Strategy Trade and List Management Thread Part 8 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[_Mike_]

Opposition supporters coming to troll , you have been warned

 

[Here we go dogs]

VFL form is not a reliable indicator of AFL performance.

That is true. But Gardner has never been a brilliant vfl player. He was this year. That says to me there was some improvement.

 

[stevieg1969]

I don’t think these 2 understand how FA works. Zak will go to wherever he wants and PA will need to facilitate a trade (as per an uncontracted player which he will be) or accept the compo pick - or lose him for free in the PSD. Limiting it to Carlton, Hawthorn and Essendon (and Melbourne) is wishful thinking. Am I missing something here?

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

I don’t think these 2 understand how FA works. Zak will go to wherever he wants and PA will need to facilitate a trade (as per an uncontracted player which he will be) or accept the compo pick - or lose him for free in the PSD. Limiting it to Carlton, Hawthorn and Essendon (and Melbourne) is wishful thinking. Am I missing something here?

It’s Kane Cornes mate. He thinks we are the most disgusting club in the league, he can’t even imagine anyone ever wanting to come here.

 

[dergert]

I don’t think these 2 understand how FA works. Zak will go to wherever he wants and PA will need to facilitate a trade (as per an uncontracted player which he will be) or accept the compo pick - or lose him for free in the PSD. Limiting it to Carlton, Hawthorn and Essendon (and Melbourne) is wishful thinking. Am I missing something here?

What did Kornes say?

 

[Here we go dogs]

The club has tied itself in knots over a very long period of time trying to bring out Ryan Gardner’s potential. He has been given more opportunities based on less AFL level performance evidence than any player in history, and ultimately for very little reward.

Sometimes things just don’t work out despite the best intentions and efforts of all involved.

I think it would be far more prudent for the club and Ryan to part ways now, rather than keep him until the end of his contract. We already have too many players on the list that we don't expect to play in our senior side next year, and that is before we draft a new bunch of young recruits.

Gardner's continued presence on the list adds too much complexity to the task of plotting out KPD player development strategies around him than his playing record suggests is warranted.

Keeping non-established players on the list for too long could also arguably set a bad example to new recruits, potentially misleading them to thinking they have more time to make it that they really do.

For example, I think Busslinger is already running out of time to make it at AFL level and Gardner pre-dates him by a long way.

He’s played one game in two years. I wouldn’t say that’s tying yourself in a knot.

Regarding delistings, if you’re recruiting someone as a two-year project (2 year guarantee contract), you need to be confident they’ll offer more over that period or into the future than the players you’re delisting.

Recruiters need to have a player in mind rather just delisting for the sake of turnover. By all reports this is a very week draft.

 

[stevieg1969]

What did Kornes say?

That us, Geelong and Collingwood won’t have the picks to satisfy PA but Carlton, Essendon, Hawthorn and Melbourne will.

 

[VitalDread]

I wouldn't be shocked if Dogs trade out first rounder for 2026 first rounder

 

[doggiesin08]

I wouldn't be shocked if Dogs trade out first rounder for 2026 first rounder

Definitely prefer this option. We’ll have enough young kids getting games next year from our last draft crop + Croft + Buss + Sanders didn’t play the last round, etc. Prefer the extra currency for Butters and our host of potential FS/NGAs.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Wasn’t Sam Darcy a back man before he swung forward? Should we just throw him back, or is Naughton better suited?

Throw Darcy AND Naughton back and let the goals take care of themselves

 

[doggiesin08]

I don’t think these 2 understand how FA works. Zak will go to wherever he wants and PA will need to facilitate a trade (as per an uncontracted player which he will be) or accept the compo pick - or lose him for free in the PSD. Limiting it to Carlton, Hawthorn and Essendon (and Melbourne) is wishful thinking. Am I missing something here?

Yes, but they can play chicken with him on whether he’d rather go to (most likely) West Coast for a year through the PSD before getting back to Melbourne.

If he wants to get to his preferred club his manager needs to get on the phone to whoever takes to spoon to have them offer him a 1-year deal with a promise to trade him for a single top-10 pick the following year - it would basically be pick purchasing for the Eagles. Once that’s a credible threat the trade price drops.

It’s also important that Butters takes comfort in the fact he gave them > 12 months notice of his intention so they had the chance to do a trade this year without the FA angle and they ruled it out.

 

[Philthy1]

I wouldn't be shocked if Dogs trade out first rounder for 2026 first rounder

Suggests we have already had a conversation with Port about what it might take to get Butters.

Tallies with what Regan said about planning for future trade periods.

 

[go the dogs]

I wouldn't be shocked if Dogs trade out first rounder for 2026 first rounder

Wonder if north back themselves in. Our first for there first next year.

 

[House_of_Dahl]

I don’t think these 2 understand how FA works. Zak will go to wherever he wants and PA will need to facilitate a trade (as per an uncontracted player which he will be) or accept the compo pick - or lose him for free in the PSD. Limiting it to Carlton, Hawthorn and Essendon (and Melbourne) is wishful thinking. Am I missing something here?

He is a restricted free agent, so Port still have the right to match a contract. But yeah he doesn't have to accept their contract and then it's draft, but he doesn't seem like he'd do that.

