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List Mgmt. 2025 List Management II 📃

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We've lost for 2026: Docherty, Fantasia, Lemmey Cincotta De Koning, Silvagni, Durdin, Curnow (Edit: and most likely E.Hollands).
Plus Harry O'Farrell basically for 2026 with his ACL.
We gain Riedy, Chesser, Ainsworth, Hayward, Florent, plus most likely Dean, Ison, plus whomever else maybe in the draft (IMO, if possible, would be good to get someone before or around the Dean pick), plus a returning Jagga Smith and Kemp ((edit: and Newman - how could I forget him?!) and hopefully more games and a healthier Walsh.
Whilst TDK, JSOS and CC are huge outs for 2026 (plus EH to a degree, if gone), I think on balance we're actually as good if not better across the board.
 
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HavUEvaSeenTheRain said:
Again you are ignoring that the AFL want high picks used on high bids so that natural draft selections at the top end get pushed down less.
The DVI changes are a shocking argument. If it is set close to true value than it would be no issue matching with two picks. The most accurate value of draft picks is what teams will trade them for
Click to expand...
No, I get the idea that they want to manipulate the market, it’s just that that’s a bad way to implement the matching system, and they’ll want to change it again in the future
 
Revenant1995 said:
We've lost for 2026: Docherty, Fantasia, Lemmey Cincotta De Koning, Silvagni, Durdin, Curnow (Edit: and most likely E.Hollands).
Plus Harry O'Farrell basically for 2026 with his ACL.
We gain Riedy, Chesser, Ainsworth, Hayward, Florent, plus most likely Dean, Ison, plus whomever else maybe in the draft (IMO, if possible, would be good to get someone before or around the Dean pick), plus a returning Jagga Smith and Kemp, and hopefully more games and a healthier Walsh.
Whilst TDK, JSOS and CC are huge outs for 2026 (plus EH to a degree, if gone), I think on balance we're actually as good if not better across the board.
Click to expand...
Don’t forget Nic Newman Rev.
 

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Okay.

Between Matt Owies, Corey Durdin and Charlie Curnow, we have lost 264 goals and 157 behinds, 263 tackles, and 89 goal assists from 144 games, bringing things to an average net loss of 1.83 goals per match, 1.09 behinds, 1.83 tackles and 0.62 goal assists per match over the last three seasons; in Owies' case, we've excluded his WC stats as they aren't equivalent to what he'd have gotten if we retained him, so his contribution is limited to a 2 year timeframe where the other two have their last three years. While we could include other stats like marks or I50's, this is more or less the raw offensive/defensive output of a forward.

Ben Aisworth has over the same timeframe has 60 goals, 38 behinds, 97 tackles and 35 goal assists over 62 matches. Will Hayward has 95 goals, 56 behinds, 193 tackles and 33 goal assists over 70 matches. This comes to a total of 155 goals, 94 behinds, 290 tackles and 78 goal assists over 132 matches, producing averages of 1.17 goals, 1.34 behinds, 1.46 tackles and 0.59 goal assists per match.

Now, it's pretty obvious here where we're going to look short next season: we're going to kick significantly less goals, be slightly less accurate, lay less tackles and be on par roughly as far as goal assists are concerned. We should - fingers crossed - get more games out of the two given the fact that we only achieved 144 games across 3 players and 8 years of footy, where Ainsworth and Hayward got to 132 in the same timeframe with just the two players.

The thing here is, we don't know who's going to be fronting up beside Harry next year or how Kemp will look in front of ball over the long term. A criticism that can be levied at this analysis is that I've analysed two small/mediums against 2 small/mediums and a KPP, but without knowing who that KPP will be replaced by we cannot know what stats to look at.

What this ultimately means is that we will need to change the method or, all things being equal, we will be short goals.
 
teddy-hopkins said:
Not following this logic.
Click to expand...

I’m saying it’s not really logical at all, but part of the source and dynamic of high expectations around Cerra. As a club we’ve painted ourselves into a corner with so many draft/FA misses that we end up looking to a few to be superstars instead of just good ordinary players.
 
Gethelred said:
Okay.

Between Matt Owies, Corey Durdin and Charlie Curnow, we have lost 264 goals and 157 behinds, 263 tackles, and 89 goal assists from 144 games, bringing things to an average net loss of 1.83 goals per match, 1.09 behinds, 1.83 tackles and 0.62 goal assists per match over the last three seasons; in Owies' case, we've excluded his WC stats as they aren't equivalent to what he'd have gotten if we retained him, so his contribution is limited to a 2 year timeframe where the other two have their last three years. While we could include other stats like marks or I50's, this is more or less the raw offensive/defensive output of a forward.

