List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part V

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 5

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[Kildonan]

Age profile of St Kilda squad awaiting further delistings and drafts

Player          Age Contracted until

Webster          32 2025 Retired
Hill             32 2027
Wood             32 2027
Macrae           31 2027
Sinclair         30 2027
Jones            30 2025 Uncontracted
Marshall         29 2027
Steele           29 2027 Traded to Melbourne for 3rd Round (Melb) 2027
Wilke            29 2029
Howard           29 2026
Butler           29 2026
Ryan             29 2028 Traded from WCE + 3rd Round (WCE) 2027 for 2nd Round (St K) 2026
Cordy            28 2025 Delisted
Silvagni         27 2030 UFA from Carlton
Boyd             27 2025 (R) Delisted
Higgins          26 2029
Clark            26 2027
DeKoning         26 2033 RFA from Carlton
Dow              25 2026
Stocker          25 2026
King             25 2032
Sharman          25 2026 (R)
Byrnes           24 2025 Uncontracted
Flanders         24 2031 Traded from GC for Pick 7 2025
Henry            24 2027
Hall             23 2027 (R)
Heath            23 2025 Traded to Melbourne for 4th Round (Melb) 2027
Carroll          22 2026
Wanganeen-Milera 22 2027
O'Connell        22 2026 (R)
Windhager        22 2029
McLennan         22 2025 (R) Delisted
Owens            22 2029
Caminiti         21 2026 (R)
Keeler           21 2026
Phillipou        20 2028
Schoenmaker      20 2025 Uncontracted
Collard          20 2027
Garcia           20 2027
Wilson           20 2026
Hastie           20 2027
Said             19 2026
Dodson           19 2026
Boxshall         19 2028
Armstrong        19 2026 (R)
Travaglia        19 2027
Tauru            18 2027
Barratt          18 2027

 

[maanco]

NGA BIDS
Players in Cals Thomeys phantom form guide expecting bids, current rank in the guide on the left.

3 players to Gold Coast (2 top 5, 1 in the 20-30 range)
1 to Brisbane (top 3 to 10 range)
1 to Sydney (15 to 30)

After the 10% discount only gold coast are expected to go into deficit. Assuming no further trades.

But this also all means that our first pick currently 50 will land at about pick 42.

This would allow st kilda to match a bid of kye fincher at about pick pick 40 without going into deficit. With only a 10% discount.

Pick 65 will fall to approx. pick 57

 

[maanco]

Players in Cals Thomeys phantom form guide expecting bids, current rank in the guide on the left.

3 players to Gold Coast (2 top 5, 1 in the 20-30 range)
1 to Brisbane (top 3 to 10 range)
1 to Sydney (15 to 30)

After the 10% discount only gold coast are expected to go into deficit. Assuming no further trades.

But this also all means that our first pick currently 50 will land at about pick 42.

This would allow st kilda to match a bid of kye fincher at about pick pick 40 without going into deficit. With only a 10% discount.

Rant
Compare that to a bid at pick 10 and be able to match with pick 12 and not go into deficit, i.e. a two pick discount.

It's ridiculous realistically pick 10 is worth way more than pick 12. And realistically pick 40 and 42 are virtually the same value.

The AFL have not considered these rules very well.

 

[Joffaboy]

Big footy trade period gradings
tony74 - A++ 100% record, every call correct
Joffaboy - A + bulldogs still an unserious club, as shown by their 175cm key defender pickup
SainterinSydney - A+ pure optimism around NAS, keeping spirits up

To even be mentioned in the same post as the great man is an honour, also next to tony74 is pretty good too.

 

[topbillings]

I think my villian origin story begins with Steele being traded for a 2027 third round pick, while somehow Zac Jones is still in our starting 22 in 2026.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

I think my villian origin story begins with Steele being traded for a 2027 third round pick, while somehow Zac Jones is still in our starting 22 in 2026.

Except Zak isn’t, and isn’t on $1M

 

[Kildonan]

The relationship between the National Draft and Rookie Draft and Primary List and Rookie List means its not a straight 6 in / 6 out scenario.

We had to trade Steele, and now delist all of Jones, Byrnes, and Schoenmaker to take the minimum 3 picks to the ND.

Webster, Cordy, Heath, Steele the only players moving off the Primary List, covering our 4 traded in players, therefore the 3 delistings are needed to have 3 picks at the draft.

