List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part V

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 5

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[gubby88]

What is this?

https://apple.news/AanNZzmFRT26WD6lnL2xzmg

What was it? only getting this now

 

[Nutsngum]

Age profile of St Kilda squad awaiting further delistings and drafts

Player          Age Contracted until

Webster          32 2025 Retired
Hill             32 2027
Wood             32 2027
Macrae           31 2027
Sinclair         30 2027
Jones            30 2025 Uncontracted
Marshall         29 2027
Steele           29 2027 Traded to Melbourne for 3rd Round (Melb) 2027
Wilke            29 2029
Howard           29 2026
Butler           29 2026
Ryan             29 2028 Traded from WCE + 3rd Round (WCE) 2027 for 2nd Round (St K) 2026
Cordy            28 2025 Delisted
Silvagni         27 2030 UFA from Carlton
Boyd             27 2025 (R) Delisted
Higgins          26 2029
Clark            26 2027
DeKoning         26 2033 RFA from Carlton
Dow              25 2026
Stocker          25 2026
King             25 2032
Sharman          25 2026 (R)
Byrnes           24 2025 Uncontracted
Flanders         24 2031 Traded from GC for Pick 7 2025
Henry            24 2027
Hall             23 2027 (R)
Heath            23 2025 Traded to Melbourne for 4th Round (Melb) 2027
Carroll          22 2026
Wanganeen-Milera 22 2027
O'Connell        22 2026 (R)
Windhager        22 2029
McLennan         22 2025 (R) Delisted
Owens            22 2029
Caminiti         21 2026 (R)
Keeler           21 2026
Phillipou        20 2028
Schoenmaker      20 2025 Uncontracted
Collard          20 2027
Garcia           20 2027
Wilson           20 2026
Hastie           20 2027
Said             19 2026
Dodson           19 2026
Boxshall         19 2028
Armstrong        19 2026 (R)
Travaglia        19 2027
Tauru            18 2027
Barratt          18 2027

I dont believe this list is accurate as Sharman already has to have been elevated to the main list under the rookie rules.

 

[Captain Paddy]

I wonder if we had plans if Geelong gave up a future 1st earlier?

Ross turned up late, dunno why he needs to be there unless they were going to try and use that F1 along with other stuff for something?

 

[OxSaint]

If Tom Morris is correct with the offer I reckon I would have actually done that deal.

Just not that confident Marshall is going to be a gun forward. I think he might end up spending a bit of time on the pine.

Fingers crossed it works though.

I would have as well. Paired nicely with cap space to target someone next year.

Odd that we asked for it last week and turned it down this week. It looks like last week it was part of a bigger play but at the death it was too late for what we wanted it for.

 

[NAS THE GOAT]

Jason Macartney about to be on TR Debrief. Better grab some Kleenex for the Eulogy of the late Leek Aleer

 

[stavro#4]

I wonder if we had plans if Geelong gave up a future 1st earlier?

Ross turned up late, dunno why he needs to be there unless they were going to try and use that F1 along with other stuff for something?

Turned up late because those Geelong offers were starting to be worth a discussion and he needed to sign off

 

[mad-saint-guy]

That was a whirlwind. Overall I'm okay with the direction that the club is taking, although I'm a bit sceptical as to whether we have the top end talent to get the results we're clearly striving for in the next couple of years.

TDK - I still don't see how his contract can be justified based on what he's produced so far. Here's hoping for a breakout year

JSOS - Happy with this decision. Quality Battle replacement and should pair well with Wilkie

Ryan - Not necessarily best 22 IMO but the trade cost was low, so I'm not fussed

Flanders - Very very happy with Ned. I have no problem trading pick 7 for him.


Heath - Given that we brought in TDK and kept Marshall, this makes sense. I do like him as a player and think he could be handy though.

Steele - Sad to see him to but I think it's for the best. He's been ordinary for a few years and would have played a lot of VFL footy with us next year.

Marshall - If not for this sudden push for immediate success, I'd say we should have taken Geelong's final offer. But given the fact that we're bringing in older players like Silvagni and Ryan, it makes more sense to keep Marshall and I'm glad that we did. If TDK goes down and were left with Dodson and Keeler next year we'd be in trouble. I also have no faith in King to play out a season so Marshall might find himself playing 60/20/20 forward/ruck/bench.

