chance Curnow goes to Geelong they have crap picks and dont want to trade quality players.
Gold Coast would need to trade a Humphries, Walter type or lots of picks to other clubs so Carlton could get replacement player/s.
Sydney would need to trade Warner or a package of The Lizard + Hayward or picks.
The Lizard would be perfect for Carlton with his speed out of the backline. I wish Melbourne could get him by trading Petracca.

 

[eaglevision]

It would for me...

You're spot on to put the question forward if Charlie will be there for our next flag... imo, not a chance. His attitude alone is enough to ensure that he won't help us get there.

If we can get rid of him for two F1 picks (one being yours which will likely be #1) then we've done extremely well.

Plus like you said, we'd then have our own 1st + Swans to pay for Cody...

I can also see us going to * and saying here's our 2027 1st, give us your 2026 1st (we might need to sweeten the deal a bit for them) but that would work well for both given they want to match a bid on Bewick in 27 draft...

I see us in a reset mode. I believe we're looking to get a pick before any Dean bid this year so that might thwart my plans... but I think that would change big time if your F1 was involved...

*’s 2026 1R would not come cheap. I’m not sure they would trade it for a top 5 pick year, let alone 2027 F1. Long way out but I personally don’t think Bewick makes the top 10.

I agree with your reset view. I don’t mean that disrespectfully but when I look at your list I don’t see the depth required to win a flag, which is what we’re all here for. Cripps, Walsh, Weitering, Curnow and McKay when healthy are all A graders, it’s what happens after that which is the concern.

You’re trying to turn pick 10 into a strong F1 to pay for Walker, haven’t heard anywhere that you want to get ahead of a Dean bid but you’ve probably got your ear closer to the ground than me.

 

[JJBagger]

I'll tell you the same thing I told arrow when he insisted our TDK compo pick this year would be about 17...

You don't know that...

Reality is, our list is taking a significant hit this year. The names we're linked to will provide some depth, but won't do much to offset what we've lost/going to lose...

So, a bit of a drop off from us, a bit of natural progression from the teams below us, bottom 4 and potentially 2 is not out of the realm of possibility...

All of our best players had career worst years. And we still finished 11th

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

*’s 2026 1R would not come cheap. I’m not sure they would trade it for a top 5 pick year, let alone 2027 F1. Long way out but I personally don’t think Bewick makes the top 10.

I agree with your reset view. I don’t mean that disrespectfully but when I look at your list I don’t see the depth required to win a flag, which is what we’re all here for. Cripps, Walsh, Weitering, Curnow and McKay when healthy are all A graders, it’s what happens after that which is the concern.

You’re trying to turn pick 10 into a strong F1 to pay for Walker, haven’t heard anywhere that you want to get ahead of a Dean bid but you’ve probably got your ear closer to the ground than me.

Agree on Bewick

 

[eaglevision]

Personally I still think we have a crack at it over the next couple of years and I believe this is what the club is thinking too. There's still enough star power on the list and if we can address the issues around the edges in terms of lack of speed and some better foot skills combined with a better injury run and there's no reason the team shouldn't be contending. We had the 2nd biggest amount of games lost to injuries behind only Essendon. That takes a toll and continues to test depth. On the plus side it exposed some of our kids to getting games and should they be needed next year they will be able to step up to the level easier.

There's simply no way we let Curnow go for just picks. We want a star player back. The club has said this multiple times. He is being severely underrated in the media and most of the trades being touted in the media are ludicrous. Mentioning Florent (not in their best 22), Hayward etc. in the frame for a dual Coleman medalist in Curnow who has many good years left is crazy.

I respect the different view points with where the list is at and have seen many good arguments in our board put forth on both sides. But it feels like the club still thinks we have a shot if we improve the edges of the list by bringing in pace and athletiscm.

And this is the counter argument to the above. With such good talent at the top end of the list if not now then when do you have a crack?

History show we grossly overestimated our list after the flag. End 2019 we brought in Tim Kelly which whilst overpaying I didn’t mind the win now philosophy behind it. 2020 was an abomination, had to realise we weren’t it then and really should have traded out our players of currency (eg Gov Snr, Yeo, Gaff etc.) who were open to a move and brought in the next wave for another flag tilt in 5 years. All those guys and others would have netted top 10 picks at the very least.

I do think Carlton believe they are still in the flag window, but are they 2023 Geelong or 2020 West Coast? If it’s the former I think you have to keep Curnow unless as you say there’s a star youngish mid like a Butters available. If it’s the later you have to take your medicine and get top end picks for the future.

 

[eaglevision]

If this draft was any good, you wouldn't be keen to give up pick 2 so easily. We aren't trading Charlie to facilitate a trade that involves Chesser - that one gets done without us needing to jettison a superstar.

I don't see us being able to get full value for Curnow in a trade because of where our father sons are placed for the next couple of drafts.

