Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[_Mike_]

Opposition supporters coming to troll , you have been warned

 

[Dogs Rule]

Hate to tell you but we played Freo with everyone bar Flea available.

Exactly, but hey, our list will just naturally get better and we'll shoot right up the ladder next year. Why haven't other clubs thought of that?

 

[Foxman98]

Hate to tell you but we played Freo with everyone bar Flea available.

Correct we had a poor game and lost by 2 and a half goals (Flea kicks the 2 sitters Garcia missed)

 

[Foxman98]

Exactly, but hey, our list will just naturally get better and we'll shoot right up the ladder next year. Why haven't other clubs thought of that?

We had 10 players under 50 games in that game

 

[weltschmerz]

Who’s to say that can’t be improved? Same for our boys.

Plenty of people saying Busslinger will never improve.

 

[St 07]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I've heard that Saints renegotiated Jones' contract to match our offer and he's decided to stay

Ffs, we can't land any superstars

 

[dogwatch]

Alex Keath was a pretty good addition there

Yes he was but you're missing the point. He was one of many players we acquired in their late 20s to fill the gaps.

He arrived aged 28 and had 2-3 good years before falling away rapidly in his final year.

I'm talking about investing in key defenders for the long term. The discussion came up in reference to Dannnnnn's comment :

At some point, if everybody is shocked every year at the value of key defenders (e.g., Silvagni, Aleer, Zerk-Thatcher, Ratugolea, McKay...) they probably need to get with the program and realize that it's just an incredibly expensive position. If you want to fill it you've gotta pay up big.

It has seemed for a long time that we've sought to go the cheaper options or the ready made options (as long as they don't cost too much). We're now seeing that ready made ones at the height of their powers are in short supply. So they cost a lot.

An unspoken question in all this is whether Bevo has had a hand in what has played out. He doesn't seem to rate defence as highly as other areas, or if he does, he demonstrates it in strange ways. The one A-grade defender he had given to him by his drafting team (in just his third year as coach) he converted to a forward. That move has been a great success so it would be ungracious to say he shouldn't have done it, but it may be indicative of his priorities. Did he influence the hand of the WB drafters over the next 5 years? (Don't all coaches have some say in their club's draft targets?)

Getting back to my point ... we need to be investing in longer term options as KPDs. Keath at 28 was a good get but he was never that long term (8-10 years) investment we needed. The fact that we didn't draft any young KPDs (or trade for high quality KPDs in their early prime say 23-26yo) for so long means we have a half a decade of neglect to make up. If you just get 28-30 year olds you can only count on 2-3 years of peak performance. Then you have to start again, possibly paying a hefty price each time.

Drafting Busslinger was an overdue step in the right direction but that was in 2022. He may finally become a regular selection next year. Or if not 2026, then 2027. Assuming he makes the grade we will then have him at the heart of our defence for the next 7-8 years.

 

[lachy]

Maybe you should quote the offending posts rather than imply that this board is full of posters who can't "understand the basic concept...". These generalisations are pretty poor to be honest.

Given I said posters who do understand the basic concept, your actually the one saying this board is full of posters who can't understand, never said at all by me. Also, are you saying generalisations saying posters who do not by into the hyperventilation that the club is doing nothing are clearly accepting mediocrity as Bulldog Muscle posted?

 

[weltschmerz]

Yes he was but you're missing the point. He was one of many players we acquired in their late 20s to fill the gaps.

He arrived aged 28 and had 2-3 good years before falling away rapidly in his final year.

I'm talking about investing in key defenders for the long term. The discussion came up in reference to Dannnnnn's comment :


It has seemed for a long time that we've sought to go the cheaper options or the ready made options (as long as they don't cost too much). We're now seeing that ready made ones at the height of their powers are in short supply. So they cost a lot.

An unspoken question in all this is whether Bevo has had a hand in what has played out. He doesn't seem to rate defence as highly as other areas, or if he does, he demonstrates it in strange ways. The one A-grade defender he had given to him by his drafting team (in just his third year as coach) he converted to a forward. That move has been a great success so it would be ungracious to say he shouldn't have done it, but it may be indicative of his priorities. Did he influence the hand of the WB drafters over the next 5 years? (Don't all coaches have some say in their club's draft targets?)

Getting back to my point ... we need to be investing in longer term options as KPDs. Keath at 28 was a good get but he was never that long term (8-10 years) investment we needed. The fact that we didn't draft any young KPDs (or trade for high quality KPDs in their early prime say 23-26yo) for so long means we have a half a decade of neglect to make up. If you just get 28-30 year olds you can only count on 2-3 years of peak performance. Then you have to start again, possibly paying a hefty price each time.

