List Mgmt. 2025 List Management

[serial_thrilla]

 

[mattis117]

If 44 is worthless why would we trade it for a pick even more worthless?

I don't know lol. The whole thing doesn't make sense! That's the point.

 

[mattis117]

Please, for the love of God, never do ANY investing outside leaving money in the bank

Don't insult my intelligence snuff. I happen to be doing very well for myself thanks.

 

[Johnny Dalmas]

You know good ol' Dodo from Essington had to win every trade.

7,703

Let's see what happens to 19 et.al. by the end of trade week, eh?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Don't insult my intelligence snuff. I happen to be doing very well for myself thanks.

Well mate I'm sorry but multiple times you are arguing it's ok for Walls to throw away draft capital because of what he must think of the draft. Your arguments are ridiculous and non-sensical. If you think you can get what you need at a cheaper price, you still maximise the savings, you dont piss the savings against the wall(sy).

 

[Alfonz]

I'm only catching up on the news now ... there surely has to be something missing from this supposed deal like a future pick that comes our way. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

And people raging at Walls ... when did he take over? I think he has done all of the below, and honestly it isn't nearly as bad as people are making out.

Jackson ... I had an issue with how much we paid, but with hindsight it has been fine. Maybe the unnecessary F2 could have been used to get someone decent?
Bolton ... I thought this was fair (maybe in the minority), and getting lucky with Reid being available makes it a good value trade.
Clark ... good value trade.
What we received for Schultz, Lobb, Logue, Tucker, Henry ... I think all of these were good value trades in our favour.
Acres we got nothing, but meh.
JOM/Meek ... I don't like this one.

Has he done anything else?

 

[David Bubb]

I understand not being happy about the trade, but I just think the level of melting taking place surely isn't justified? We haven't just traded pick 2 for Lachie Weller, we haven't just traded three firsts and completely ****ed our future for Tim Kelly

11

Tim Kelly

Age

31

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.6

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

19.9

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.6

4star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

, we've lost a second round pick in a shit draft in a trade that will be forgotten about by round 1. I'm not excusing it, but christ, I can feel the steam coming off a few computers and that is surely not justifiable

 

[freo_leo29]

Let's see what happens to 19 et.al. by the end of trade week, eh?

Thats the issue, we traded away any of our points that even give us an outlook for upgrading that pick

The only thing that could really happen now is some player from nowhere


Unless we tap into futures but if we were happy to do that then we would have just done that to upgrade 33


What a shitshow

 

[Superkoops]

I want to huff this copium but its been reported over 5 hours ago, if it was changing then something would have leaked from any of the 3 camps

There have been deals like this in the past that have fallen through overnight. It is more than feasible that media have only got 90% of the pick swaps and the bits missing are some future picks. Remember there is the ability to swap 2026 and 2027 futures.

I provided an example of our own JOM deal that only came out after paperwork was lodged and a mins after trade period had ended that there was a future pick involved for Freo.

If no change then there must a goodwill part to this that maybe another pick swap happens late for us.

I don’t know but the element of passing on 44/50 > 46 makes zero sense.

 

[freo_leo29]

I understand not being happy about the trade, but I just think the level of melting taking place surely isn't justified? We haven't just traded pick 2 for Lachie Weller, we haven't just traded three firsts and completely ****ed our future for Tim Kelly, we've lost a second round pick in a shit draft in a trade that will be forgotten about by round 1

It's because the trade makes 0 sense, its illogical

Ofc its going to be a big talking point

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I understand not being happy about the trade, but I just think the level of melting taking place surely isn't justified? We haven't just traded pick 2 for Lachie Weller, we haven't just traded three firsts and completely ****ed our future for Tim Kelly, we've lost a second round pick in a shit draft in a trade that will be forgotten about by round 1. I'm not excusing it, but christ, I can feel the steam coming off a few computers and that is surely not justifiable

Like I've said a few times, my steam now is more at people justifying the trade rather than calling it for what it is

 

[guidodp15]

s_wd6 I do not understand how you can read the absolutely moronic takes on reddit and keep your cool.

i lose my shit so often, type a comment then delete it. The anger slipped through the cracks a few times and surpised i havent been banned. One of the mods likes me though

 

[s_wd6]

I understand not being happy about the trade, but I just think the level of melting taking place surely isn't justified? We haven't just traded pick 2 for Lachie Weller, we haven't just traded three firsts and completely ****ed our future for Tim Kelly, we've lost a second round pick in a shit draft in a trade that will be forgotten about by round 1. I'm not excusing it, but christ, I can feel the steam coming off a few computers and that is surely not justifiable

Just join in. Ride the lows and ride the highs. It’s cathartic

 

[maccamk]

Firmly believe there is still a bit to play out with this trade. JB has just as many hands over this as Wallsy. We have a team not an individual over there.

