List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

[Aphrodite]

 

[blueblooded]

Absolutely more than comfortable that they've all been moved on or getting moved on. Its a great thing for the club.

Couldn’t agree more .. how many of that list have gone on to get a game at any decent club? Apart from Martin no one .. they’re all playing local footy or struggling to get a game at st Kilda or north Melbourne.

Apart from our top end talent we overrated our list big time in 2022 2023

 

[katmanblue]

Because as has been made clear, it's not about money or opportunity with SOS, but ego.

Rather than just taking care of him in the off-season, knowing he was rehabbing a knee injury, we made it quite clear he was a second priority and assumed he would resign into whatever space we could squeeze once TDK was sorted. We let it go far too long without even am offer. Took him for granted and left the door ajar for someone else to swoop.

Good clubs just don't let this sort of thing happen. It should have been the other way around - TDK was the white elephant offer, and we should have taken care of business with SOS and others first and left TDK to fit into the gaps.

Spin. Can't admit to moving for the money. Just like his dad, everything is everyone else's fault.

 

[The Bighouse]

But that's exactly the kind of 'superstars or duds' thinking that has us in this position, forever.

Good clubs look at what they have, and figure out how to make it useful. Good clubs also think in a squad mentality, expect injuries and plan backups.

Bad clubs always look at the flaws and give up on people too early and too quickly. Bad clubs think in 'best 22' terms, don't have injury cover or backups, and let players go 'to get more opportunity' rather than having the real, hard conversation (the one that starts with 'you need to get better at...)

But to be specific:

• TDK = absolutely inflated contract at St Kilda, and if we were smart we would never have let it get this far.
• SOS = completely stuffed up how we managed him; salary, position, personal management, everything. Should still be a Blue, and would be if not for gross mismanagement, and we all know it
• Kennedy = see SOS.
• Martin = just played in a grand final, so he is on the list
• Dow = was good enough to be an injury reserve for us when we made a prelim final. Hard to judge his St Kilda form because he missed this year due to an unlucky infection, but if he was at Carlton he absolutely could have played when Walsh was injured
• Fisher = likely would have played every game for us this year, given our injuries and lack of depth.
• Owies = had he just repeated his 2024 form would have been our second leading goal kicker this year. We desperately lacked goal-kickers. Struggling while adjusting to play for a 1-22 West Coast team means a lot less than what he has previously shown
• O'Brien = his numbers and stats were tracking ahead of Ed Richards until we (for no apparent reason) benched him and consigned him to oblivion. Baffling mismanagement. Subsequently lost a lot of drive and quit AFL
• Plowman = he was a serviceable, versatile club man. We should have kept him around even as an injury backup.
• Carroll = also injured this year, lets wait and see. He was fine as an injury backup
• Honey = just player churn and has been replaced by equivalents in White, Young, etc. Just seems pointless to churn rookie listers rather than building something properly.

Cuningham and Marchbank = bodies may have finally given up, which imo is all the more reason to keep the others around.

But the thing is, individually you can look at any decision here and it is justifiable, but the point of list management is not to spend 10 years waiting for a competitive team, then lose 17 players in their prime in two years, leaving your team back 'rebuilding' - aka up shit creek with a hole in your canoe, and then considering trading your paddle for something that will hopefully (but no guarantees) fill the hole.

Zac F…isher, don’t want to imagine a team where he’s playing every game for us.
That was very good offload to NMFC (who would be regretting their investment in a flaky player).

JSOS = mis-management, don’t think so. Daddy was pulling the strings to orchestrate that game.

 

[BlueTongue]

Yep, 100% . He's a mature, versatile player who is a key part of our group. We should have had him locked away last year.