Aleer - Thank god they came to their senses. Would have been an expensive VFL defender after we brought in JSOS. It's unfortunate how it played out, but I'd rather cop the backlash than pay up big for a C grader.

 

[hangdog]

At the end of their day their offer was still one decent pick and a bunch of junk. Glad we turned it down. We have every right to demand overs for a good player that we see a role for. Our list looks so much better with Marshall still on it. I think the TDK/Marshall combo can cause some real headaches for opposition sides next year.

I propose we start describing it to opposition fans as the TDK/Marshall/King combo.

I imagine we brought in TDK with a plan to support both Marshall and King (and the flow on effect will helping Sharman, Owens, Caminiti, Tauru).

It's been really lazy by the journalists to label Marshall as a "back up ruckman" for the next two years. He's arguably more important to us now being a genuine ruck AND forward than he was as just a ruckman.

I'll bet Sharman and Owens in particular are delighted we've held onto him. Sharman is going to love being a third tall, and Owens is likely to get more time up the ground and not be forced to play as a key forward.

I'm sure Marshall will be a uber professional and come around to his modified as the season goes on.

 

[Remboy]

Nah not in practice.

2000: Jordy McMahon vs Shaun Burgoyne - PICK 12
2001: Sam Power vs Brent Reilly - PICK 12
2002: Jason Laycock vs Jay Schulz - PICK 12
2003: Ryley Dunn vs Ryan Murphy - DRAW
2004: Chris Egan vs Danny Meyer - DRAW
2005: Marcus Drum vs Nathan Jones - PICK 12
2006: Nathan Brown vs James Frawley - PICK 12
2007: Paddy Dangerfield vs Cyril Rioli - PICK 10
2008: Phil Davis vs Lewis Johnston - PICK 10
2009: Jake Melksham vs Kane Lucas - PICK 10
2010: Daniel Gorringe vs Lucas Cook - DRAW
2011: Liam Sumner vs Sam Docherty - PICK 12
2012: Joe Daniher vs Kristian Jaksch - PICK 10
2013: Nathan Freeman vs Ben Lennon - DRAW
2014: Nakia Cockatoo vs Corey Ellis - DRAW
2015: Harry McKay vs Charlie Curnow - PICK 12
2016: Jack Bowes vs Jy Simpkin - PICK 12
2017: Lochie O'Brien vs Darcy Fogarty - PICK 12
2018: Nick Blakey vs Zac Butters - PICK 12
2019: Tom Green vs Kossie Pickett - DRAW
2020: Zach Reid vs Tanner Bruhn - PICK 12
2021: Neil Erasmus vs Josh Sinn - DRAW
2022: Mattaes Phillipou vs Jaspa Fletcher - PICK 12
2023: Nate Caddy vs Phoenix Gothard - PICK 10
2024: Alix Tauru vs Taj Hotton - PICK 10

A lot of toss-ups there tbh but it's not like pick 10 is head and shoulders above, it's behind if anything. Yeah, you have more optionality with an earlier pick, that's coo, but I can't see any evidence that pick 10 is worth "way more" than pick 12.

2021 is an interesting case. Not much between 10 & 12 but 11 is twice as good as both of them put together.

 

[stavro#4]

I’ve seen, star and superstar associated with TDK in the media in the last 24 hours.

Beveridge on trade radio said he was a star during the first half of 2024 and 25.

 

[ronnysnodgrass]

If Tom Morris is correct with the offer I reckon I would have actually done that deal.

Just not that confident Marshall is going to be a gun forward. I think he might end up spending a bit of time on the pine.

Fingers crossed it works though.

I think Marshall will be playing middle -> back, not middle -> forward

He has such a safe pair of hands hes a potential gun monster full back when needed

 

[maanco]

Nah not in practice.