Dream scenario is Port somehow finish bottom 4 then we don't lose a pick at all.

Otherwise we offer 3 firsts which is all we reasonably can, and I think would have to eventually be accepted as he's out of contract (if he nominates us).

 

[Mojorisin]

I wouldn't be shocked if Dogs trade out first rounder for 2026 first rounder

Wouldn't mind that at all, I'd happily take the last two picks in the draft (70 & 74) considering there is going to be less then 60 taken and aggressively attack next years draft.

 

[MaxiBont]

I wouldn't be shocked if Dogs trade out first rounder for 2026 first rounder

I assume we’d have to give up another later future pick for this.

Seems like no one wants firsts in this draft.

 

[Proffessor]

He’s played one game in two years. I wouldn’t say that’s tying yourself in a knot.

Regarding delistings, if you’re recruiting someone as a two-year project (2 year guarantee contract), you need to be confident they’ll offer more over that period or into the future than the players you’re delisting.

Recruiters need to have a player in mind rather just delisting for the sake of turnover. By all reports this is a very week draft.

He has been with the club since 2019, and a bunch of other (often better) players have indeed been pushed out of their preferred positions and then the club to accommodate him in the team/list, presumably in the hope that one day things will click for Ryan and it will have all been worth it.

He has been given long runs of games where his form suggested he should have been dropped much sooner but it appears they were keen to build his confidence through strong displays of faith in him.

There have even been some dubiously generous B&F voting results, that looked as if they might have been aimed at building his confidence.

Not to mention the extensions that have him on contract till next year even though he has only had 1 senior game over the past two years.

Each list spot is valuable, as is each team selection, AFL and VFL, and heavily competed for. If he is selected in a position it means someone else isn’t.

Each listed player deserves and demands their fair share of attention from the coaches.

The investment in him has been enormous, but faith, resources and patience are finite.

 

[yebach]

He has been with the club since 2019, and a bunch of other (often better) players have indeed been pushed out of their preferred positions and then the club to accommodate him in the team/list, presumably in the hope that one day things will click for Ryan and it will have all been worth it.

He has been given long runs of games where his form suggested he should have been dropped much sooner but it appears they were keen to build his confidence through strong displays of faith in him.

There have even been some dubiously generous B&F voting results, that looked as if they might have been aimed at building his confidence.

Not to mention the extensions that have him on contract till next year even though he has only had 1 senior game over the past two years.

Each list spot is valuable, as is each team selection, AFL and VFL, and heavily competed for. If he is selected in a position it means someone else isn’t.

Each listed player deserves and demands their fair share of attention from the coaches.

The investment in him has been enormous, but faith, resources and patience are finite.

How much responsibility does Bevo take for all you've just listed?
And some of the other baffling decisions re team selection and gifting some players games and others not having the same opportunity?
Remember, this is the man that pulled rank and chose Gowers, against the recruiters wishes.

 

[doggiesin08]

He is a restricted free agent, so Port still have the right to match a contract. But yeah he doesn't have to accept their contract and then it's draft, but he doesn't seem like he'd do that.

Dream scenario is Port somehow finish bottom 4 then we don't lose a pick at all.

Otherwise we offer 3 firsts which is all we reasonably can, and I think would have to eventually be accepted as he's out of contract (if he nominates us).

This post from a few pages back is hugely relevant to consider in any Butters trade. Even if we are going to "trade" for him it makes no sense to not effect the deal still via FA to magic the compensation pick into existence and share that value to cross the "bid-ask" spread that might otherwise exist.

Then we do a deal with Port where we take him under FA and then we trade with them what our offer would be for their FA compo pick. It makes no sense for the two clubs to mutually agree to something but not acquire the compo and somehow split it between ourselves in a deal.

 

[Astro_]

Wasn’t Sam Darcy a back man before he swung forward? Should we just throw him back, or is Naughton better suited?

Throw them both back and aim to win 4 goals to 3

 

[Scholzy6]

Inside information :Sam Darcy Linked with hawthorn, could be a mega deal that could look at up to 10 million over 4 years. Just though you guys should know.
P.s. Buku still wants out.

 

[Scholzy6]

Breaking news: Sam Darcy Linked with hawthorn, could be a mega deal that could look at up to 10 million over 4 years. Just though you guys should know.
P.s. Buku still wants out.

Info from hawthorn list manager linked to a mate of mine

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Inside information :Sam Darcy Linked with hawthorn, could be a mega deal that could look at up to 10 million over 4 years. Just though you guys should know.
P.s. Buku still wants out.

Cool

Is this after 2029 when he comes out of contract?

 

[Scholzy6]

Cool

Is this after 2029 when he comes out of contract?

I think they are looking to offer a trade in next years trade period.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

I think they are looking to offer a trade in next years trade period.

Interesting

Wonder if we can get Cam McKenzie out or if we’ll have to settle for Henry Hustwaite

 

[Proffessor]

How much responsibility does Bevo take for all you've just listed?
And some of the other baffling decisions re team selection and gifting some players games and others not having the same opportunity?
Remember, this is the man that pulled rank and chose Gowers, against the recruiters wishes.

A fair chunk.

Although it is his role as a coach to make such calls. Sometimes they get it right, sometimes they don't.