Moved Thread Blues mascot 'Captain Carlton' sacked after walking out of Bar Mitzvah and comments about Zionists.

[Lsta062]

Sorry, are you talking about before or after the ceasefire?

Tbh I only know about before the ceasefire, but I won’t be surprised if this support is ongoing to test Hamas. Would be good to confirm if something like this has happened. The Israeli government definitely has form for this because Hamas itself started off backed by them.

In a couple of years, don’t be surprised if the militia groups they backed are labelled terrorist groups

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Any defence force that is taking out Hamas is by definition, the good guys.

What, by blowing up hospitals, cutting off aid to women and children, and then slaying humanitarian volunteers?
All while their leaders are perpetually playing the victim.

 

[Toump Ass]

1. Civilians die in every war but not every war = genocide

60,000 killed (30,000 women and children), 1.8 million displaced from their homes.
Sounds pretty genocidal to me!

2. Did they not just re-open the land when they release the 2000+ prisoners as part of the ceasefire deal(which Hamas immediately broke)

Ahhh no I don't think freedom of movement is assured for the Palestinians just yet? Their land is still illegally occupied by Israel. This is pretty basic, established facts here.

3. How have they blocked food?

Very easily. Israel control the border crossings into Gaza, enforce a naval blockade, have destroyed Gaza's airport.
Restricting movement in and out of Gaza is very simple for them.

Now, if you want to claim Israel's war is a genocide against Hamas, I'll wholeheartedly agree with you, just like Hamas' mission statement is to kill all Jews.

Actually, Hamas amended their mission statement (I googled it!) a few years ago.
The original charter was aimed at Jews. The current charter, from 2017, is anti-Zionist.

Big difference!! (I think).

I just want to know why you obsess over the 'genocide' of Gazans so much whilst you happily ignore the actual one going on inside China for the past decade.

What makes you think I obsess over the Palestinian conflict, or that I am happily ignoring China?
Why do you want to talk so much about Uyghurs anyway?

 

[Chief]

Anti-Zionists are anti-Jews.

They just throw the word Zionist in there so they can try and get away with it.

It's why the only situation like this out of many in the world they are protesting about is the one the Jews are involved in.

Suspicious as all ****.

Bosto with the lulz.

 

[The Unforgiven]

In 1967 Gaza the West Bank and East Jerusalem were not controlled by 'Palestine".

The Israelis fought Egypt, Jordan and Syria who controlled those lands. They ended up with the spoils of that war.

Looks like you want them to give up the Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian controlled regions.

I am well aware of the history.

Let me ask you, do you believe in International Law? Not its existence, but its objectives?

If you don't, then okay, you believe "might makes right" and law of the jungle is it.

If you do, then your position that Israel would be giving something up is fundamentally at odds with international law.

Under International law, Israel is occupying Palestinian territories of Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem.

The reason we're having this discussion is because the occupation is the root cause of all these problems.

Do you acknowledge that the occupation is the root cause of this conflict? Or do you think it's simply because "Arabs hate Jews"?

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Bosto with the lulz.

100% these takes are laughable, but it is terrifying that this very attitude of anti- Zion = anti- Semite is being pushed and legislated around in the mainstream.

 

[The Unforgiven]

Thanks. I’m well aware of all of that.

Doesn’t disprove that if Hamas had disbanded on 6th Oct instead of what they did on the 7th Oct, approx 60,000 more Palestinians would be alive.

Does it?

No. It does not.

If the Zionist state dismantled itself on October 6th then 60,000 fewer Palestinians would be dead. We can both frame things in silly ways and ignore the reality of the situation.

The problem here is that your point is predicated on the notion that Hamas is the cause of the conflict. Hamas is the symptom, not the cause. Hamas was formed as a resistance movement to Zionist occupation.

What do you think happens to people when they're oppressed, subjugated, dehumanised? They resist. When a group is under brutal occupation, they are entitled under international law to resist their occupation.