2000: Jordy McMahon vs Shaun Burgoyne - PICK 12
2001: Sam Power vs Brent Reilly - PICK 12
2002: Jason Laycock vs Jay Schulz - PICK 12
2003: Ryley Dunn vs Ryan Murphy - DRAW
2004: Chris Egan vs Danny Meyer - DRAW
2005: Marcus Drum vs Nathan Jones - PICK 12
2006: Nathan Brown vs James Frawley - PICK 12
2007: Paddy Dangerfield vs Cyril Rioli - PICK 10
2008: Phil Davis vs Lewis Johnston - PICK 10
2009: Jake Melksham vs Kane Lucas - PICK 10
2010: Daniel Gorringe vs Lucas Cook - DRAW
2011: Liam Sumner vs Sam Docherty - PICK 12
2012: Joe Daniher vs Kristian Jaksch - PICK 10
2013: Nathan Freeman vs Ben Lennon - DRAW
2014: Nakia Cockatoo vs Corey Ellis - DRAW
2015: Harry McKay vs Charlie Curnow - PICK 12
2016: Jack Bowes vs Jy Simpkin - PICK 12
2017: Lochie O'Brien vs Darcy Fogarty - PICK 12
2018: Nick Blakey vs Zac Butters - PICK 12
2019: Tom Green vs Kossie Pickett - DRAW
2020: Zach Reid vs Tanner Bruhn - PICK 12
2021: Neil Erasmus vs Josh Sinn - DRAW
2022: Mattaes Phillipou vs Jaspa Fletcher - PICK 12
2023: Nate Caddy vs Phoenix Gothard - PICK 10
2024: Alix Tauru vs Taj Hotton - PICK 10

A lot of toss-ups there tbh but it's not like pick 10 is head and shoulders above, it's behind if anything. Yeah, you have more optionality with an earlier pick, that's coo, but I can't see any evidence that pick 10 is worth "way more" than pick 12.

pick 10 and 12 was just an example.

But during a live draft a club may trade give a 2nd round pick say pick 30 for the privilege to do a 2 pick upgrade from 12 to 10.

At the back end of the draft to do a two pick upgrade from 42 to 40 a club might trade pick 60.

I know id rather keep pick 30 rather than pick 60.

 

[Remboy]

It's been really lazy by the journalists to label Marshall as a "back up ruckman" for the next two years. He's arguably more important to us now being a genuine ruck AND forward than he was as just a ruckman.

Someone should tell them Brisbane just won a flag with two rucks. I’m sure Ro will be fine with being a member of the Saints juggernaut.

 

[maanco]

What will pick 103 fall to

No idea how many picks clubs will be taking.

Best guess pick 60 odd but it will likely be used to upgrade Caminiti to the senior list so it won't even be a live pick.

 

[John2010362340]

2025 is the year we will all look back on as the one that turned this club into a juggernaut it has always threatened to be.

We've added 4 starting 18 players on the park. This isn't an exaggeration all 4 will be on the park first ball bounced for 2026. That's massive, if all things being equal we're now a 5 goal better side in 2026. Our depth in each position is as good as I've ever seen. Sure we had more stars in 09 and 10 but we were never 30 man deep. I said the day we sacked Ratten and hired Ross was the day the Saints finally grew up and became a serious football club. My hopes are as high as the 2010 season, i honestly think we are in premiership contention now. A lot depends on health, but we have a top 6 list in the competition.

 

[snails13]

2025 is the year we will all look back on as the one that turned this club into a juggernaut it has always threatened to be.

We've added 4 starting 18 players on the park. This isn't an exaggeration all 4 will be on the park first ball bounced for 2026. That's massive, if all things being equal we're now a 5 goal better side in 2026. Our depth in each position is as good as I've ever seen. Sure we had more stars in 09 and 10 but we were never 30 man deep. I said the day we sacked Ratten and hired Ross was the day the Saints finally grew up and became a serious football club. My hopes are as high as the 2010 season, i honestly think we are in premiership contention now. A lot depends on health, but we have a top 6 list in the competition.

We need our youngsters to live up to our expectations

 

[John2010362340]

We need our youngsters to live up to our expectations

Hence, all things being equal.

 

[Joffaboy]

my cricket exploits clearly haven’t gotten the credit they deserve

I actually think I got a gig because I wasn't about for a week and everyone didn't have to put up with my shitposting.