McLennan and Boyd were cut from the rookie list, and with Caminiti needing to be upgraded, means we will have a minimum 3 picks at the rookie draft.

Given how poor of a draft it is we might leave a spot open for midseason 2026. I could also see us rookieing Schoenmaker for the exact same reason.

Blah blah blah list spots.

With Webster, Steele, Cordy and Heath moving off the Primary List then Ryan, Sylvagni, DeKoning and Flanders being added to the Primary List, there are no further spots available hence the need to delist three more.

Those three are likely to be Jones, Byrnes and Schoenmaker.

That gives us three list spaces to fill.

We need to add Caminiti to the Primary list as he is ineligible to remain on the Rookie list.

That leaves two Primary List spaces vacant and I believe two Rookie List spaces vacant and one Category B List space also vacant (after McLennan was delisted).

I suspect that we will take our NG Academy prospect Kye Fincher and possibly one other in the National Draft and we may rookie Schoenmaker, or less likely, Byrnes.

It doesn't appear to be an exciting draft for Saints fans, but who knows? Maybe something totally unexpected may still happen.

 

[saintmike65]

Sorry if it’s been posted, I’m a bit behind.

But Tom Morris said in the dying minutes Geelong offered pick 40 + F1 2026 + something in 2027.

Apparently our blokes didn’t even blink. Rejected it within seconds as being inadequate.

Fluffing around with minor picks anchored around a first. Honestly, what rubbish.

Pathetic from Mackie. Weak. Stingy.

They needed Marshall. Badly. Just stump up and pay. Get the player. Why worry about offering a pick in the 40s or a minor pick in the 2027 draft?

A big fail for Geelong.

If you look at the decision not to sign Aleer and then trade Jack for a nothing pick, to clear his money off the cap. It seems like an out of contract or free agent opportunity is in the pipeline.

I think the Steele thing may have been a list balance decision with
Macrae, he, Boxshall and Clark all one paced players.
Steele turning 30 & banged up probably was the logical one to go.
.

 

[saintmike65]

Except Zak isn’t, and isn’t on $1M

Jones may not even be there nextseason...depth player if he is!

 

[TheJackal]

I have been dead against it for months, but JUH for $250k base and pick 70odd would've been so tempting!

I'd love to know who we've been speaking to or who we're planning for, we'll never be privy to that information but I wish Tony could come out and say.

 

[bird_man]

If Tom Morris is correct with the offer I reckon I would have actually done that deal.

Just not that confident Marshall is going to be a gun forward. I think he might end up spending a bit of time on the pine.

Fingers crossed it works though.

 

[Sully111]

Geelong obviously think they can come to the table super late and clubs will buckle under pressure.

Not this time

Champs

Champy McChampy Champarino Champs.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Right now Geelong is in the bathroom contemplating signing Boyd and crying like a little girl!

I think it's gone beyond that

 

[_Maximus_12]

Big footy trade period gradings
tony74 - A++ 100% record, every call correct
Joffaboy - A + bulldogs still an unserious club, as shown by their 175cm key defender pickup
SainterinSydney - A+ pure optimism around NAS, keeping spirits up

my cricket exploits clearly haven’t gotten the credit they deserve

 

[_Maximus_12]

The same sentiment from us, and the Bombers. If you want our contracted players, negotiate (fairly) early and give us time to work through what it looks like. Don’t use time to pressure clubs into making rash decisions. The balance of power between clubs is equalizing because players are being held to long term contracts.

 

[TheJackal]

The same sentiment from us, and the Bombers. If you want our contracted players, negotiate (fairly) early and give us time to work through what it looks like. Don’t use time to pressure clubs into making rash decisions. The balance of power between clubs is equalizing because players are being held to long term contracts.

In years gone by the AFL have stepped in to assist with negotiations- third, sometimes fourth clubs have come in to help with deals.

With no time left, these arrogant clubs had no chance and tried to bully their way into panic decisions.

 

[snails13]

Agreed.

Also, I think Carlton were big winners.

They got obscene value for an injury prone 28 year old Curnow, but also added really good depth in Hayward, Florent, Ainsworth, Chesser and Riedy with an early first father/son to come and now hold 6 x First Rounders over the next 3 years. Arguably all but Reidy are best 23 players at Carlton.