Ben Aisworth has over the same timeframe has 60 goals, 38 behinds, 97 tackles and 35 goal assists over 62 matches. Will Hayward has 95 goals, 56 behinds, 193 tackles and 33 goal assists over 70 matches. This comes to a total of 155 goals, 94 behinds, 290 tackles and 78 goal assists over 132 matches, producing averages of 1.17 goals, 1.34 behinds, 1.46 tackles and 0.59 goal assists per match.

Now, it's pretty obvious here where we're going to look short next season: we're going to kick significantly less goals, be slightly less accurate, lay less tackles and be on par roughly as far as goal assists are concerned. We should - fingers crossed - get more games out of the two given the fact that we only achieved 144 games across 3 players and 8 years of footy, where Ainsworth and Hayward got to 132 in the same timeframe with just the two players.

The thing here is, we don't know who's going to be fronting up beside Harry next year or how Kemp will look in front of ball over the long term. A criticism that can be levied at this analysis is that I've analysed two small/mediums against 2 small/mediums and a KPP, but without knowing who that KPP will be replaced by we cannot know what stats to look at.

What this ultimately means is that we will need to change the method or, all things being equal, we will be short goals.
Click to expand...
Aiming for everyone to step up their averages (more opportunities hopefully), including Hayward & Ainsworth + ZW, Carlos, EH(?), Frank & more from H as the focal - time to step up & own it.

HOK, Kemp and whoever else may be the pairing KPF/tall.

Then there’s the midfielders input, which you’d think would be point of improvement to hit the scoreboard.
 
I could see us doing something like

Our Pick 11 + 43 for Essendon pick 21, 27 & 30
Our Pick 9 + Pick 54 for Pies F1 + 39

Gives the Bombers another top pick. I reckon they'd be after quality not quantity.
Gives the Pies the 1st rounder they are reportedly interested in.

We end up with 21, 27, 30, 39

Gives us about 2000-2200 points after bids. Enough to match a bid for Dean in the 6-10 range and Ison in the 20s which is about right.

Plus another first rounder next year, for enhanced flexibility in trades/Cody bid matching.

I'd expect us to to take 9 and 11 to the draft and do it on the night.
 
Cowan weitering Dean
Newman Haynes florent
Hollands Cripps Cheeser
Elijah Harry. Ben Ainsworth
Williams Kemp. Hayward
Pitto
Walsh
Hewett

Bench
Cerra Sadd Jagga Motlop Moir
acres cottrell Lord Evan's

I’m hoping we keep E hollands on and he smashes preseason. We are definitely a better team with him playing fit. If he gets moved on I see Jagga starting in his role with regular on ball duties.

Kemp at full forward Showed some good signs. Hopefully can play round 1 will depend on his recovery.

Sadd on my bench Hoping he can turn things around. Or we can move him up the ground Wing. Up forward . A new lease for him.

I have Williams starting forward. I think with Newman back in the side and florent possibly starting down back as well. Williams could play down back again not getting the opposition best small/medium forward.

Swap with Sadd?

Williams could be used in more than just a forward role. I did also like Williams Attending more centre bounces and stoppages late in the season happy for him to do that Forward on ball role and give us a different look.

He gives us options still.

Motlop and Moir On my bench to add that extra bit of Flash and X factor. Hopeful big preseason new forward line coach and with Haywood, Ainsworth in the team they can learn off them.

If Kemp isn’t ready The options get a bit slim but all these man offer something. They will all fight for a spot.

Okeffe forward/ruck still needs further development in the VFL for me. Needs more size and work on his craft. But showed signs.

Young Mature age okay depth. Has his limitations but can take a big forward or backman. Pinch him in ruck. Will play games throughout the year.

McGovern with no Buku Is the leading chance to stay on. I can see him starting in Kemps spot.

Reidy is behind Pitto for me. Interesting to see though with no sub rule. could play an extra big.

Fighting for the bench spots

Acres Great work ethic runs hard defensively to cover wins contest and finds footy. But Kicking makes me spew up. Needs to improve this drastically.

Cottrell Great runner again . Maybe behind Jagga Ainsworth and Hayward in role.

