Rumour Bluemour Discussion XLI

[NewDarkNavyBlues]

While I'd LOVE to have Butters in navy blue, the reality is, it will be very costly...

First of all, Port will match any bid... anyone who thinks they're gonna let him walk for a single band 1 compo pick is living on another planet. They are forcing a trade for him.

Secondly, any trade negotiation will involve Port DEMANDING our 2026 1st round picks. Both of them. Forget the 27 and 28 picks... that's not going to cut it, in fact Port will want those thrown in on top. They are investing heavily into next year's draft and those 2 first round picks we hold will be the only thing they really want from us, that I can assure you.

Third, the contract will have to be the biggest in AFL history. Butters will have 10 Vic clubs knocking on the door. We can't sell success yet, like say a Hawthorn or Geelong can. All we can do is sell him on the fact there are some familiar faces here with CD, MV, TB and Torin... but we'll have to stump up more $$$ because let's be real, that will be what he is after as well. What's the knock on effect of paying him say $2M / season for the next 8 years? just look at the Stains already this year... the TDK contract has ruffled the feathers of some of their existing players... I get the feeling that all is not well in Stainland and as a result, we won't see the improvement most expect from them...

Which brings me back to my point about Sam Walsh... he's also a free agent next year... if he sees us negotiating a $2M contract for Butters and not for him, he will feel betrayed and it's probably rightly so... and then we could lose him. Other clubs are already circling and ready to offer him big $ as well...

It's an all in bet I'm afraid. We'll have to satisfy Port, Butters and the rest of the playing group. It's the kind of bet you make when you're in Hawthorn's position, not ours. We just won't compromise matching the bid for Cody especially after he has committed to us and at the same time risk losing Sam Walsh and disrupt the culture we're trying to build...

Fair points you raise. GW won’t be a fan of loading the salary cap with Butters. I suppose you hope Butters comes to us for a reasonable price given our connections to him. Wouldn’t bet on it though. It’s a shame because he’s exactly the player we need.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Fair points you raise. GW won’t be a fan of loading the salary cap with Butters. I suppose you hope Butters comes to us for a reasonable price given our connections to him. Wouldn’t bet on it though. It’s a shame because he’s exactly the player we need.

With Smith and Walker coming through, if we play our cards right, our midfield will be stacked with A grade talent in the years to come.

If we can somehow work our way up this year to get a pick for Robey, we will not even think about Butters come 2029ish.

I still think McInerny is the FA we need to chase next year...

 

[Azzurro]

I guess i went hard on what i saw as drivel opinion because you have been strong on posters attacking players in your recent posts. Then you are front and centre on attacking a player...but it is ok because he isnt playing for Carlton. There is a word for it that that im sure you are aware of.

Listening to Jack directly for what, 8-10+ years that he has been at the football club says a lot more to me about his character than Docherty or my point of GW.

IMO (to match yours), JSoS has been undervalued and got sick of it....that along with a dysfunctioning footy programme which we can all see from watching the games output on gameday.

Your point that jsos was a poor cultural influence just grates because it really is just a stupid guess based off a few comments.

Yep, I've been strong on supporters cruedly abusing players at games and on social media, for the Bronx cheers when Motlop disposes neatly and for the calls to drop one or both of our Coleman medallists mid-game. I've not hammered posters for making a reasoned point on this forum. But I see your perspective and could have chosen a better word than "disease" to explain my thoughts.

SOS clearly wanted a fresh start - he asked to leave, allegedly for the same or less money until St Kilda stumped up. Because he felt undervalued? Maybe. Because he felt the footy department is dysfunctional? Maybe.

I explained a bit more in another post. Bottom line: there are multiple reasons he left - I wasn't really looking into that. There are mulitple reasons the club were ok with him leaving - I am interrogating one of them.

 

[Azzurro]

Put it this way, I'm excited if we get him for $1m-$1.3m p/a, but I'm not looking at going back to being 'Top Heavy' and counting on Butters as our savior. The idea should be 'team' not 'messiah'.

This. 100% this.

Just as long as the idea isn't specifically "geriatric team" like Collingwood's strategy appears to be

 

[Blue1980]

Put it this way, I'm excited if we get him for $1m-$1.3m p/a, but I'm not looking at going back to being 'Top Heavy' and counting on Butters as our savior. The idea should be 'team' not 'messiah'.

0% chance we do that with GW, this trade period was about rectifying that with our list.

Look at GW history at hawks and pies, never liked over paying salaries to a select few.