Instead, we did this:

‘I’ll get a call’: Jack Silvagni yet to open contract talks as Blue reborn after 600-day return

‘I’ll get a call’: Free agent’s waiting game as Blue blood reborn after 600-day return

www.foxsports.com.au

Option 1 (above): "Hey, we know you are coming back from an ACL and moving to a new position that you haven't played before, but we can't offer you a contract yet. We have to wait and see whether TDK wants to sign for a million dollars a year first, and then we might be able to fit you in. But as soon as he lets us know, we can maybe have a chat. We know you'll sign because you are a Silvagni, and you don't really have a position and you have been injured, so just hang around and we'll probably come back and sign you. Or not, if you get injured again, as happened with your mates (DC and Marchy and Martin). But we probably will, just don't go anywhere, right"

vs

Option 2: "Hey, we know you are coming back from an ACL, but we want you to know that we value you and see you as a long-term part of this club and future. This is probably your last big deal so we're going to give you a fair offer for four years, that will take you through until you are 32, and get this sorted before the season starts so you can focus on getting your body right, learning a new position, and being part of this club forever".

Let's face it, we treated him the way a high school quarterback treats the bookish, nerdy girl who lives next door - like a second choice. He then showed up at the ball looking pretty damn fine and Collingwood and others showed a genuine interest in him for the player he is, and of course he took that offer.

Meanwhile, we can barely put out 23 players next year, let alone the 35-odd we need in the squad to compete. But hey, Liam Reidy, come on down!

It is either incompetence or ego but it is ruining the club. Can't wait for another 10 year rebuild to start...

I can only assume it was that Ass-Hat Lloyd the ****ed that up.

 

[Beyond Blue]

The premier has 5 small/Medium forwards in Cameron, Lohman, Rayner, Bailey, AhChee that are better than our best small/medium forward in Motlop.. This alone explains a lot.

Williams is our best small forward currently, but your point is still correct. I’d take any of those Brisbane smalls (and McCarthy who missed both flags due to injury) ahead of any of our small forwards.

Geelong, Collingwood and Hawthorn also have an awesome crop of small/medium forwards. It’s a huge failing of our list and recruiting guys that they have not been able to get any real quality through the door.

 

[SurreyBlue]

It seems to me the supporters have become scared to take risks and are happy to just keep going back to the well and top up with picks.

IMO, if Butters can be gotten - go for it with all gun's blazing.
Imagine a midfield with Butters, Walsh, Cerra, Cripps and Smith, Walker pushing through. Just pure inside/outside, run, carry and devastating.

Our coaches wouldn't know how to deal with it all.

 

[Bamboo Harvester]

Zac F…isher, don’t want to imagine a team where he’s playing every game for us.
That was very good offload to NMFC (who would be regretting their investment in a flaky player).

Apparently looking to request a trade back to WA for family reasons

 

[SurreyBlue]

Apparently looking to request a trade back to WA for family reasons

Good luck to Fish. I've always admired the way he goes about it. Gives it his all.

 

[DangerousD]

It does seem unfair, its gone from being a free hit to now if the rumours are factual that we will have to effectively overpay and use multiple first round picks to acquire something that previously was a gift. We have obviously committed to Cody so will get it done regardless, but in future you will have to seriously question if it is worth it or not.

We were more than happy as a club and a fan base to trade 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder to get our hands on pick 3 for Smith, what’s the difference if we had to do the same thing for Walker?

 

[carlton_99]

We were more than happy as a club and a fan base to trade 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder to get our hands on pick 13 for Smith, what’s the difference if we had to do the same thing for Walker?

I assume it's because other teams have been able to get their highly rated father-sons and academy prospects for picks in the 30s and 40s.

 

[DangerousD]

I assume it's because other teams have been able to get their highly rated father-sons and academy prospects for picks in the 30s and 40s.

More referencing the posters who think it’ll be impossible and we will miss out, yet we paid the equivalent of close to pick 1 in points for Smith.

 

[carlton_99]

More referencing the posters who think it’ll be impossible and we will miss out, yet we paid the equivalent of close to pick 1 in points for Smith.

Yeh that makes sense. But it does all depend on these changes the AFL are going to introduce. If they change the points again and get rid of the discount it would make it more difficult.

 

[marcmurphy3]

I'm ok paying two 1sts for Cody. No issue.

Problem is if our natural first + other first we acquire arent enough. We will either need to massively overpay to move up the board or miss out all together. Could easily cost 3 1sts.