Unfortunately, when people look to resistance groups under these circumstances, it's the most violent extreme susbset of society which will gain the most legitimacy. This is a simple reality, and no group of humans would be any different.

Hamas was created 20 years after Israeli occupation of the Palestinian territories. Israel had an opportunity after taking the lands in the six-day war, to broker peace by helping to facilitate a Palestinian state.

Okay, so I'm a realist and I know that is simply fantasy. But, the equation then becomes simple. Without a legitimate pathway to self determination, violence and resistance is the only inevitable outcome.

October 7th was sadly an inevitable outcome. An outcome of an occupation which has spanned 20 years longer than Hamas' creation. Think about that for a minute.

 

[The Unforgiven]

FYI, the below is Hamas' official goals.

So when their stated goal is 'destroying Israel as a political entity' by taking over Israel as a Palestinian state, do you think recognising them within the '67 borders would placate them whatsoever?

https://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/what-australia-is-doing/terrorist-organisations/listed-terrorist-organisations/hamas#:~:text=Hamas'%20overarching%20goal%20is%20to,in%20pursuit%20of%20its%20goals.

I'm nor going to defend Hamas, not am I going to comment on their original charter. Hamas only exists because of Israel's occupation. Hamas was born out of the struggle of Palestinian self-determination.

If the conditions for resistance cease to exist, a group like Hamas has no legitimacy to exist. If Israel had relinquished the lands to an international peacekeeping force in order to foster Palestinian self-determination within the green line, Hamas would never exist.

 

[bzparkes]

I'm nor going to defend Hamas, not am I going to comment on their original charter. Hamas only exists because of Israel's occupation. Hamas was born out of the struggle of Palestinian self-determination.

Hamas came to power immediately after Israel withdrew from Gaza.

If the conditions for resistance cease to exist, a group like Hamas has no legitimacy to exist. If Israel had relinquished the lands to an international peacekeeping force in order to foster Palestinian self-determination within the green line, Hamas would never exist.

Perhaps you should familiarise yourself with the Palestinian cause and everything they involved themselves with after the end of WW2.

 

[The Unforgiven]

What do you mean 'as well'?

Where have I ever said I supported the war, other than in your own head?

As an aside, I'd very much say that the Palestinians on the West Bank have way more right to be aggrieved with Israel, considering the constant expansion by Jewish settlers that goes on to this day. I find it appalling and if October 7 was done by them and not the Gazans, I could probably have more understanding why, even though I obviously wouldn't agree with it.

Israeli occupation of Gaza ended in the mid 00's and they've been run by a terrorist group ever since. Egypt have even more of a security presence on the Gaza border than Israel do, so it appears to be a joint effort.

There's a reason no Arab state will accept Palestinian refugees and it boils down to the takeover of Lebanon, the attempted coup of Jordan by the PLA and the Kuwaitis kicking them out of their country after they supported Iraq in the first Gulf War, amongst other attemepted insurrections.

The Palestinians don't live in great conditions, it's obviously true, but it takes 2 to tango and if Israel wasn't a Jewish state but an Arab one, then they would've ceased to exist decades ago.

Gaza's occupation never ended. Gaza has been under a military siege since the mid 2000s, with access vis air, sea and road blockaded by Israel.

Egypt's balls are in the hands of America, and America's balls are in the hands of AIPAC, so it's little wonder that the Egyptians play nice.

You're presenting Palestinians as though they're some uniquely violent race that cannot be reasoned with and can never be trusted.

Does it come as any surprise to you that Palestinians might be more violent than, say, Jordanians?

They're pretty much the same people, just on a different side of the river. One group has full rights within their own state, the other is occupied.

Why do you think other Arab countries don't want to take in Palestinians? What, you think it's just because they're violent??

Of course, I'm nor denying that taking in Palestinians (Jordan has taken in a hell of a lot already) doesn’t come with risks of spillovers of resistance.

However, the biggest concern with taking in Palestinians is that within any Arab society, it looks like the leaders are facilitating ethnic cleansing.