Lord Offers Versatility Can play wing, Half back, inside mid, and tagger.

Needs more development in VFL And to find a role he can consistently lock down to be able to contribute at the top level. Stuck behind 5-7 in the midfield.

Frank the tank Played some shocking football until Steven May broke something in him.

Look unreal in the last couple of games of the year. But still not enough for me.

As he needed a contract. Chris Judd always said no one cares or remembers your first 5 games to start a season it’s the last 5 that will get you a contract extension on better money.

One to watch through the pre season though.
 
Gethelred said:
Okay.

Between Matt Owies, Corey Durdin and Charlie Curnow, we have lost 264 goals and 157 behinds, 263 tackles, and 89 goal assists from 144 games, bringing things to an average net loss of 1.83 goals per match, 1.09 behinds, 1.83 tackles and 0.62 goal assists per match over the last three seasons; in Owies' case, we've excluded his WC stats as they aren't equivalent to what he'd have gotten if we retained him, so his contribution is limited to a 2 year timeframe where the other two have their last three years. While we could include other stats like marks or I50's, this is more or less the raw offensive/defensive output of a forward.

Ben Aisworth has over the same timeframe has 60 goals, 38 behinds, 97 tackles and 35 goal assists over 62 matches. Will Hayward has 95 goals, 56 behinds, 193 tackles and 33 goal assists over 70 matches. This comes to a total of 155 goals, 94 behinds, 290 tackles and 78 goal assists over 132 matches, producing averages of 1.17 goals, 1.34 behinds, 1.46 tackles and 0.59 goal assists per match.

Now, it's pretty obvious here where we're going to look short next season: we're going to kick significantly less goals, be slightly less accurate, lay less tackles and be on par roughly as far as goal assists are concerned. We should - fingers crossed - get more games out of the two given the fact that we only achieved 144 games across 3 players and 8 years of footy, where Ainsworth and Hayward got to 132 in the same timeframe with just the two players.

The thing here is, we don't know who's going to be fronting up beside Harry next year or how Kemp will look in front of ball over the long term. A criticism that can be levied at this analysis is that I've analysed two small/mediums against 2 small/mediums and a KPP, but without knowing who that KPP will be replaced by we cannot know what stats to look at.

What this ultimately means is that we will need to change the method or, all things being equal, we will be short goals.
Click to expand...
I feel like this type of analysis is pretty pointless, beyond the fact that you're comparing the output of 3 players to that of two, there's also the fact that they're in completely different systems where each player gets completely different opportunities.

Curnow had the vast majority of forward entries directed his way. You don't lose those forward entries when he leaves they just get directed elsewhere. Look how much McKay improves when Curnow is out of the team.

Owies played in a Carlton team where he was the best of a terrible batch of small forwards, and kicked 74 goals in 3 years with plenty of ball directed his way. He then moved to West Coast & down the pecking order, where now he's managed 7 goals for the year.

On the flip side I would expect more opportunities going forward for McKay, Hayward & Ainsworth then they previously had & for their statistics to improve. Hopefully also for Kemp, Moir, etc. too.
 
marcmurphy3 said:
I could see us doing something like

Our Pick 11 + 43 for Essendon pick 21, 27 & 30
Our Pick 9 + Pick 54 for Pies F1 + 39

Gives the Bombers another top pick. I reckon they'd be after quality not quantity.
Gives the Pies the 1st rounder they are reportedly interested in.

We end up with 21, 27, 30, 39

Gives us about 2000-2200 points after bids. Enough to match a bid for Dean in the 6-10 range and Ison in the 20s which is about right.

Plus another first rounder next year, for enhanced flexibility in trades/Cody bid matching.

I'd expect us to to take 9 and 11 to the draft and do it on the night.
Click to expand...

I like this idea, but will Ess have enough picks to match for Sweid who's touted to go somewhere in the 20's?
 

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Gethelred said:
Okay.

Between Matt Owies, Corey Durdin and Charlie Curnow, we have lost 264 goals and 157 behinds, 263 tackles, and 89 goal assists from 144 games, bringing things to an average net loss of 1.83 goals per match, 1.09 behinds, 1.83 tackles and 0.62 goal assists per match over the last three seasons; in Owies' case, we've excluded his WC stats as they aren't equivalent to what he'd have gotten if we retained him, so his contribution is limited to a 2 year timeframe where the other two have their last three years. While we could include other stats like marks or I50's, this is more or less the raw offensive/defensive output of a forward.