I'd hold him and then reassess next year if he wants to leave. We have our free agency compo and FS/NGA kids this year. That's plenty. to work with to turn over our list this off season.

Next off season we don't have to worry about diluting any free agency compo, will have money in the bank to bring in players, and we have our top end draft choice secured in Walker. That is the year we have the flexibility to move on Charlie and cash in if we still feel we need to.

Not saying I’m keen to give pick 2 away but there are some players in the top 10 I don’t think are too far away from pick 2/3. In no way is the trade about facilitating Chesser, he’s the steak knives, not the main show.

Do see a good argument to hold Charlie for one more year, but will his value increase or decrease if he is one year older and possibly checked out for the year?

 

[eaglevision]

I don't like that deal for any of the clubs involved. This draft is better across the top 40 than how you're valuing it, you've got WCE throwing away picks like they're litter, and you have no shortage of holes on your list.

Bar Waterman you're now really struggling to figure out the marking elements of your forward line that can drag you out of the bottom 4, and the midfield and defence need some help, particularly on the outside.

I don’t agree with your comment about the top 40, in my view this is a very poor draft after the top 10 and those late picks are more valuable as points for a club expecting early bids than taking players late.

Jobe Shanahan has the best set of hands i’ve seen on a young KPF in a long time, no worries at all about our KPF stocks but I agree our midfield is ****ed and defence full of plodders.

 

[The Bighouse]

Anyone able to provide an update on the Irish boys? There was lots of talk when we brought them in about their pedigree and also the significant investment we were making in scouting/recruitment in Ireland at the time. Obviously, one had an unfortunate knee injury, but aside from that, I can't recall hearing anything about Irish footy since that period.

Duffy out with an ACL before he was due to head out to Aus. Delayed debut until this year and more than likely another year to go. Played as a defender.

Monahan started as a forward in a pretty poor functioning side which makes for a hard initiation to a new sport. Injured as well (groin IIRC) end of ‘24 into ‘25. Was positioned as a defender in year II. OOC this year.

Didn’t see much VFL so can’t report on their touch, game sense or improvements but we’d prob want to further our investment into our promoted Irish recruiting drive by sticking with them - both very talented athletes just may need to show some patience.

They’re currently our 2 x Cat B’s, so unless there’s others out there we’re looking at, then we might as well keep them on the development train (noting that most our dev coaches/dept have vacated).

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Agree on Bewick

Lol, he’s starred as a 16 year old playing in the CTL and stars every single step up in level he’s done.

Must be one hell of a draft class if he’s not top 5, absolute jet

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Lol, he’s starred as a 16 year old playing in the CTL and stars every single step up in level he’s done.

Must be one hell of a draft class if he’s not top 5, absolute jet

More so that he's quite small, not super explosive and in general just a 'good' athlete rather than a standout at this stage. On pure football output he's an absolute gun.

More just projecting forward and how he'll be able to dominate at the next level really. Footy smarts he's got in spades but now you need smarts and the athletic gifts to be in the genuine top end of players at AFL level.

 

[COACH25]

Everyone do yourself a favour and turn on the afl futures game
Cody Walker is an absolute freak! So clean glides across the ground strong overhead and is the leading disposal getter!
Walsh , Jagga and Walker will destroy midfields for the next decade!

 

[Blue_Fusion]

All of our best players had career worst years. And we still finished 11th

We had a piss weak draw too...

and the last 2 games are the only reason we did so... go have a look who we played, those teams couldn't have tried any harder to lose.

anyway, we can speculate all we want, time will tell... as always...

 

[Blue_Fusion]

*’s 2026 1R would not come cheap. I’m not sure they would trade it for a top 5 pick year, let alone 2027 F1. Long way out but I personally don’t think Bewick makes the top 10.

They made the moves for Kako... they will for Bewick no doubt... plus imo, he's def top 10... easily...

I agree with your reset view. I don’t mean that disrespectfully but when I look at your list I don’t see the depth required to win a flag, which is what we’re all here for. Cripps, Walsh, Weitering, Curnow and McKay when healthy are all A graders, it’s what happens after that which is the concern.

It's not disrespect, it's reality. Not all on here want to accept it, but bad luck, it is what it is. Even our coach mentioned we're going through a reset.

 

[The Bighouse]

More so that he's quite small, not super explosive and in general just a 'good' athlete rather than a standout at this stage. On pure football output he's an absolute gun.

More just projecting forward and how he'll be able to dominate at the next level really. Footy smarts he's got in spades but now you need smarts and the athletic gifts to be in the genuine top end of players at AFL level.

Look at his dad…

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Look at his dad…

Look at the Campo twins kicking...

 

[gbatman]

I think we need to be very open to trading Curnow. We have a lot to fix and we can potentially fix a lot with that trade.

I don't think he goes to Geelong, I don't think they can or would be willing to satisfy our demands. I can't see how Sydney can satisfy our demands either.