 

[bird_man]

I wonder how many trade radio listeners are gonna go watch the new Springsteen film

 

[gringo2011]

I would have as well. Paired nicely with cap space to target someone next year.

Odd that we asked for it last week and turned it down this week. It looks like last week it was part of a bigger play but at the death it was too late for what we wanted it for.

Yeah, I reckon that they had plans to chase a Butters or Merrett type with the suite of picks that they amassed. I think we are at the point where we are trying to build a list for now not 5 years time.

 

[CursingFijian]

Anyone going mention the fact that Tony had a flawless 2025.

<Cough>

 

[gringo2011]

That was a whirlwind. Overall I'm okay with the direction that the club is taking, although I'm a bit sceptical as to whether we have the top end talent to get the results we're clearly striving for in the next couple of years.

TDK - I still don't see how his contract can be justified based on what he's produced so far. Here's hoping for a breakout year

JSOS - Happy with this decision. Quality Battle replacement and should pair well with Wilkie

Ryan - Not necessarily best 22 IMO but the trade cost was low, so I'm not fussed

Flanders - Very very happy with Ned. I have no problem trading pick 7 for him.


Heath - Given that we brought in TDK and kept Marshall, this makes sense. I do like him as a player and think he could be handy though.

Steele - Sad to see him to but I think it's for the best. He's been ordinary for a few years and would have played a lot of VFL footy with us next year.

Marshall - If not for this sudden push for immediate success, I'd say we should have taken Geelong's final offer. But given the fact that we're bringing in older players like Silvagni and Ryan, it makes more sense to keep Marshall and I'm glad that we did. If TDK goes down and were left with Dodson and Keeler next year we'd be in trouble. I also have no faith in King to play out a season so Marshall might find himself playing 60/20/20 forward/ruck/bench.

Aleer - Thank god they came to their senses. Would have been an expensive VFL defender after we brought in JSOS. It's unfortunate how it played out, but I'd rather cop the backlash than pay up big for a C grader.

Ryan is best 22 for sure. Unless Butler gets super fit and forces our hand or Collard comes from the clouds that is.

 

[gringo2011]

2025 is the year we will all look back on as the one that turned this club into a juggernaut it has always threatened to be.

We've added 4 starting 18 players on the park. This isn't an exaggeration all 4 will be on the park first ball bounced for 2026. That's massive, if all things being equal we're now a 5 goal better side in 2026. Our depth in each position is as good as I've ever seen. Sure we had more stars in 09 and 10 but we were never 30 man deep. I said the day we sacked Ratten and hired Ross was the day the Saints finally grew up and became a serious football club. My hopes are as high as the 2010 season, i honestly think we are in premiership contention now. A lot depends on health, but we have a top 6 list in the competition.

We have a few potential guns in that lot but more a spread of B graders and some cover for holes/depth. We had a similar surge with Ryder, Hill, Butler, Howard, Snags etc but we hadn't done the big build under that. This model looks much better because it's a top up built on the back of a serious list rebuild.

Toce getting us Nas and kick starting us into a draft lead list build is where I put the year that built our chance at success. These guys are unlikely to be able to carry the whole side but they should allow the kids to play with freedom and protection and start a surge of momentum.

 

[phantom13]

Ryan is best 22 for sure. Unless Butler gets super fit and forces our hand or Collard comes from the clouds that is.

Id love Collard to pass him, Collard has the traits to be the best small forward in the game.

It might never come together but if it does hell be unreal.

 

[John2010362340]

We have a few potential guns in that lot but more a spread of B graders and some cover for holes/depth. We had a similar surge with Ryder, Hill, Butler, Howard, Snags etc but we hadn't done the big build under that. This model looks much better because it's a top up built on the back of a serious list rebuild.

Toce getting us Nas and kick starting us into a draft lead list build is where I put the year that built our chance at success. These guys are unlikely to be able to carry the whole side but they should allow the kids to play with freedom and protection and start a surge of momentum.

And all but one is still on the list with a host of young talent coming through. The list is as good as its looked in a long time.