How do you think the fragile règimes would look to the citizens of these countries? Most are teetering on a very delicate tightrope, propped up my America to play nice.

 

[The Unforgiven]

Hamas came to power immediately after Israel withdrew from Gaza.



Perhaps you should familiarise yourself with the Palestinian cause and everything they involved themselves with after the end of WW2.

Hamas' creation cooncided with the first intifada in 1987.

Why do you frame everything as though it's the Palestinians' fault?

Shall we go into the violent Zionist malitias that wreaked havoc on the Arab population leading up to the creation of Israel?

After the Nakba, what do you really expect would happen. I don't get how you don't see the inevitability of it all?

 

[Hydatina Physis]

Quality hit piece from the fair and trustworthy Herald Sun. Struck gold with the photo.

 

[EconomicDecline]

It is reported the IDF actually killed a sizeable portion of those ~1,100 people killed on October 7 2023 by employing the Hannibal Directive. Deaths are still deaths, but the death toll would likely have been significantly lower if they didn’t do that.

Had to give those hundreds of vehicles proper burial rights straight away. Any analysis of how those vehicles were damaged and occupants killed? No. That would be disrespectful. We must bury them for the fist time ever in Israeli history “In order to preserve the sanctity of the deceased”.

 

[EconomicDecline]

Lock up the men in 're-education' camps, sterilised a great deal of their women, r*ped the others so they could have Chinese children. Locked up children separately in their own camps, destroyed all Mosques, or converted them into nightclubs and such.

The Uyghurs have been effectively destroyed as a culture and people and not one protest in the west made the news about it.

Imagine believing this.

 

[Cyber_punk]

Quality hit piece from the fair and trustworthy Herald Sun. Struck gold with the photo.


View attachment 2463625

The clues were always there!

 

[bzparkes]

Gaza's occupation never ended. Gaza has been under a military siege since the mid 2000s, with access vis air, sea and road blockaded by Israel.

You forgot to mention that Egypt does the same thing on their side.

Egypt's balls are in the hands of America, and America's balls are in the hands of AIPAC, so it's little wonder that the Egyptians play nice.

A convenient out. Maybe they just don't like them, considering they were offered the land back and refused to take it? They've refused a few times to take back administrative rights over Gaza, after all. They had them between 1948-1967.

Now, I get that their official stance is that they are concerned that it could lead to relocating the Palestinians from Gaza to the Sinai peninsula and yes, I can certainly acknowledge that as a legitimate concern.

However on the flip side, there is simply no benefit to Egypt to have control over Gaza and burdening themselves with that issue, even though they were offered recently to manage the Gaza strip for up to 15 years in exchange for cancelling their external debt.

You're presenting Palestinians as though they're some uniquely violent race that cannot be reasoned with and can never be trusted.

I am merely pointing out that based on recent history in the region, other Arab nations are inherently distrustful of them.

Does it come as any surprise to you that Palestinians might be more violent than, say, Jordanians?

They tried to overthrow the Jordanian monarchy and take control of their country. Check out the 'Black September' conflict of 1970.

They're pretty much the same people, just on a different side of the river. One group has full rights within their own state, the other is occupied.

They weren't originally occupied until they waged numerous wars on Israel after it's creation and lost every single one, sometimes after dragging neighbouring nations into their conflict. Certainly I agree things could've been handled much, much better than they were when the Belfour accord was created and after 1948 but they weren't and here we are. It's important to note that the Palestinians have rejected a 2-state solution every time it's been suggested.

It's also important to note that Jews in Europe were moving to Israel as early as the 1920s to avoid rising persecution even back then and its population exploded after their for for 'Independence'(which was really about establishing the statehood the UN signed off on in '48) because all the Arab nations kicked the Jews out and they had nowhere else to go.

Why do you think other Arab countries don't want to take in Palestinians? What, you think it's just because they're violent??

Again, you're showing your ignorance of recent history. Palestinians fled to Lebanon in big numbers, who took them in, created Hezbollah and controlled the country using a proxy terror regime. This happened after the 1967 war. The demographic massively changed and Beirut, once known as the 'Paris of the East', devolved into what it is today.