 

[Juddy's Playground]

I see you have no issue with Tarryn Thomas

No I don’t have an issue with Tarryn Thomas playing football, I don’t have an issue with Elijah playing football for another club just not Carlton .
If my opinion upset you that’s not my aim it’s just an opinion .
What’s your opinion on Thomas and Elijah ?

 

[My Hat]

Agree that in the absence of information people will literally make things up. I've only shared this one recent example as it's fresh in my mind. I don't much like your suggestion that I'm clutching at straws or my(tinfoil)hat, so I'll add a bit more colour.

On the statement: yes it was tongue in cheek by Docherty, but I wouldn't call it pure jest, and the truth of it was evident based on the response from all the players.

On SOS, a couple of other bits of evidence from top of mind, without digging too far or dipping into the rumour mill:

His demeanour at numerous public events I've been to, matching the attitude mentioned by Docherty.

The saga of his dad's sacking with his bitter response including the deleted posts. Would I have responded in the same way? Almost certainly. At his age at the time, I would have hung around too, just like he did. But older me would leave ASAP knowing it's broken beyond repair. And years later, here we are.

I don't begrudge anyone retiring or moving on. I'm not bitter nor offended about it. And I don't feel the need to justify why they've left, certainly not due to some sense of insecurity or "because the internet".

All I'm really saying is, I reckon that if we really wanted SOS or others to stay we would have made it so. The fact that they left isn't only because we couldn't match other offers. Which leads me to question, why else was our club ok with these senior players (some of them "generational talent") leaving? And here we are

I wasn't referring only to you in my post, though I can understand if it came across that way since yours was the post I quoted. Apologies if so.

Obviously Doc's comment touched on something recognisable, otherwise he wouldn't have made it. But there's a wide range of possible behaviours that might fit that picture, from a harmlessly dour demeanour to a destructively negative outlook on life and everything in between, and probably more besides. My point is that people (not specifically you) seem to be selecting the interpretation that best fits their narrative without acknowledging that that's what they're doing.

The really weird thing is that some people here have been bagging Doc as well for making negative / 'bitter' comments since he finished. So apparently they think the other (mild) criticisms Doc has about the club can be written off as negativity, but this one thing about JSOS should be taken as gospel.

 

[gab213]

I guess i went hard on what i saw as drivel opinion because you have been strong on posters attacking players in your recent posts. Then you are front and centre on attacking a player...but it is ok because he isnt playing for Carlton. There is a word for it that that im sure you are aware of.

Listening to Jack directly for what, 8-10+ years that he has been at the football club says a lot more to me about his character than Docherty or my point of GW.

IMO (to match yours), JSoS has been undervalued and got sick of it....that along with a dysfunctioning footy programme which we can all see from watching the games output on gameday.

Your point that jsos was a poor cultural influence just grates because it really is just a stupid guess based off a few comments.

Jack had issues with Bolton, then with Teague, then with Voss.... what's the common denominator?

 

[Poorman53]

That was my point. It wasn't necessarily about Charlie but an overall review of ourselves as a supporter base.

Can we be better ?

We have a few loud idiots. They seem to think they are funny too.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Jack had issues with Bolton, then with Teague, then with Voss.... what's the common denominator?

His s*** attitude and melt of a father

 

[CJMB]

Put it this way, I'm excited if we get him for $1m-$1.3m p/a, but I'm not looking at going back to being 'Top Heavy' and counting on Butters as our savior. The idea should be 'team' not 'messiah'.

Maybe 1.0-1.3 base with scope to push to 1.8+ depending on kpis…

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

Jack had issues with Bolton, then with Teague, then with Voss.... what's the common denominator?

Ummmm coaches?

 

[katmanblue]

Am I the only one not remotely excited or interested in Butters?

Pretty much.

 

[JoeyPBLUES]

Jack had issues with Bolton, then with Teague, then with Voss.... what's the common denominator?

In all seriousness though have heard the same from multiple sources including from someone at the club re: Jack. I think the word petulant got thrown around a fair bit lol

 

[Azzurro]

I wasn't referring only to you in my post, though I can understand if it came across that way since yours was the post I quoted. Apologies if so.

Obviously Doc's comment touched on something recognisable, otherwise he wouldn't have made it. But there's a wide range of possible behaviours that might fit that picture, from a harmlessly dour demeanour to a destructively negative outlook on life and everything in between, and probably more besides. My point is that people (not specifically you) seem to be selecting the interpretation that best fits their narrative without acknowledging that that's what they're doing.