Ben Aisworth has over the same timeframe has 60 goals, 38 behinds, 97 tackles and 35 goal assists over 62 matches. Will Hayward has 95 goals, 56 behinds, 193 tackles and 33 goal assists over 70 matches. This comes to a total of 155 goals, 94 behinds, 290 tackles and 78 goal assists over 132 matches, producing averages of 1.17 goals, 1.34 behinds, 1.46 tackles and 0.59 goal assists per match.

Now, it's pretty obvious here where we're going to look short next season: we're going to kick significantly less goals, be slightly less accurate, lay less tackles and be on par roughly as far as goal assists are concerned. We should - fingers crossed - get more games out of the two given the fact that we only achieved 144 games across 3 players and 8 years of footy, where Ainsworth and Hayward got to 132 in the same timeframe with just the two players.

The thing here is, we don't know who's going to be fronting up beside Harry next year or how Kemp will look in front of ball over the long term. A criticism that can be levied at this analysis is that I've analysed two small/mediums against 2 small/mediums and a KPP, but without knowing who that KPP will be replaced by we cannot know what stats to look at.

What this ultimately means is that we will need to change the method or, all things being equal, we will be short goals.
Click to expand...
Basing output on these stats is irrelevant -- look at the teams inside 50 count and goal conversion -- how many times targetted to how many goals scored -- also now depends a lot on how many times you play who .. McKay output been down since Charlie back in side do we factor that in ..
until they running around we won't know how it works out -- but losing owies and durdin for ainsworthabd Hayward ain't that bad..
Past results are indicators only -- also now have a five man bench how will teams exploit that..
personally I think it all looks ok only we need a kpd back up maybe a frost type.. Also need ball users like acres as back up not walk up.. hopefully some of the younger players really step up
 
marcmurphy3 said:
I could see us doing something like

Our Pick 11 + 43 for Essendon pick 21, 27 & 30
Our Pick 9 + Pick 54 for Pies F1 + 39

Gives the Bombers another top pick. I reckon they'd be after quality not quantity.
Gives the Pies the 1st rounder they are reportedly interested in.

We end up with 21, 27, 30, 39

Gives us about 2000-2200 points after bids. Enough to match a bid for Dean in the 6-10 range and Ison in the 20s which is about right.

Plus another first rounder next year, for enhanced flexibility in trades/Cody bid matching.

I'd expect us to to take 9 and 11 to the draft and do it on the night.
Click to expand...
The fact is, we will need to take at least 4 picks into the draft for matching and swapping purposes.

We have 2 spots available now.

Therefore 2 of the below will need to be delisted

Binns
Hollands
Mcgovern
Boyd.

If we take a DFA before the draft, then 3 will need to be delisted.

My bet is is will be 2 delisted.

Take a maximum of 3 in the draft, leaving 1 spot for a dfa post draft.
 
marcmurphy3 said:
I could see us doing something like

Our Pick 11 + 43 for Essendon pick 21, 27 & 30
Our Pick 9 + Pick 54 for Pies F1 + 39

Gives the Bombers another top pick. I reckon they'd be after quality not quantity.
Gives the Pies the 1st rounder they are reportedly interested in.

We end up with 21, 27, 30, 39

Gives us about 2000-2200 points after bids. Enough to match a bid for Dean in the 6-10 range and Ison in the 20s which is about right.

Plus another first rounder next year, for enhanced flexibility in trades/Cody bid matching.

I'd expect us to to take 9 and 11 to the draft and do it on the night.
Click to expand...
Essendon have Adam Sweid and Hussein El Achkar to consider early-ish in the second round, and the Pies won't go for that trade given the wheels are coming off a bit.

Need a different offer to Essendon, but they probably want to hang onto 2 of those picks. You'd imagine they'll be looking at back-to-back bids.
 
OUT:
  • TDK - B- grade
  • JSOS - C+ grade
  • Curnow - S grade (at his best)
  • Durdin - D grade
IN:
  • Ainsworth - B grade
  • Hayward - B+ grade
  • Florent - B grade
  • Reidy - D grade
  • Chesser - D+ grade

That's just based on their output in their careers so far. The good news is, even though Reidy and Chesser are currently D graders, they have a lot of potential to prove themselves. I'd expect that if Chesser can remain injury free and find form he could reach B grader levels. Reidy I'm not sure what his ceiling is, but a solid C+ grade would be more than handy. It's not like Durdin where we've probably seen enough at AFL level to say his ceiling is probably C grade if he can reach it.