 

[s_wd6]

There have been deals like this in the past that have fallen through overnight. It is more than feasible that media have only got 90% of the pick swaps and the bits missing are some future picks. Remember there is the ability to swap 2026 and 2027 futures.

I provided an example of our own JOM deal that only came out after paperwork was lodged and a mins after trade period had ended that there was a future pick involved for Freo.

If no change then there must a goodwill part to this that maybe another pick swap happens late for us.

If don’t know but the element of passing on 44/50 > 46 makes zero sense.

That was a F4 though.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Sorry, there's nothing new to talk about anyway so I'm going to continue on. I want to use one of the beneficiaries of our trade as an example.

Brisbane have a list everyone is envious of. They have been given an absolute leg up in terms of F/S and Academy picks yet not ****ing once in the last 6 years have they done anything but nickle and dime the ever loving shit of the whole system. They extorted Dogs on the Dunkley trade, they extorted WC holding back 2 for Allen making sure they paid something reasonable (by getting us to chip in) for a bloke who is one knock away from concussion and they have squeezed every last point out of the system to get things done.

Geelong have literally built prolonged success on screwing clubs every trade they can.

It is completely unacceptable to throw away draft capital in a professional competition and if you dont think it's a big deal then I dont know what to say.

 

[King Huskii]

Word on the street is Fred doesn’t want to leave Perth and doesn’t want to play for weagles

This is 100% true

Maybe why we have been generous with the eagles in this deal.

 

[Cobbler]

Like I've said a few times, my steam now is more at people justifying the trade rather than calling it for what it is

Agree.

Really it comes down to 2 things now:

A) This is the deal. Regardless of McVee for 23 it is a stinker and just purely makes no sense.

B) There’s more to it. Either directly or indirectly.

I have to chose B. Not just to be optimistic, it’s just that option A truly makes no sense on so many levels that even if it seemed ‘fair’ there was no need to rush and help 2 teams that could otherwise have just done the deal between themselves with the currency they each held.

 

[mattis117]

Well mate I'm sorry but multiple times you are arguing it's ok for Walls to throw away draft capital because of what he must think of the draft. Your arguments are ridiculous and non-sensical. If you think you can get what you need at a cheaper price, you still maximise the savings, you dont piss the savings against the wall(sy).

No, this is the part that everyone misses. I'm not arguing for a position, I'm arguing against a position. I'm fine with sometimes arguing positions that I don't actually believe in for the sake of testing other people's arguments.

There are no logical flaws in my arguments because I understand the difference between known fact and assumption.

If we state that x has no value, then giving away x for free is meaningless. That doesn't mean x has no value, it is a supposition, an assumption made to bridge gaps in data.

I offer no opinion on the value of the trade. What I am doing is highlighting that there are assumptions that are being made to judge the trade as bad, and there are logical flaws in those assumptions.

You keep focussing on justification. There is no justification happening from me. I'm arguing logic, not defending what has happened.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Agree.

Really it comes down to 2 things now:

A) This is the deal. Regardless of McVee for 23 it is a stinker and just purely makes no sense.

B) There’s more to it. Either directly or indirectly.

I have to chose B. Not just to be optimistic, it’s just that option A truly makes no sense on so many levels that even if it seemed ‘fair’ there was no need to rush and help 2 teams that could otherwise have just done the deal between themselves with the currency they each held.

Yeah, it's the most nonsensical trade I have ever seen Freo do all things considered. If Cal comes out tomorrow and revises it I'll admit to being a turkey and create a twitter account to redirect my rage

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

Maybe the quality of player later is so rubbish this draft that our pick 33 isnt a pick 33 this year. Maybe its closer to the quality of a pick 60. So the list managers are lining up pick value to player availability with it.

I think this is the best devil's advocate argument for the pick swap I've seen. I'd practically treat it as axiomatic that if you trade down AND lose points with no future picks/players coming your way, there's no mathematical way that results in a won trade. But maybe it's the case that 12, 19 and 23 are all in about the same realm and 33 is in a completely different realm.

