No Oppo Supporters Tanner Bruhn - charges formally dropped

[cats_09]

My experience with BF is that shutting down a conversation results in it spilling over into other threads.

Kind of like the political backlash in the US at the moment - trying to shut down certain conversations just results in it hijacking other discussions.

Far better to treat posters like adults and let them talk things out provided it is done respectfully.

100% the bolded

We've seen a bit of chat in the draft/trade thread in regards to Bruhn and how he could potentially be seen as a new addition next year once matters are officially finalised

The good thing is discussion in that thread we've been adult enough to generally keep our talk in that thread team related. With the benefit of this thread is we've been a bit more open with the nature of the discussion while still trying to monitor to ensure things don't venture into areas we shouldn't move into - and it does keep that discussion locked in here

And being a no oppo thread has helped keep things on track - closing the thread while there still feels like there's a want to talk about things will see that discussion venture into other threads


I'm sure that things will start to die down again in coming weeks once it's all official, then we'll look at locking the thread and moving onto the next chapter rather than rehashing old stuff

 

[dudusmaximus]

Yeah, wouldn't go that far.

There are no winners here.

i agree. It just means that the Prosecution felt they couldn't prosecute the case (for various reasons) to a successful conviction. Unfortunately, the asterisk against him will remain.

I hope he makes up (for himself, the Club and the Supporters) by having a helluva career from here on in and makes a Model Citizen out of himself.

 

[dudusmaximus]

Welcome to the legal system

Someone became a Prez exploiting the delay.

 

[dudusmaximus]

so by that you mean you have info that the legal system does not - or are you suggesting that you have info that now that the criminal case has been "dismissed" that there is a civil component to play out in the courts.

I assume (like in the US), Civil means monetary recompense (i.e. no prison time) and the burden of proof is a little less. If there's perjury involved (an actual crime with prison time), it is in their best interest to let this slide (i.e no Civil case initiated). Be careful what they wish for, I guess.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer

 

[noclashjumpers]

Granted, I've only read the recent info about the situation in question, but notwithstanding the lack of a criminal case to answer, the circumstances that have been reported leave me more than a little uncomfortable. Assuming of course that reporting is correct (legality aside) the behaviour is pretty gross.

It doesn't speak too kindly to his character, and by extension the sort of individual I'd personally want representing the club.
Misguided or not, I've always taken some pride that the players we bring into the club, however far their career goes, are by and large, respectful good natured people. Now that doesn't mean individuals aren't prone to errors of judgement; everyone makes mistakes. But all mistakes aren't equal. Some are genuine missteps, while others are an insight into problematic character flaws.

Now I'm fully aware I'm in no position to make a call as to which category this falls into, and I'm more than willing to be corrected if evidence points the other way, but a life experience gut feeling suggests to me that this unfortunately falls into the latter.

 

[MisterMarcus]

Granted, I've only read the recent info about the situation in question, but notwithstanding the lack of a criminal case to answer, the circumstances that have been reported leave me more than a little uncomfortable. Assuming of course that reporting is correct (legality aside) the behaviour is pretty gross.

It doesn't speak too kindly to his character, and by extension the sort of individual I'd personally want representing the club.
Misguided or not, I've always taken some pride that the players we bring into the club, however far their career goes, are by and large, respectful good natured people. Now that doesn't mean individuals aren't prone to errors of judgement; everyone makes mistakes. But all mistakes aren't equal. Some are genuine missteps, while others are an insight into problematic character flaws.

Now I'm fully aware I'm in no position to make a call as to which category this falls into, and I'm more than willing to be corrected if evidence points the other way, but a life experience gut feeling suggests to me that this unfortunately falls into the latter.

If the argument is basically "He's a scumbag for soliciting sex in this way"......well, he's already missed an entire season.

Essentially like the tribunal rubbing you out for 25 rounds.

Surely that's punishment enough?

 

[iameviljez]

Granted, I've only read the recent info about the situation in question, but notwithstanding the lack of a criminal case to answer, the circumstances that have been reported leave me more than a little uncomfortable. Assuming of course that reporting is correct (legality aside) the behaviour is pretty gross.

It doesn't speak too kindly to his character, and by extension the sort of individual I'd personally want representing the club.
Misguided or not, I've always taken some pride that the players we bring into the club, however far their career goes, are by and large, respectful good natured people. Now that doesn't mean individuals aren't prone to errors of judgement; everyone makes mistakes. But all mistakes aren't equal. Some are genuine missteps, while others are an insight into problematic character flaws.