Smith has A grade potential written all over him and he's basically like a new recruit too.
 
Jimmae said:
Essendon have Adam Sweid and Hussein El Achkar to consider early-ish in the second round, and the Pies won't go for that trade given the wheels are coming off a bit.

Need a different offer to Essendon, but they probably want to hang onto 2 of those picks. You'd imagine they'll be looking at back-to-back bids.
Click to expand...

There was a report the Pies were looking at trading for Hawks first pick (now ours) a few days ago so I reckon its a possibility.

Pies seem intent on doubling down so good chance they go for the sugar hit and aim to finish higher.
 

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marcmurphy3 said:
There was a report the Pies were looking at trading for Hawks first pick (now ours) a few days ago so I reckon its a possibility.

Pies seem intent on doubling down so good chance they go for the sugar hit and aim to finish higher.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, I'd just rather try and secure an asset ahead of Dean if at all possible, with Robey being my preference.

The Pies aren't guaranteed to slide, and a pick in the range we have guarantees them either Grijl or a forward option.
 

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We will not trade up with a team that hasn't got enough 2nd or 3rd rounders to ensure we can have enough points for bid matching.

And if we're going to trade up, we will want to make sure we can get the player we want. This has pick 2-4 written all over it and why I suggested earlier that we'd need to be creative and maybe see if we can include a third club like North.

Rich: #4 + #38 + F2
Carl: #9 + #11 + 27F1(Syd)

Carl: F2(Rich) + 27F3
North: #26 + #46

Leaves us with:

#4 + #26 + #38 + #43 + #46 + #54

After bid matching, and excluding #4 as we'll use it to pick up a player, our points situation then probably looks something like:

~#25 + ~#36 + ~#40 + ~#44 + ~#49 = ~1398

If Dean is bid on with pick 10 (Melbourne's current pick 7) then we'll have 1398 - 1148 = 250 points. Tack on another 84 points to that as per pick 18+ discount and we have 334 points to match with. Good enough to match a bid at pick 35, with only a 4 point deficit.
 
marcmurphy3 said:
There was a report the Pies were looking at trading for Hawks first pick (now ours) a few days ago so I reckon its a possibility.

Pies seem intent on doubling down so good chance they go for the sugar hit and aim to finish higher.
Click to expand...

Would be a very good move for us.

We don't have to muck around on draft night trying to trade up. We could even look at trading 11 down to get more points and just come home with Dean + Ison. Would be more than happy with that having banked another F1.
 
Blue_Fusion said:
Would be a very good move for us.

We don't have to muck around on draft night trying to trade up. We could even look at trading 11 down to get more points and just come home with Dean + Ison. Would be more than happy with that having banked another F1.
Click to expand...
It's great we've got a number of options that we can either trade beforehand or on draft nite.

Just speculating, I wouldn't be surprised if we made an audacious bid to trade up with either WCE or the Tiggs to target a player at the top of the board (hopefully Robey) similar to what we did with Jagga last year.

Alternatively, if we decide to go with what we have leading into the draft, and Dean gets bid on before pick 9, I have zero doubt there'll be an onslaught of clubs on the nite lined up to trade for the pick. List managers will see someone they're keen on still on the board and be prepared to pay overs - similar to Essendon a few years back when they gave up a 2nd round pick to move up one spot so they could get Caddy.
 
Blue_Fusion said:
OUT:
  • TDK - B- grade
  • JSOS - C+ grade
  • Curnow - S grade (at his best)
  • Durdin - D grade
IN:
  • Ainsworth - B grade
  • Hayward - B+ grade
  • Florent - B grade
  • Reidy - D grade
  • Chesser - D+ grade

That's just based on their output in their careers so far. The good news is, even though Reidy and Chesser are currently D graders, they have a lot of potential to prove themselves. I'd expect that if Chesser can remain injury free and find form he could reach B grader levels. Reidy I'm not sure what his ceiling is, but a solid C+ grade would be more than handy. It's not like Durdin where we've probably seen enough at AFL level to say his ceiling is probably C grade if he can reach it.

Smith has A grade potential written all over him and he's basically like a new recruit too.
Click to expand...