Curnow, Silvagni, DeKoning, McGovern, Docherty, maybe Acres plus others opens up our salary cap pretty well. This should not be an issue.

Curnow's trade value is also going to rapidly go down now, he's going to be 29 years old next year and we don't know how well he will play, he could absolutely bomb, we don't know.

One thing the Curnow trade has to fix is the age demographic issues with our tall forwards. Curnow and McKay being similar age is not going to work well for us when either or both start to deteriorate and eventually retire which is coming sooner than we would like. So this trade has to involve a tall forward for that reason who is younger than Curnow/McKay. Curnow leaving also means we have to find a tall forward. It just makes sense that this trade has to include a young tall forward. That is the non-negotiable.

Looking at other urgent needs, fast quality midfielder and small forward. I think we can and should be looking at using Curnow, DeKoning and Silvagni's exits to fix these issues.

Then we can get back as soon as next year to playing finals and also extending our window of strength.

I think we have done really well sorting our our age demographic with our defence, there is some really good young talent coming through there.

Our midfield lacks, structure, pace and a little extra quality but it also needs it's age demographic fixing as well. It's not bad, but it is not where we really want it.

Cripps - 30
Hewett - 29
Acres - 29
Cerra - 25
Walsh 24
Lord - 20
Smith - 19
B Camporeale - 18
L Camporeale - 18

We want to be the best and that means having the best midfield or extremely close to it. The group to me lacks a bit of quality and pace in the middle. Cerra has not become the mid we were hoping, he's been injury prone, perhaps a move back to a wing if we can recruit for the middle suites both he and the team. Hewett and Cripps are at the end of their careers and we will be hoping Lord and Camporeale don't just become ok mids but can reach their level of output. Smith will be an excellent improvement but he will be more flank or wing for at least a few years and he should be. He fixes weaknesses there. Acres is about done, his lack of pace has caught up with him as a winger. So to me, half of our midfield is ok, but it lacks quality and it lacks pace and mobility. It's one really good mid of the right type away from really changing things in there for us. It's no wonder we are allegedly inquiring about someone like Butters, perfect fit.

Can we use the losses of DeKoning, Silvagni and potentially Curnow to go bang, bang, bang? Young key forward, quick inside mid, genuine quality young small forward?

Curnow to me, we work with Gold Coast and see how much they want him. Demands should be Walter and Humphrey. That's two issues solved immediately. The next part of that trade needs to be focused on getting a first round pick out of them. Even if it is a future first. A future first and perhaps we look into landing a gun mid at the end of next season.

Walk away with Walters, Humphrey and a first round pick and I am very glad to do that trade.

That then gives us roughly pick 9 (TDK), Pick 18 (Silvagni), Pick 6 or 13 or F1st. We then use these picks to chase the perfect fit midfielder. Open salary cap, plenty of picks this is our warchest to fix our issues and set ourselves up for well into the future. That is assuming that Curnow is that wanted and Suns agree to all of this. IMO they are the only club we could do a deal with where we come out really well.

Later picks and trades to be used to bring in Chesser who I am excited to get, Reidy and others to fill gaps. We probably have to use the Silvagni pick on Dean, so it is probably off the table as trade currency.

Structurally our best 22 for 2027 onwards could be as follows.

Carroll Weitering Dean
Wilson O'Farrell Cowan
Chesser Cripps Smith
Walker Kemp Humphry
Walter McKay Moir
O'Keeffe Walsh Butters
Hollands Lord Cerra Motlop
B Camporeale

Reserve
Hewett Williams Saad Charleson Newman White Evans Young Cottrell Reidy etc

Will also have to factor in Ison and Gresham into the equation as well. If they work out for us then that means we have a bright future post Cripps and Hewett and we go into a really strong era, should we pull off these high profile trades.

To me that is a really good side. If one or two of those players don't turn out then fine, we find them, get more out of our veterans hopefully.

I think that team would be very hard to beat. That is roughly the structure and the quality we need to be aiming for to get us back up in contention and firing again. Two quick onballers to feed off the bigger body and apply pressuer as well as burst speed with the ball. Pace and skill on the wings and flanks. Really sets up our intercept game, ball movement and rebound off half back and gives us a lot of great quick and strong overhead targets going forward but also quality rotation depth as well. As for age demographic it's good, very solid.

Could easily be a better team than we had in 2023, it's more modern. It also has time on it's side, the older players have young players who can take over from them. There are also not a whole heap of old players we need to replace who will all finish up around about the same time, which is a thing that has really hurt us in the past and seen us bottom out. End of the Parkin/Brittan era, end of the Ratten era, let's avoid that bottoming out.

I am absolutely 100% adamant that if we can pull off a trade period like this that we will play finals next year and be a flag contender in 2027. We aren't far off it, we just need to get things done right and do things well to build our team back up so that it is quicker and more talented than it has been.