The AFL want clubs to pay fair value and not trade away 1st rounders that should be used to match bids. Fair. But you still need to make it realistic and moving into the top 5-6 picks if you dont have a natural selection there is just not possible in alot of drafts. Either that or you pay massive overs.

 

[GoBlues!]

It does seem unfair, its gone from being a free hit to now if the rumours are factual that we will have to effectively overpay and use multiple first round picks to acquire something that previously was a gift. We have obviously committed to Cody so will get it done regardless, but in future you will have to seriously question if it is worth it or not.

Going forward it’s going to be unfair and affect every club that has a highly rated F/S candidate in the top 2 or 3.

It’s unfortunate timing that in the first year the new rules come in our club probably has the highest rated F/S that I can recall.

On the positive side, at least we still have the opportunity to pick up a gun player.

 

[The Bighouse]

Apparently looking to request a trade back to WA for family reasons

With Logue (another bust for them)?

If North can get a deal they would jump you’d think. Been duped in that deal.

ZF would likely have to take a snip if we wants a move home, can’t see any clubs clambering for him - though he did have a good game vs WCE / 4 goals.

 

[GoBlues!]

I'm ok paying two 1sts for Cody. No issue.

Problem is if our natural first + other first we acquire arent enough. We will either need to massively overpay to move up the board or miss out all together. Could easily cost 3 1sts.

The AFL want clubs to pay fair value and not trade away 1st rounders that should be used to match bids. Fair. But you still need to make it realistic to and moving into the top 5-6 picks if you dont have a natural selection there is just not possible in alot of drafts.

The end result in those cases will be that the 2 picks used to get the bid player might seem fair but the total currency used to aquire those picks will be way overs.

Yeah I don’t see the logic of restricting it to two picks for every F/S selection without any consideration of where that player might get bid on.

It’s not a big deal if the F/S gets bid on mid to late round 1.

But in the rare event a F/S gets bid on at pick 1 or 2, what’s the problem if two mid first rounders and an early second rounder are used to match the bid. Making a team convert those three picks into two early R1 picks achieves what exactly?

 

[Blue1980]

Williams, Cerra, Saad...

With the right approach, I have full confidence we can.

Thats why I said 2020 or so, when we had at least got to mediocre level, not green shoots bolton 2 win years.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Thats why I said 2020 or so, when we had at least got to mediocre level, not green shoots bolton 2 win years.

We're not going to have a 2 win year in 2027 come on...

All FA will cost overs unless you're in the flag contention spot. There's nothing that can be done about that.

Just need to make the right choices. But it is doable.

 

[Garters]

Couldn’t agree more .. how many of that list have gone on to get a game at any decent club? Apart from Martin no one .. they’re all playing local footy or struggling to get a game at st Kilda or north Melbourne.

Apart from our top end talent we overrated our list big time in 2022 2023

Last sentence spot on. And a lot of warning signs that were flashing red that were ignored.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Yeah I don’t see the logic of restricting it to two picks for every F/S selection without any consideration of where that player might get bid on.

It’s not a big deal if the F/S gets bid on mid to late round 1.

But in the rare event a F/S gets bid on at pick 1 or 2, what’s the problem if two mid first rounders and an early second rounder are used to match the bid. Making a team convert those three picks into two early R1 picks achieves what exactly?

the theory would be that if you can’t trade up close to the pick than that shows how valuable that pick truly is, hence paying fair value

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Matching with two picks is really only a big concern for a bid at #1 which rarely happens or #2 which is difficult but not extreme.

#1 = 3000 = 2700 to match
Options
2 + 41 = 2701
3 + 27 = 2711
4 + 20 = 2719
5 + 16
6 + 13
7 + 11
8 + 10
9 + 9 would work but obviously can't be done

#2 = 2481 = 2233 to match
3 + 51 = 2235
4 + 38
5 + 30
6 + 25
7 + 21
8 + 19
9 + 17
10 + 15
Pick 11 if discount drops to 5% you would need to add pick 10

#3 = 2178 = 1961 to match
4 = 1962
5 + 44 = 1962
6 + 36
7 + 31
8 + 27
9 + 24
10 + 22
11 + 17 (5% disc)
12 + 15
13 + 14

 

[The Bighouse]

the theory would be that if you can’t trade up close to the pick than that shows how valuable that pick truly is, hence paying fair value

There is no fair value in paying 2 x high 1st rounders for a draftee that is unproven at AFL level.