Now I'm fully aware I'm in no position to make a call as to which category this falls into, and I'm more than willing to be corrected if evidence points the other way, but a life experience gut feeling suggests to me that this unfortunately falls into the latter.

Let's assume the best plausible outcome - he, along with a friend, paid a woman for sex and it backfired.

That, to my mind, isn't a cause for punishment by the club. He hasn't taken anything performance enhancing, he hasn't (by this scenario) hurt anyone, he's just paid for some dirty sordid sex very late at night.

Frankly, that's none of our business and I'm quite sure that plenty of grubbier things go on with AFL players all the time, with none of us any the wiser.

 

[D BRIDGE]

I've always taken some pride that the players we bring into the club, however far their career goes, are by and large, respectful good natured people. Now that doesn't mean individuals aren't prone to errors of judgement; everyone makes mistakes. But all mistakes aren't equal. Some are genuine missteps, while others are an insight into problematic character flaws.

Bolded is outside looking in talk.

You have little idea what happens behind closed doors and if the doors were opened up for people to see in (like this current situation) I'm sure you'd be a little surprised at how naive you are.

It's all about the optics... If you don't see it = you are happy.

 

[iameviljez]

Essentially like the tribunal rubbing you out

Not sure if deliberate, but definitely funny.

 

[Hinkley29]

Granted, I've only read the recent info about the situation in question, but notwithstanding the lack of a criminal case to answer, the circumstances that have been reported leave me more than a little uncomfortable. Assuming of course that reporting is correct (legality aside) the behaviour is pretty gross.

It doesn't speak too kindly to his character, and by extension the sort of individual I'd personally want representing the club.
Misguided or not, I've always taken some pride that the players we bring into the club, however far their career goes, are by and large, respectful good natured people. Now that doesn't mean individuals aren't prone to errors of judgement; everyone makes mistakes. But all mistakes aren't equal. Some are genuine missteps, while others are an insight into problematic character flaws.

Now I'm fully aware I'm in no position to make a call as to which category this falls into, and I'm more than willing to be corrected if evidence points the other way, but a life experience gut feeling suggests to me that this unfortunately falls into the latter.

I generally agree with this.

It is going to be difficult to fully support him without feeling a bit dirty and conflicted about it.

It just seems like this has been a situation where there are no truly innocent parties involved. Ordinary humans tend to attract other ordinary humans.

Just because he is good at playing football and is on the list of the club I support doesn’t mean that I automatically throw my support behind him. In all honesty, and I know this is potentially unfair, but I would be more than happy if he rode off into the sunset and I didn’t have to deal with the conflicted feelings of him playing for the club that I love.

 

[noclashjumpers]

I generally agree with this.

It is going to be difficult to fully support him without feeling a bit dirty and conflicted about it.

It just seems like this has been a situation where there are no truly innocent parties involved. Ordinary humans tend to attract other ordinary humans.

Just because he is good at playing football and is on the list of the club I support doesn’t mean that I automatically throw my support behind him. In all honesty, and I know this is potentially unfair, but I would be more than happy if he rode off into the sunset and I didn’t have to deal with the conflicted feelings of him playing for the club that I love.

When he became a regular, my now 14 y/o daughter decided to get his number on her jumper. So when all this this happened, it was more than a little disappointing, for me and for her. But we were more than willing (given the emotional investment) to give him the benefit of the doubt.

And now that it's been 'resolved', the dust has settled in a place where my daughter, understandably feels pretty revolted by it all. So that's played heavily into my thoughts as well.... as it should.

As for those assuming I'm advocating the club punish him, I'm not. I'm simply suggesting that his fit at the club could be a square peg in a round hole situation.

Note the emphasis on 'could'. As I stated, there's a lot that I don't know, and I'm more than willing to be corrected. But in my experience, people that engage in this behaviour generally aren't people I care to spend time with and generally have attitudes towards women that I find disgraceful.

Am I saying that applies here? No, because I don't know him, nor the intricacies of the circumstance. I'm merely offering an opinion from a distance with what information we have.. like everyone else.

 

[Cataholic]

There's so little verified information that it's impossible to determine an informed opinion.

If he's guilty of some, or all, of the allegations made against him then it'd be best if the club cut its ties.

If he's innocent then I feel sorry for him because there'll be those who will condemn him anyhow.

At this point he has my qualified support purely on the basis that the club has stood by him, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say I trust they wouldn't have done so if they had any knowledge of guilt.