Chris25 As the resident draft expert, do you think this draft is a unique case where the pick swap as currently reported makes more sense than usual? Or is it still as bad as it seems on paper?

 

[s_wd6]

Sorry, there's nothing new to talk about anyway so I'm going to continue on. I want to use one of the beneficiaries of our trade as an example.

Brisbane have a list everyone is envious of. They have been given an absolute leg up in terms of F/S and Academy picks yet not ****ing once in the last 6 years have they done anything but nickle and dime the ever loving shit of the whole system. They extorted Dogs on the Dunkley trade, they extorted WC holding back 2 for Allen making sure they paid something reasonable (by getting us to chip in) for a bloke who is one knock away from concussion and they have squeezed every last point out of the system to get things done.

Geelong have literally built prolonged success on screwing clubs every trade they can.

It is completely unacceptable to throw away draft capital in a professional competition and if you dont think it's a big deal then I dont know what to say.

People love to bring up that dealing in good faith will benefit us by keeping good relations with other clubs but those two **** over clubs in every single trade yet still manage to get in whoever they’re chasing.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I think this is the best devil's advocate argument for the pick swap I've seen. I'd practically treat it as axiomatic that if you trade down AND lose points with no future picks/players coming your way, there's no mathematical way that results in a won trade. But maybe it's the case that 12, 19 and 23 are all in about the same realm and 33 is in a completely different realm.

Chris25 As the resident draft expert, do you think this draft is a unique case where the pick swap as currently reported makes more sense than usual? Or is it still as bad as it seems on paper?

To jump in (because Chris thinks I'm being way over the top), I will secede to this argument if any other pick trade this year is for less points. The rest of the trade period will let us know if this argument is fair

 

[Dockeroo]

Sorry, there's nothing new to talk about anyway so I'm going to continue on. I want to use one of the beneficiaries of our trade as an example.

Brisbane have a list everyone is envious of. They have been given an absolute leg up in terms of F/S and Academy picks yet not ****ing once in the last 6 years have they done anything but nickle and dime the ever loving shit of the whole system. They extorted Dogs on the Dunkley trade, they extorted WC holding back 2 for Allen making sure they paid something reasonable (by getting us to chip in) for a bloke who is one knock away from concussion and they have squeezed every last point out of the system to get things done.

Geelong have literally built prolonged success on screwing clubs every trade they can.

It is completely unacceptable to throw away draft capital in a professional competition and if you dont think it's a big deal then I dont know what to say.

This goes to the heart of my frustration really.
We can and probably will improve this off season. In reality all that matters is how much we improve RELATIVE TO OUR OPPOSITION.
I sometimes feel like no one actually considers this at all.
The question is are Geelong, Brisbane, suns, hawks, Adelaide etc improving by (a) more, (b) the same, or (c) less than we are?

I’m actually astonished by Brisbane’s hard nosed attitude in the Starcevich deal. There’s no letting up there, no giving an inch. That’s probably part of the reason why they are going for a threepeat and we have won just 7 finals in our entire existence though.

 

[CaseySibosadoHOF]

To jump in (because Chris thinks I'm being way over the top), I will secede to this argument if any other pick trade this year is for less points. The rest of the trade period will let us know if this argument is fair

From a cursory read (Chris would know significantly more, and from memory he hated where our 1st sat), 12 feels like it's now emerged as a genuine tier above 19 and 23 as picks, so I don't believe that devil's advocate position. I kinda use Harley Barker as a test. He did his ACL a while back, so by definition there's no new info to change your opinion on him unless he's bombing interviews. So the more players move above him, the more alright prospects I imagine there are.

Our pick right now feels a level above Barker (even though I actually like him as a prospect). 19 and 23 don't.

 

[Stinky Lomax]

This goes to the heart of my frustration really.
We can and probably will improve this off season. In reality all that matters is how much we improve RELATIVE TO OUR OPPOSITION.
I sometimes feel like no one actually considers this at all.
The question is are Geelong, Brisbane, suns, hawks, Adelaide etc improving by (a) more, (b) the same, or (c) less than we are?

I’m actually astonished by Brisbane’s hard nosed attitude in the Starcevich deal. There’s no letting up there, no giving an inch. That’s probably part of the reason why they are going for a threepeat and we have won just 7 finals in our entire existence though.

Currently we are just above average in every metric you can measure a club with. On field & off, although Snuff might disagree with our off field. Ie trading.