Interesting thoughts - I differ a little on the ratings, but I also have a slightly different scale which is:

A = when fit, almost guaranteed All-Australian (ie: close to best in the league at their position)
B = good quality, all round player. Holds down a spot and plays it well, can flex into other positions if needed. In their best season they might pop up to AA level (ie: once in their career) but they are behind other A graders who are just better at what they do
C = good role player. Limited to playing one position and looks a bit lost if forced outside that role, but plays every week when fit and can compete with anyone in the league reasonably well (even if A grade players might beat them)
D = can fill in (usually at one position), but either too young, or not good enough to hold spot for long. Can also be a talented jack-of-all-trades athlete without a position (eg: I think Andrej Everitt the all time example). Career backup or developing player
E = doesn't have a clear position or the physical attributes to really even trial in a spot.

A+ grade is reserved for A grade players who are league superstars - who have intangibles that lift their team to another level. Strangely, I think Judd was an A+ (our team got better the second he joined), but Cripps is just A. And yes, by this definition we only have ONE A-grader left on our list (Cripps), although if you want to argue Weitering hits that level I won't [ush back. For other grades, the + is there for players who might be the level above, but haven't shown it for long enough yet... the minus grade is for players who are at that level, but can't stay healthy.

I think on that rating scale our off-season is Out:
  • Curnow = A grade (when fit, he won 2 Coleman medals and was on track for a third...). Do his injury worries qualify him for 'minus' status? Hmmm...
  • TDK = B grade (he's fine, but is he what, the 5th best ruck in the league? 6th?)
  • JSOS = B minus. He's played multiple roles well, but has had a lot of injuries.
  • Durdin = D grade; honestly, he might be an E grade, but I think he just gets to the category of 'he can fill in at this spot, but not play for long' because of his strong 4 weeks after coming into the team this year

We also lost:
  • Docherty = B minus. He was the definition of a B grade player - one AA season, fantastic in his role, could pinch hit as a midfielder for a week or two, but injury issues let him down
  • Fantasia = C minus. When fit, he could play as a league average HFF... when fit...
  • Cincotta = probably a D minus this year - pretty good as a role player/fill-in, but with some injury worries the last two years
  • Lemmey = E grade. He had interesting attributes and was worth a punt, but never reached the point where he could even fill in as a key forward, unfortunately. Might be a late bloomer elsewhere - he could at least take a grab and hoof the ball a long way at the goals...

In:
  • Ainsworth = I think he is a C grade. He plays every week, he can play one role (half forward, pinch hit mid), he's fine.
  • Hayward = C grade. Same as above - he's absolutely fine, plays his spot every week, just a lock for 30-35 goals. Lovely
  • Florent = C grade. Same again. He's reliable and plays his spot. There's a definite pattern here...
  • Chesser = I actually think either a D+ or C-. He looks like a solid, every week wing (ie: C grade), but either hasn't done it quite long enough, or had too many injuries (take your pick). But if he stays healthy he will be a C grader.
  • Reidy = D grade. He absolutely looks like a perfect cheap backup ruck. Totally fine behind Pitto (who is a C grader).

Interestingly NOT in: Khamis = I think an E grader. He's too short for a KP role, too slow and lacks the skills to play on the wing, is clearly NOT a small forward... I think we only wanted him because we were a bit desperate for mature bodies (remember, all of Ainsworth/Haywood/Florent entered the mix late).

At the end of 2024, we were clearly too top heavy, with too many B graders earning big money AND too many of those injury prone. And so, there's a clear strategy - get rid of:
  • as many 'minus' players as possible to reduce the impact of injuries and build a bit of stability
  • avoid having B (and B minus!) players paid A grade money (a la TDK offer)
  • stack the list with a lot more C graders to (cheaply) add stability and consistency

And that make sense - I think it is better to have two C-grade players than a B-minus and a D grader. The c-grade players can just plug into the whiteboard and forget about them for 10 years. If you have a B-minus (ie: Jack Martin) and a D grade (Durdin), there's a big swing from one to the other when injuries hit. It's also much easier to bring young guys in alongisde C-graders (stability, predictability - play your role) and will make Voss's job a LOT easier.
 
btdg said:
Interesting thoughts - I differ a little on the ratings, but I also have a slightly different scale which is:

A = when fit, almost guaranteed All-Australian (ie: close to best in the league at their position)
B = good quality, all round player. Holds down a spot and plays it well, can flex into other positions if needed. In their best season they might pop up to AA level (ie: once in their career) but they are behind other A graders who are just better at what they do
C = good role player. Limited to playing one position and looks a bit lost if forced outside that role, but plays every week when fit and can compete with anyone in the league reasonably well (even if A grade players might beat them)
D = can fill in (usually at one position), but either too young, or not good enough to hold spot for long. Can also be a talented jack-of-all-trades athlete without a position (eg: I think Andrej Everitt the all time example). Career backup or developing player
E = doesn't have a clear position or the physical attributes to really even trial in a spot.