 

[randyzany]

I'll give Bruhn the benefit of the doubt in this incident. He's a reasonably handsome young chap so it's beyond me why he felt the need to resort to paying sex workers to get his rocks off. Not to mention the fact that he is sort of a minor celebrity because of his pro athlete status and therefore there would be plenty of groupies who would be willing to have sex with footballers like him for free, even ugly ones. lol. But I suspect it was more about the thrill and perhaps indulging in sex acts that straight edge women would never entertain.

Rest assured genuine rapists (99.9999%) can't help themselves but be recidivists and commit the crime again (a la Weinstein) because it's more about getting off the power they have over the victim than the actual sex.

So if he really is a rapist there are bound to be other female victims coming forward about his criminal predilections in the next few years.

If none come forward there's a good chance that all he is guilty of is bad judgment and stupidity. Hopefully he has learnt his lesson and never ever put himself in this foolhardy position again. If he wants to experiment and fool around with sex workers do it in the confines of a legal brothel where the chances of another sex worker trying to extort and blackmail him are next to nil.

 

[Kitcat]

The charges have been dropped. He has not been found guilty of anything, but he missed a whole season of work. Let's leave it at that and hope that he learns and lets his football do the talking.

 

[Vdubs]

I generally agree with this.

It is going to be difficult to fully support him without feeling a bit dirty and conflicted about it.

It just seems like this has been a situation where there are no truly innocent parties involved. Ordinary humans tend to attract other ordinary humans.

Just because he is good at playing football and is on the list of the club I support doesn’t mean that I automatically throw my support behind him. In all honesty, and I know this is potentially unfair, but I would be more than happy if he rode off into the sunset and I didn’t have to deal with the conflicted feelings of him playing for the club that I love.

Given our club has players who make a strong stand against violence towards and abuse of women, and that he has spent a year in hell, and that the club is still willing to take him on, I will accept that the charges are dropped and he was not declared guilty of anything.
If he did stuff up, you can almost guarantee that was it and will never recur.
We made a GF without any input from him, so it's not as if he is vital to our structure, yet here he is on our list-i think we should support him.

 

[Hinkley29]

We are all going to have a different opinion here. And they are all valid, no-one’s opinion is more valid than anyone else’s.

I am always going to be skeptical based on the info that has come out. At the very least he is guilty of a lack of judgement that casts a negative shadow on the club. And I have no faith that the club “sticking by him” is any reflection that he is crystal clear. For one thing, the club has a vested interest in him being able to play (he can help the team) and secondly the club could potentially be on shaky legal ground if they cut him loose without him being found guilty of anything. The club’s hands could be tied for all we know.

I appreciate the maturity with which this discussion has been conducted. It is a sensitive topic that could have gone sideways very easily (as we have seen elsewhere on this site). Well played cats fans.

 

[dudusmaximus]

First up, I commend you on both your thoughtful/nuanced posts. As a father of 2 young daughters, I'm conflicted as well.

Assuming of course that reporting is correct (legality aside) the behaviour is pretty gross.

When he became a regular, my now 14 y/o daughter decided to get his number on her jumper.

In the US, they've a phrase "Awful, but Lawful". Like others have touched on, soliciting/paying for s** is not illegal. Regarding the actual r*** allegation, the Prosecution withdrew their case (correct me if I'm wrong), with the Court signing off on it. He is presumed innocent as he wasn't found guilty (technicality or no technicality). Both the GFC and the AFL would not want to unfairly dismiss him over something he is presumed innocent of.

That said, both the GFC and the AFL would be wary of the brand damage this is doing. All female stakeholders (supporters, employees, VFLW/AFLW players etc.) probably are uneasy. I expect in due course he will issue a statement and/or front up to the Media saying that he made some bad choices and is focussed on turning a new leaf. He has and will continue to pay a heavy price for this (i.e. there's no coming back)

Unfortunately, the asterisk against him will remain.

I hope he makes up (for himself, the Club and the Supporters) by having a helluva career from here on in and makes a Model Citizen out of himself.

Our whole legal system is based on rehabilitating (i.e. second chances). I think we should afford him that chance.
Note: On a personal note, if your daughter is still outraged, she should mail that guernsey back to the club with a note explaining her conflict. The fact that she's weighing pros and cons on what is a complex societal issue shows that you've raised her well.

 

[Tony Barber]

Granted, I've only read the recent info about the situation in question, but notwithstanding the lack of a criminal case to answer, the circumstances that have been reported leave me more than a little uncomfortable. Assuming of course that reporting is correct (legality aside) the behaviour is pretty gross.

It doesn't speak too kindly to his character, and by extension the sort of individual I'd personally want representing the club.
Misguided or not, I've always taken some pride that the players we bring into the club, however far their career goes, are by and large, respectful good natured people. Now that doesn't mean individuals aren't prone to errors of judgement; everyone makes mistakes. But all mistakes aren't equal. Some are genuine missteps, while others are an insight into problematic character flaws.