This info is written in history books, you can look them up yourself.

Of course, I'm nor denying that taking in Palestinians (Jordan has taken in a hell of a lot already) doesn’t come with risks of spillovers of resistance.

Trying to overthrow your monarchy(Jordan), as well as installing a terror regime as the primary governing force(Lebanon), then supporting Iraq's invasion of Kuwait(1st Gulf war) hasn't endeared themselves to neighbouring states.

Those weren't spillovers, those were attempts at a complete regime change of a sovereign nation and in Lebanon's case, it worked.

However, the biggest concern with taking in Palestinians is that within any Arab society, it looks like the leaders are facilitating ethnic cleansing.

I'm sorry but you are kidding yourself if you think Arab leaders think this way. Why else do you think middle eastern refugees almost always flee to Turkey/Europe whenever a conflict arises? They never go to the wealthy Arab nations, because they simply refuse to take them in. The UAE foreign minister explained why during an interview in 2017.

How do you think the fragile règimes would look to the citizens of these countries? Most are teetering on a very delicate tightrope, propped up my America to play nice.

Which fragile regimes are you referring to? Most have the support of the military, so they just crush any dissent that isn't supported from outside backers.

The unfortunate plight of the Palestinian people is to remain a political pawn of Israel, the USA and Arab nations for some time yet. With the world's attention on them however, they could turn the political tide far in their favour if Hamas actually did disarm and the terror groups all disbanded. With even more attention on the area now than in times past, Israel couldn't continue what they're doing to the Palestinian people and their current allies would turn against them pretty quickly, I'd imagine.

Of course, Hamas and affiliates would never do that in a million years and so, the cycle continues.

 

[bzparkes]

Imagine believing this.

Imagine not believing it, when it's been before the UN(useless as they are) and there's been a heap of articles and footage from lesser media publications.

 

[leon123]

Correct. Following the ramblings of some old guy from a long time ago is silly.

 

[bzparkes]

Hamas' creation cooncided with the first intifada in 1987.

yes and they killed off their political competition after seizing power when Israel withdrew from Gaza in '05. Plenty of articles you can read about them assassinating their opposition, if you care to look.

Why do you frame everything as though it's the Palestinians' fault?

I'm not, currently it's Hamas' fault. The current conflict is a direct result of October 7.

Shall we go into the violent Zionist malitias that wreaked havoc on the Arab population leading up to the creation of Israel?

Sure, if you want. We can go back even further to 700AD, if you like?

After the Nakba, what do you really expect would happen. I don't get how you don't see the inevitability of it all?

You mean after the Palestinians dragged neighbouring Arab countries into a war with Israel after the UN declared Israel a state, straight after the end of WW2?

Due you even understand how the Nakba came about to begin with?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Imagine not believing it, when it's been before the UN(useless as they are) and there's been a heap of articles and footage from lesser media publications.

Perhaps Captain Bluey was more worried about mutilation and organ theft, than he was about apartheid and genocide?

Hopefully if someone interviews him, we might get his views on Chyna!

 

[CaptainCarlton2]

Shame on Carlton for funding war criminals. Really shameful. You should call yourselves Maccabi Carlton.

 

[bzparkes]

Perhaps Captain Bluey was more worried about mutilation and organ theft, than he was about apartheid and genocide?

Hopefully if someone interviews him, we might get his views on Chyna!

Yep and they should be held to account for these crimes.

Maybe we should hear from the man himself?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

If anyone knows who it is, contact Joel Jenkins and/or The Shot via Dave Milner

 

[bzparkes]

If anyone knows who it is, contact Joel Jenkins and/or The Shot via Dave Milner

Surely Dan Gorringe knows?

 

[DaicosDisciple35]

No, I don't.

So then donating aid to Gaza is like giving money straight to Hamas terorrists? Hope you never gave a dollar or you’d be arrested for terorrism.

See how dumb that is?