A+ grade is reserved for A grade players who are league superstars - who have intangibles that lift their team to another level. Strangely, I think Judd was an A+ (our team got better the second he joined), but Cripps is just A. And yes, by this definition we only have ONE A-grader left on our list (Cripps), although if you want to argue Weitering hits that level I won't [ush back. For other grades, the + is there for players who might be the level above, but haven't shown it for long enough yet... the minus grade is for players who are at that level, but can't stay healthy.

I think on that rating scale our off-season is Out:
  • Curnow = A grade (when fit, he won 2 Coleman medals and was on track for a third...). Do his injury worries qualify him for 'minus' status? Hmmm...
  • TDK = B grade (he's fine, but is he what, the 5th best ruck in the league? 6th?)
  • JSOS = B minus. He's played multiple roles well, but has had a lot of injuries.
  • Durdin = D grade; honestly, he might be an E grade, but I think he just gets to the category of 'he can fill in at this spot, but not play for long' because of his strong 4 weeks after coming into the team this year

We also lost:
  • Docherty = B minus. He was the definition of a B grade player - one AA season, fantastic in his role, could pinch hit as a midfielder for a week or two, but injury issues let him down
  • Fantasia = C minus. When fit, he could play as a league average HFF... when fit...
  • Cincotta = probably a D minus this year - pretty good as a role player/fill-in, but with some injury worries the last two years
  • Lemmey = E grade. He had interesting attributes and was worth a punt, but never reached the point where he could even fill in as a key forward, unfortunately. Might be a late bloomer elsewhere - he could at least take a grab and hoof the ball a long way at the goals...

In:
  • Ainsworth = I think he is a C grade. He plays every week, he can play one role (half forward, pinch hit mid), he's fine.
  • Hayward = C grade. Same as above - he's absolutely fine, plays his spot every week, just a lock for 30-35 goals. Lovely
  • Florent = C grade. Same again. He's reliable and plays his spot. There's a definite pattern here...
  • Chesser = I actually think either a D+ or C-. He looks like a solid, every week wing (ie: C grade), but either hasn't done it quite long enough, or had too many injuries (take your pick). But if he stays healthy he will be a C grader.
  • Reidy = D grade. He absolutely looks like a perfect cheap backup ruck. Totally fine behind Pitto (who is a C grader).

Interestingly NOT in: Khamis = I think an E grader. He's too short for a KP role, too slow and lacks the skills to play on the wing, is clearly NOT a small forward... I think we only wanted him because we were a bit desperate for mature bodies (remember, all of Ainsworth/Haywood/Florent entered the mix late).

At the end of 2024, we were clearly too top heavy, with too many B graders earning big money AND too many of those injury prone. And so, there's a clear strategy - get rid of:
  • as many 'minus' players as possible to reduce the impact of injuries and build a bit of stability
  • avoid having B (and B minus!) players paid A grade money (a la TDK offer)
  • stack the list with a lot more C graders to (cheaply) add stability and consistency

And that make sense - I think it is better to have two C-grade players than a B-minus and a D grader. The c-grade players can just plug into the whiteboard and forget about them for 10 years. If you have a B-minus (ie: Jack Martin) and a D grade (Durdin), there's a big swing from one to the other when injuries hit. It's also much easier to bring young guys in alongisde C-graders (stability, predictability - play your role) and will make Voss's job a LOT easier.
Click to expand...

Very hard on our new recruits calling them C grade.

By your own criteria they should be B grade.

They're better than just role players. None of them are limited to one position, and all of them can influence results in matches.
 
bluesDeluxe said:
The fact is, we will need to take at least 4 picks into the draft for matching and swapping purposes.

We have 2 spots available now.

Therefore 2 of the below will need to be delisted

Binns
Hollands
Mcgovern
Boyd.

If we take a DFA before the draft, then 3 will need to be delisted.

My bet is is will be 2 delisted.

Take a maximum of 3 in the draft, leaving 1 spot for a dfa post draft.
Click to expand...
We've only got 1 spot available now.
 
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