The really weird thing is that some people here have been bagging Doc as well for making negative / 'bitter' comments since he finished. So apparently they think the other (mild) criticisms Doc has about the club can be written off as negativity, but this one thing about JSOS should be taken as gospel.

All good, thanks for clarifying. I did feel that way but understand it's easy to do that online, no harm done.

I haven't seen many people's opinions of Doc since leaving so I can't really comment on that. His criticisms since leaving do seem to provide more evidence that he was a possible negative influence around the place.

I don't understand how people can be so one-eyed. I love my club too but blue-coloured glasses are an odd choice of lens.

The simple answer seems to me that Doc being critical of the club since leaving and his jovial public acknowledgement of SOS' negativity are both his genuine opinion. Why people would dismiss one as being less true than the other is mind boggling.

 

[Bearded Carpenter]

While ago it was taboo to ask about Elijah.

Now it seems okay.

Can someone more intelligent than me please clarify why the club allowed him to play last few games in 2’s if his papers were stamped.


It’s all very bizarre.

I’ve asked this question multiple times and no one has answered or given their opinion.

 

[katmanblue]

While I'd LOVE to have Butters in navy blue, the reality is, it will be very costly...

First of all, Port will match any bid... anyone who thinks they're gonna let him walk for a single band 1 compo pick is living on another planet. They are forcing a trade for him.

Secondly, any trade negotiation will involve Port DEMANDING our 2026 1st round picks. Both of them. Forget the 27 and 28 picks... that's not going to cut it, in fact Port will want those thrown in on top. They are investing heavily into next year's draft and those 2 first round picks we hold will be the only thing they really want from us, that I can assure you.

Third, the contract will have to be the biggest in AFL history. Butters will have 10 Vic clubs knocking on the door. We can't sell success yet, like say a Hawthorn or Geelong can. All we can do is sell him on the fact there are some familiar faces here with CD, MV, TB and Torin... but we'll have to stump up more $$$ because let's be real, that will be what he is after as well. What's the knock on effect of paying him say $2M / season for the next 8 years? just look at the Stains already this year... the TDK contract has ruffled the feathers of some of their existing players... I get the feeling that all is not well in Stainland and as a result, we won't see the improvement most expect from them...

Which brings me back to my point about Sam Walsh... he's also a free agent next year... if he sees us negotiating a $2M contract for Butters and not for him, he will feel betrayed and it's probably rightly so... and then we could lose him. Other clubs are already circling and ready to offer him big $ as well...

It's an all in bet I'm afraid. We'll have to satisfy Port, Butters and the rest of the playing group. It's the kind of bet you make when you're in Hawthorn's position, not ours. We just won't compromise matching the bid for Cody especially after he has committed to us and at the same time risk losing Sam Walsh and disrupt the culture we're trying to build...

It's 12 months out.

Being real is one option.

Jumping on board the bandwagon and having a bit of fun with fellow posters while we dare to dream blue sky dreams, is another.

Which will you choose?

 

[Blue_Fusion]

It's 12 months out.

Being real is one option.

Jumping on board the bandwagon and having a bit of fun with fellow posters while we dare to dream blue sky dreams, is another.

Which will you choose?

I did have fun... I posted a butter emoji

I got asked for real, so I gave a for real answer...

 

[Soapy V]

Re McGovern - out tall defender stocks are weits and young, with Dean, Haynes as third tall types. We need McGovern.

What if we bring in Phillips Blight or Frost?

 

[Gointocarlton]

What if we bring in Phillips Blight or Frost?

Jones? I'll see myself out

 

[GT619]

Jack had issues with Bolton, then with Teague, then with Voss.... what's the common denominator?

simple he's a flog

 

[GT619]

What if we bring in Phillips Blight or Frost?

in which order would you select

 

[ferrisb]

Am I the only one not remotely excited or interested in Butters?

Butters is a superstar.

But he'll cost $1.5M+ a year over 6-8 years for a player that plays a fairly physical game. Plus 2-3 first rounders (port will force a trade).

Our list was too top-heavy when we were paying Charlie less than that.

Do I love Butters the player? Yes
Do I love Butters the recruitment? No

 

[Soapy V]

in which order would you select

I’d go Phillips. I like him and even though his last pre season was poor he had a great year. Says a lot. Good intercepter

 

[Benaly28]

I thought we’d re vamp our footy department and list but I wasn’t expecting this much change.

In saying that I love all the changes we’ve made and am so excited for next year more so than I was this year strangely enough.