Drafting Busslinger was an overdue step in the right direction but that was in 2022. He may finally become a regular selection next year. Or if not 2026, then 2027. Assuming he makes the grade we will then have him at the heart of our defence for the next 7-8 years.

So you're all over all the ways in which we're failures, but do you have a suggestion to fix it? We can't make a 25-year-old full back in his prime choose to come to us.

 

[dogwatch]

Hindsight is 20/20

Gunston looked cooked at Brisbane 2 years ago yet won a BnF and AA this year

Naughton came 4th in defence in his first year and has since become an elite KPF

Keath was fantastic as was Jones until they weren't which again isn't the club not addressing it players kick on players don't

Discovering that a player moving into the 31-35 yo bracket is losing his athletic competitiveness against blokes in their 20s should come as no surprise. It's human physiology.

It's what you plan for.

 

[Foxman98]

Discovering that a player moving into the 31-35 yo bracket is losing his athletic competitiveness against blokes in their 20s should come as no surprise. It's human physiology.

It's what you plan for.

Hence we drafted Collins/Naughton/Young/Adams/Gards/JOD/Buss

 

[Foxman98]

So you're all over all the ways in which we're failures, but do you have a suggestion to fix it? We can't make a 25-year-old full back in his prime choose to come to us.

If only we had 2 in their early 20s showing promise

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Our play to Wilkie was so bold that it forced them to pay more money to a player that was already contracted and they had no necessity to pay more money to, just to keep him onside. It was a bold enough play with enough venom behind it to force a much stronger than necessary response from the Saints.

I also don't understand why people are so against adding "more D graders" or whatever to our key defenders. Provided our draft/salary output is minimal, we still need team balance and competition for team selection. We need to cover for injury. And we still need to give ourselves options if player form randomly improves or falls away - and we certainly will have more options if we have 6 or 7 key defenders on our list to pick from, not 4 or 5.

 

[Ash1337]

Blues no longer have their future 2nd 2026.

 

[weltschmerz]

Blues no longer have their future 2nd 2026.

22 for Khamis and 33 or no deal

 

[adogsfan5]

Plenty of people saying Busslinger will never improve.

It’s a strange position to be in. I would have still pulled the trigger on Leek (if cheap) given our lack of depth. One of our big guys go down and Gardner is in.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Wilkie aside which was out of the blue and bold, our general list management and recruiting is conservative at best.

Nothing out there, not really going on the attack or being aggressive just seems like we sit back and hope for natural improvement year on year and then we'll get to Round 23 and have to win to make finals again rather than trying to shoot up into the Top 4.

Lions, Cats, Suns, Hawks, Giants, they'll all be much better next year.

Doesn't fill me with confidence we'll be aggressive when it comes to Butters next year and by God we'll need to be.

Why do you think the Giants will be better?

We should get a late first rounder. In reality we will get a future 3rd and be told that we did well

In what world would we get a late first rounder for a guy who refuses to even train let alone play football?

 

[Mojorisin]

22 for Khamis and 33 or no deal

Exactly where it sits.

 

[Shacf501]

It’s a strange position to be in. I would have still pulled the trigger on Leek (if cheap) given our lack of depth. One of our big guys go down and Gardner is in.

Not being funny, but isn't he only 194cm?

 

[Deadly Darcy]

The smartest list management decision we could make to fix our KPD situation is to recruit whoever picks them for Adelaide. Their strike rate for finding quality tall backs has been elite for years. If we don’t want Aleer or May, and can’t find what we want outside the club, then we have to repurpose Croft this off-season surely? Clearly he’s a decent forward but his old man can show him the way around the backline!

 

[Foxman98]

Not being funny, but isn't he only 194cm?

Yes he is 194cm

Weight and strength is his big weakness

 

[Foxman98]

The smartest list management decision we could make to fix our KPD situation is to recruit whoever picks them for Adelaide. Their strike rate for finding quality tall backs has been elite for years. If we don’t want Aleer or May, and can’t find what we want outside the club, then we have to repurpose Croft this off-season surely? Clearly he’s a decent forward but his old man can show him the way around the backline!

Croft isn't what we need skinnier then JOD and Buss

 

[goodcop badcop]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but I've heard that Saints renegotiated Jones' contract to match our offer and he's decided to stay

Tough news to hear. I could see him improving our side by minus 5%.

 

[Shacf501]

Yes he is 194cm

Weight and strength is his big weakness

Exactly, I wouldn't say he is the big defender we need... Though, he might for other roles for the right price

 

[Shacf501]

Croft isn't what we need skinnier then JOD and Buss

yes but a lot more athletic than them both... if we structure the ground better with a new system and slow the ball getting in I think his attributes would benefit our backline eventually

 

[adogsfan5]

Not being funny, but isn't he only 194cm?

Yep hut huge leap. 3cm shorter than JOD and Gardy.