List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion - Part V

[Hubnester]

2025 List Management Discussion - Part 5

Now that our season is over, and news is starting to break - it's time for a fresh thread.

This thread is to discuss all things list management - trades, draft, free agency, delistings and more.
As we are now officially in our off-season, we'll be wanting to keep this thread more strictly on-topic than the previous iterations.
Be respectful. You are allowed to disagree with someone - but play the ball, not the man. Repeat offenders will have their posting rights revoked.

Thanks to Lore once again for this incredibly useful spreadsheet.

2025 KEY DATES
Free Agency Period: Friday, October 3rd - Friday, October 10th
Trade Period: Monday, October 6th - Wednesday, October 15th
AFL Draft: Wednesday, November 19th - Thursday, November 20th

See Also:
2025 Year in Review Rumours & Confirmed Movements 2025 Draft Discussion
​

 

[sauce_head]

On SOO... WA are going to get smashed.

I loved SOO, but must admit my first thought was, NAS is from SA, phew, he is not going to play…

 

[Saintbloke]

The Melbourne game in the last quarter it was Hall that got 1st clearance 3 times at centre bounce and dished off to NAS

Hall is quality and the best pickup we have had in a long while. The last quarter of that Melbourne game, everyone was focussed on Nas, but I thought Hall's work, plus Sharman's two inspirational goals set it up for a win, and Nas was the cream on top.

 

[Mowman]

Hall is quality and the best pickup we have had in a long while. The last quarter of that Melbourne game, everyone was focussed on Nas, but I thought Hall's work, plus Sharman's two inspirational goals set it up for a win, and Nas was the cream on top.

Was reported that Halls centre and clearance work that day had a bit to do with Steeles papers being stamped

 

[Joffaboy]

I reckon Lyon was stung by being called boring to watch. He keeps going for glitter over grind players lately. Ross 1.0 would have wanted 22 B grade workhorses.

Lyon could not GAF what anyone labelled him.
He has been drilling his defensive system into this list for two years. He has been called boring his whole coaching career even when the 2009 era Saints kicked 15 plus goals regularly.
He has built a very flexible running team. Our mids are not one paced anymore and we have a range of players who can run through there including Ryan.
We recruited a back, a mid, a ruck and a forward only Ryan is really flashy.
I know you are being light-hearted about v1.0 wanting 22 b graders. When you look at 2009 we would have about 6 players who would be our best player in this group. It was our bottom 6 that tapered dramatically.
Name our bottom six this list and if we had them in 2009-10, we win two flags comfortably.

 

[The Punter]

Lyon could not GAF what anyone labelled him.
He has been drilling his defensive system into this list for two years. He has been called boring his whole coaching career even when the 2009 era Saints kicked 15 plus goals regularly.
He has built a very flexible running team. Our mids are not one paced anymore and we have a range of players who can run through there including Ryan.
We recruited a back, a mid, a ruck and a forward only Ryan is really flashy.
I know you are being light-hearted about v1.0 wanting 22 b graders. When you look at 2009 we would have about 6 players who would be our best player in this group. It was our bottom 6 that tapered dramatically.
Name our bottom six this list and if we had them in 2009-10, we win two flags comfortably.

Ok, let's do this. 2009/2025 combined side. I'm not going to include recruits who are yet to play for the club - let's generate some discussion about where they might land. 2009 guys in bold.

Baker Wilkie Fisher
Goddard Blake Sinclair
NWM Dal Santo Montagna
Hall Riewoldt Steele
Milne Koschitzke Schneider
Marshall Hayes Macrae
Gardiner Gilbert Gram Higgins

 

[Bill Crouse]

Ok, let's do this. 2009/2025 combined side. I'm not going to include recruits who are yet to play for the club - let's generate some discussion about where they might land. 2009 guys in bold.

Baker Wilkie Fisher
Goddard Blake Sinclair
NWM Dal Santo Montagna
Hall Riewoldt Steele
Milne Koschitzke Schneider
Marshall Hayes Macrae
Gardiner Gilbert Gram Higgins

Based on his 2025 season I don't think Steele could be picked, especially because he barely played any time as a half forward. Maybe Owens or Sharman to replace him.

 

[sauce_head]

Ok, let's do this. 2009/2025 combined side. I'm not going to include recruits who are yet to play for the club - let's generate some discussion about where they might land. 2009 guys in bold.