As for Hawthorn... They lost Jiath, Worpel and Serong but brought in Merrett sod all.

Mrs Mitchell needs to be sacked.
She is a one season wonder

 

[bergholt]

It's ridiculous realistically pick 10 is worth way more than pick 12.

Nah not in practice.

2000: Jordy McMahon vs Shaun Burgoyne - PICK 12
2001: Sam Power vs Brent Reilly - PICK 12
2002: Jason Laycock vs Jay Schulz - PICK 12
2003: Ryley Dunn vs Ryan Murphy - DRAW
2004: Chris Egan vs Danny Meyer - DRAW
2005: Marcus Drum vs Nathan Jones - PICK 12
2006: Nathan Brown vs James Frawley - PICK 12
2007: Paddy Dangerfield vs Cyril Rioli - PICK 10
2008: Phil Davis vs Lewis Johnston - PICK 10
2009: Jake Melksham vs Kane Lucas - PICK 10
2010: Daniel Gorringe vs Lucas Cook - DRAW
2011: Liam Sumner vs Sam Docherty - PICK 12
2012: Joe Daniher vs Kristian Jaksch - PICK 10
2013: Nathan Freeman vs Ben Lennon - DRAW
2014: Nakia Cockatoo vs Corey Ellis - DRAW
2015: Harry McKay vs Charlie Curnow - PICK 12
2016: Jack Bowes vs Jy Simpkin - PICK 12
2017: Lochie O'Brien vs Darcy Fogarty - PICK 12
2018: Nick Blakey vs Zac Butters - PICK 12
2019: Tom Green vs Kossie Pickett - DRAW
2020: Zach Reid vs Tanner Bruhn - PICK 12
2021: Neil Erasmus vs Josh Sinn - DRAW
2022: Mattaes Phillipou vs Jaspa Fletcher - PICK 12
2023: Nate Caddy vs Phoenix Gothard - PICK 10
2024: Alix Tauru vs Taj Hotton - PICK 10

A lot of toss-ups there tbh but it's not like pick 10 is head and shoulders above, it's behind if anything. Yeah, you have more optionality with an earlier pick, that's coo, but I can't see any evidence that pick 10 is worth "way more" than pick 12.

 

[BrutThough]

Pick 40 in a draft they are struggling to identify afl calibre talent in after roughly pick 30

F1 is nice.

Another late 2027 is meh.

Also every chance 40 would be used on Fincher who we get anyway so it adds nothing to a deal.

 

[beside the seaside]

Geelong obviously think they can come to the table super late and clubs will buckle under pressure.

Not this time

Champs

Champy McChampy Champarino Champs.

At the end of their day their offer was still one decent pick and a bunch of junk. Glad we turned it down. We have every right to demand overs for a good player that we see a role for. Our list looks so much better with Marshall still on it. I think the TDK/Marshall combo can cause some real headaches for opposition sides next year.

 

[Captain Paddy]

If Tom Morris is correct with the offer I reckon I would have actually done that deal.

Just not that confident Marshall is going to be a gun forward. I think he might end up spending a bit of time on the pine.

Fingers crossed it works though.

Reckon in the end the clubs just wants to see how the two rucks work…. And to get a dog up Geelong.

If the two rucks don’t work/ Ro still wants to go to Geelong next year, we can still trade him for a decent price PLUS we get an extra year of development into Dodzilla

 

[snails13]

NGA BIDS
Players in Cals Thomeys phantom form guide expecting bids, current rank in the guide on the left.

3 players to Gold Coast (2 top 5, 1 in the 20-30 range)
1 to Brisbane (top 3 to 10 range)
1 to Sydney (15 to 30)

After the 10% discount only gold coast are expected to go into deficit. Assuming no further trades.

But this also all means that our first pick currently 50 will land at about pick 42.

This would allow st kilda to match a bid of kye fincher at about pick pick 40 without going into deficit. With only a 10% discount.

Pick 65 will fall to approx. pick 57

What will pick 103 fall to

 

[Teflon]

What is this?

https://apple.news/AanNZzmFRT26WD6lnL2xzmg

 

[Flandersss]

Dard Ball Get triggering bro

 

[Diehard Saint]

What is this?

https://apple.news/AanNZzmFRT26WD6lnL2xzmg

What a stuff up.
Fire the trainee producer