Now I'm fully aware I'm in no position to make a call as to which category this falls into, and I'm more than willing to be corrected if evidence points the other way, but a life experience gut feeling suggests to me that this unfortunately falls into the latter.

I dont blame your daughter. Guys are a lot different from females.

If someone said to me, hey let's go to the strip club. I might say ok. Not usually but might. But never in a small town as a sportsman. Just no way.

Theres an article somewhere ( which I cant find) of the court hearing 2 weeks ago.
There was effectively a witness lying. Well it reads that way.

The woman in question and the guys were on camera all time during 'negotiations'.
They had sex in a car park and then she actually drove them home.

Let's see if someone can find the article.
It's all very suss. And it doesnt sound like the men did anything wrong other than being idiots.

 

[cats_09]

If anyone wants more insight into those articles - about halfway down the page on the following link

Might be best to keep that info in the following thread rather than spread across multiple locations on BF

Rumour - Rumors of cat player in big trouble

Except most other jurisdictions with comparable justice systems seem to manage just fine. As has been well shown already in this thread, Victoria is an outlier in it's overuse of suppression orders Other states use suppression orders regularly; especially when it involves vulnerable victims...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[randyzany]

Some posters on BF are pretty naive about what many (not all obviously some are family oriented men like GAJ and Paddy) male pro athletes get up to in their free time, they're absolutely no angels when it comes to dealing with the opposite sex, such as being unfaithful on multiple occasions to their partners and wives, partaking in orgies, etc..

Like I said pro athletes are sort of minor celebrities (major celebrities if they're superstars like GAS, GAJ, Paddy, etc..) and as such they have a whole bunch of groupies throwing themselves at them constantly.

What Bruhn got up to, assuming his version of events is the truth, is pretty tame by pro athlete standards. The mistake he made is getting involved with supposedly a very predatory dodgy individual who I suspect tried to extort him because of his celebrity status for her own financial gain.

 

[iameviljez]

Like I said pro athletes are sort of minor celebrities (major celebrities if they're superstars like GAS, GAJ, Paddy, etc..) and as such they have a whole bunch of groupies throwing themselves at them constantly.

There's a saying that every celebrity basically has their maturity frozen at the moment they become famous.

 

[allrighty]

If the law considers that the Accused is presumed innocent until proven guilty and if the prosecution fails to prove guilt, then Accused maintains the presumption of innocence. It is not grey according to the law.

But it is in the minds of those who want to presume guilt. As I said earlier it will live with him forever, whoever was
actually wrong.

 

[allrighty]

BigSemantics.com

Within the Nitpicking Pedants domain.

Found in the World Wide w***ers compartment of your favourite computing device.

My domain

 

[noclashjumpers]

I dont blame your daughter. Guys are a lot different from females.

If someone said to me, hey let's go to the strip club. I might say ok. Not usually but might. But never in a small town as a sportsman. Just no way.

Theres an article somewhere ( which I cant find) of the court hearing 2 weeks ago.
There was effectively a witness lying. Well it reads that way.

The woman in question and the guys were on camera all time during 'negotiations'.
They had sex in a car park and then she actually drove them home.

Let's see if someone can find the article.
It's all very suss. And it doesnt sound like the men did anything wrong other than being idiots.

For clarity, are you saying that attending a strip club is basically comparable to two men attending a strip club, then both of them subsequently approaching one woman to have s## with her in a car?

To quote dudusmaximus from a previous post, "Awful, but Lawful".

There also seems to be some reasoning floating around that simply because this 'probably' occurs all the time, including at our own club, that this somehow justifies the behaviour. That because this is to be expected, we should all be OK with it. An 'it's not illegal, so have at it' attitude.

To repeat myself from earlier on, "...in my experience, people that engage in this behaviour generally aren't people I care to spend time with and generally have attitudes towards women that I find disgraceful."

Again, does that apply to Bruhn? Maybe, I don't know enough to make that call.

And for the record, as a guy, I 100% agree with my daughter's position.

 

[TomsBulgingDisc]

Let's assume the best plausible outcome - he, along with a friend, paid a woman for sex and it backfired.

That, to my mind, isn't a cause for punishment by the club. He hasn't taken anything performance enhancing, he hasn't (by this scenario) hurt anyone, he's just paid for some dirty sordid sex very late at night.

Frankly, that's none of our business and I'm quite sure that plenty of grubbier things go on with AFL players all the time, with none of us any the wiser.

This 100%.