Baker Wilkie Fisher
Goddard Blake Sinclair
NWM Dal Santo Montagna
Hall Riewoldt Steele
Milne Koschitzke Schneider
Marshall Hayes Macrae
Gardiner Gilbert Gram Higgins

I’ll take it!

 

[Sainttony]

Gin

Ginnivan
Sam Mitchell
James Sicily
Bailey Smith
Damien Barrett (C)
Andrew Mackie
Kai Loman
Jordan Lewis
Kane Cornes
Chad Cornes
Hutchy (VC)

That dude from Haw with the rats tail.

 

[sauce_head]

Based on his 2025 season I don't think Steele could be picked, especially because he barely played any time as a half forward. Maybe Owens or Sharman to replace him.

And or if we’d give Max a run at FF and play aground with Kosi at CHB (you know, those three games…). But on strict 2025 v 2009 form, it’s a good team.

 

[sauce_head]

Gin

Ginnivan
Sam Mitchell
James Sicily
Bailey Smith
Damien Barrett (C)
Andrew Mackie
Kai Loman
Jordan Lewis
Kane Cornes
Chad Cornes
Hutchy (VC)

Special advisor and life member: Lame Turd.

 

[karnaby]

If:

NAS, Hall, King, Pou, TDK, Ryan, Wilkie, Flanders, Windy, Tauru, Higgins, Owens, Wilson, Marshall, Sinclair are all fit and firing next year.

Then:

The Saints marketing team will have the easiest gig in the world.

AND.....if they're all fit and firing that only leaves room for 8 more players with plenty of players vying for those 8 spots, some of whom will play specific roles such as JSOS and maybe Howard.

Competition for spots will be very important in our overall development.

 

[L_W_P]

Lyon could not GAF what anyone labelled him.
He has been drilling his defensive system into this list for two years. He has been called boring his whole coaching career even when the 2009 era Saints kicked 15 plus goals regularly.
He has built a very flexible running team. Our mids are not one paced anymore and we have a range of players who can run through there including Ryan.
We recruited a back, a mid, a ruck and a forward only Ryan is really flashy.
I know you are being light-hearted about v1.0 wanting 22 b graders. When you look at 2009 we would have about 6 players who would be our best player in this group. It was our bottom 6 that tapered dramatically.
Name our bottom six this list and if we had them in 2009-10, we win two flags comfortably.

2009 - Out v In
Dawson v Caminiti
Ray v Hill
McQualter v Henry
Ball v Garcia
Clarke v Clark
Dempster v Owens/Sharman*

Probably a wash in terms of talent but the 09 boys definitely win the tactical battle. I'm assuming Owens plays the defense forward role that Dempster tried to play on Mackie otherwise it's Sharman as a genuine attacking threat.

2010 - Out v In
Dawson v Caminiti
Eddy v Garcia
Ray v Hill
Peake v Wilson
McQualter v Henry
Gwilt v Sharman

This looks far closer in terms of actual impact.

Jimmy Gwilt not playing forward in 09/10 was a huge blunder IMO. We started 2009 with him as a 3rd tall next to Kosi and Roo and then just... stopped.

Put Sharman in that spot and we look pretty damn dangerous.

Again, we should be genuinely excited by this team. If Fincher can be another Windhager in terms of development from our NGA then it's a free swing.

We just need some luck with injuries and a decent draw and away we go!

 

[sammm]

They planned for three years for this year’s trade time. I’m agreeing with you - definitely planning ahead.

i thought it was 4 years of draft picks ?

 

[SainterinSydney]

Seeing Will Phillips get delisted by Norf, I had another look at the 2020 AFL Draft--it's a bit of a stinker except a few:

 

[thekizzler]

Seeing Will Phillips get delisted by Norf, I had another look at the 2020 AFL Draft--it's a bit of a stinker except a few:

View attachment 2463323

Who is the only player in the top 26 of that draft without a Wikipedia page?

 

[ScrappyDo]

Seeing Will Phillips get delisted by Norf, I had another look at the 2020 AFL Draft--it's a bit of a stinker except a few:

View attachment 2463323

A very high delinquency rate amongst that group.

 

[LH7]

Ok, let's do this. 2009/2025 combined side. I'm not going to include recruits who are yet to play for the club - let's generate some discussion about where they might land. 2009 guys in bold.