Top echelon don’t get that in trades.

Just make it a match and move along. If the club gets an advantage, so be it, swings & roundabouts and luck of the draw.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I'm ok paying two 1sts for Cody. No issue.

Problem is if our natural first + other first we acquire arent enough. We will either need to massively overpay to move up the board or miss out all together. Could easily cost 3 1sts.

The AFL want clubs to pay fair value and not trade away 1st rounders that should be used to match bids. Fair. But you still need to make it realistic and moving into the top 5-6 picks if you dont have a natural selection there is just not possible in alot of drafts. Either that or you pay massive overs.

Next years draft is supposed to be stacked, with Tassie entering the draft in 2027 its the last chance for clubs to draft at the pointy end, the other clubs are going to be very reluctant to trade picks inside the top 10 so it might actually not be possible for us to trade up to get a top 5 pick.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

There is no fair value in paying 2 x high 1st rounders for a draftee that is unproven at AFL level.

Top echelon don’t get that in trades.

Just make it a match and move along. If the club gets an advantage, so be it, swings & roundabouts and luck of the draw.

Then why wouldn’t clubs holding those high picks just trade them for those two firsts?

Personally I’d just say match with two picks and any deficit comes with a 100% tax.
The advantage Brisbane has got, Collingwood had and GC will has resulted in clubs winning premierships and keeping them up the ladder way past they would naturally be (unless they have Geelong type ability) it’s just too big to ignore

 

[Blue Pulse]

Yep, 100% . He's a mature, versatile player who is a key part of our group. We should have had him locked away last year.

Instead, we did this:

‘I’ll get a call’: Jack Silvagni yet to open contract talks as Blue reborn after 600-day return

‘I’ll get a call’: Free agent’s waiting game as Blue blood reborn after 600-day return

www.foxsports.com.au

Option 1 (above): "Hey, we know you are coming back from an ACL and moving to a new position that you haven't played before, but we can't offer you a contract yet. We have to wait and see whether TDK wants to sign for a million dollars a year first, and then we might be able to fit you in. But as soon as he lets us know, we can maybe have a chat. We know you'll sign because you are a Silvagni, and you don't really have a position and you have been injured, so just hang around and we'll probably come back and sign you. Or not, if you get injured again, as happened with your mates (DC and Marchy and Martin). But we probably will, just don't go anywhere, right"

vs

Option 2: "Hey, we know you are coming back from an ACL, but we want you to know that we value you and see you as a long-term part of this club and future. This is probably your last big deal so we're going to give you a fair offer for four years, that will take you through until you are 32, and get this sorted before the season starts so you can focus on getting your body right, learning a new position, and being part of this club forever".

Let's face it, we treated him the way a high school quarterback treats the bookish, nerdy girl who lives next door - like a second choice. He then showed up at the ball looking pretty damn fine and Collingwood and others showed a genuine interest in him for the player he is, and of course he took that offer.

Meanwhile, we can barely put out 23 players next year, let alone the 35-odd we need in the squad to compete. But hey, Liam Reidy, come on down!

It is either incompetence or ego but it is ruining the club. Can't wait for another 10 year rebuild to start...

I believe the club's administration and board have their problems and things could be run better, hopefully Wright and Davies can make some sense of it and at least bring in a solid foundation. If things are running well on the field, everything is rosy on and off the field and deficiencies are covered over.

Have a year like this one, and it shows where people stand and who is standing beside you when things turn to . For too long Carlton have recruited guys who feel entitled to their position in the side and have rested on their laurels with no consequences. This needs to change for us to achieve success.

With regards to Silvagni, I believe the "Hatred of the club" disease has spread through the family, this has come from family member who played this season with Ben. I think it is really petty that you can't roll up to a 30 year GF reunion, but that's just my opinion.

We need to move past the entitlement and reward effort and consistency.