Baker Wilkie Fisher
Goddard Blake Sinclair
NWM Dal Santo Montagna
Hall Riewoldt Steele
Milne Koschitzke Schneider
Marshall Hayes Macrae
Gardiner Gilbert Gram Higgins

appreciate the exercise and the effort but it's not the right time to compare a young team (that came 12th) to our best team ever. Will be interesting to compare after 2027.

 

[ScrappyDo]

appreciate the exercise and the effort but it's not the right time to compare a young team (that came 12th) to our best team ever. Will be interesting to compare after 2027.

I reckon old mate can do whatever the f*** he wants TBH.

 

[westernsainter]

I think Windy is an elite two way mid right now, perhaps he hasnt done it for long enough but im happy to call it.

I'm all for a bit of off-season positivity but calling Windy an elite two-way mid is pushing it. He's got some exciting attributes but he has a long way to go before being anywhere near elite.

 

[The Punter]

appreciate the exercise and the effort but it's not the right time to compare a young team (that came 12th) to our best team ever. Will be interesting to compare after 2027.

There's no games, no trades, no fixture and no drafting right now. What else are we supposed to do?

 

[Saintos The ITK]

I'm all for a bit of off-season positivity but calling Windy an elite two-way mid is pushing it. He's got some exciting attributes but he has a long way to go before being anywhere near elite.

Wonder how much he ended up reaming the salary cap for??
He’s got a bit to live up to next year.

 

[gringo2011]

I think people put far too many prerequisites into the mix when discussing who is elite and who isn’t.

For me, tiering should in my eyes is as below:

• Superstars / A+
• Elite position players / A
• very good position players / -A or B+

Etc.

Nas is a superstar
But Wilkie Sinclair argument to make about Marshall and TDK as A graders.

Flanders 2024 is definitely an A Grader.

And this will cause division. But if JSOS is as good as the data that that’s been mentioned by the club a handful of times now. If he stays fit has to be considered an A grade back.

Then there like 10-15 blokes who are probably B graders with A ceilings. Windhager is somewhere in here to circle back to the discussion on hand. I’m not sure he makes it as an A grade footballer. But depending on role if he cleans up his disposal and starts having impact forward of the centre with consistency or he ramps up the tackles and clearances alongside his disposal numbers. Why not?

JSOS has had A grade patches but probably around St Kilda Mason Wood level. At his best looks absolutely A grade. I think he falls to a solid B overall though.

Windy is still super young. Nearly impossible to tell how far he can go still. Matt Rowell and Hayden Young types were getting less touches than him at the same age.

His best footy was on a wing or as a stopper. Probably needs a more defined role now.

To me A grade is simply top 5 in the comp by position. Elite is elite which is superstar class like Bont, Buddy, Danger etc. Sincs, Wilkie and maybe just Marshall probably qualify as A grade at their best. People underrate Marshall after a quiet year.

 

[Leap of Faith]

Ive never understood the hatred for Selwood. Unbeileveable player, tough as nails, great captain and seemingly great guy.

Love this, all for it frankly.

Selwood was a whinger when things didn't go his way. Played almost his entire career, if not all, with a team playing finals. Four premierships. Captain. Yep all of that. He only played in a successful team. Yet if things didn't go his way on field, he didn't just suck it up and get on with it, he whinged like a little bitch. This, in the light of all his success, painted him as an entitled little twat. Can't stand him.

 

[sauce_head]

Selwood was a whinger when things didn't go his way. Played almost his entire career, if not all, with a team playing finals. Four premierships. Captain. Yep all of that. He only played in a successful team. Yet if things didn't go his way on field, he didn't just suck it up and get on with it, he whinged like a little bitch. This, in the light of all his success, painted him as an entitled little twat. Can't stand him.

Agree entirely. He made the game less safe for a generation of players by deliberately cheating by instigating head high contact. Then of course the AFL media all say “he’s so tough”. Well, no, he’s a cheat. It’s statistically significant and the AFL has been trying to clean up that mess ever since.

Edit: sorry 6.4 standard deviations away! SIX POINT FOUR!!!

Joel Selwood has set a new AFL free kick record

No-one seems to have noticed that Joel Selwood claimed the AFL free kicks record last week

thearcfooty.com

 

[ScrappyDo]

There's no games, no trades, no fixture and no drafting right now. What else are we supposed to do?

I'm passing the time by trying to wind up grumpy old farts. Sorry, l mean ITK's..