Test The Ashes First Test November 21-25 1300hrs @ Perth Stadium

[Gough]

Good call.

Peter May does the same for me. Average of 47, 13 hundreds from 66 tests so not a wild conversion rate. Yet is ranked 6th all time.

An excellent player. Not really remembered outside of England.

My old man saw him make 200 against Rhodesia and always held him in high regard for that innings.

 

[Pistol Night]

Poster in question is on a streak of about 200. Not sure if serious or trolling. Wnats to leave out Darcy Moore and Cameron whenever there is rain. Will probably call for Head to be rested to make sure he's cherry ripe for Boxing Day.

Our team selection would make for interesting reading if we followed his weekly advice.

 

[BGman]

Boycott would take 67 overs to noodle off a single.

Yeh. Wasnt he nicknamed 'the corpse with pads' or was that Lawry, nevertheless both were painfully slow scorers, so his point for the Stokes tongue lashing was Englands inability to bat time before their self inflicted collapse.
I also recall "firey' being a description for Boycott. Was that because he was the opposite when batting.

 

[PhatBoy]

Yeh. Wasnt he nicknamed 'the corpse with pads' or was that Lawry, nevertheless both were painfully slow scorers, so his point for the Stokes tongue lashing was Englands inability to bat time before their self inflicted collapse.
I also recall "firey' being a description of Boycott. Was that because he was the opposite when batting.

‘I think their [the English press] maaain criticism of him were that he were the most boring batsman that ever pleehed. And I think that was fact.’
‘Oh it was totally f**ked I agree.’
‘It were oon-deniable fact! ‘Specially after that innins at Oval. Him the corpse with pads on, alright.’
‘Yeah yeah you can’t talk. Corpse with Pads On? Ha! That’s the pot calling the kettle black!’
‘No it’s not. It’s me calling you the most boring batsman that ever played.’

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Not in my opinion - Starc is not an All Time Great. In terms of fast bowlers he is not better or equal to Curtly Ambrose, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Malcolm Marshall, Glenn McGrath, Allan Donald, Shaun Pollock.

Throw in Hadlee, Lillee and Cummins too and with the exception of Waqar Younis and Pat Cummims he has a strike rate better than all of them. (equal with Malcolm Marshall)

Ya gotta take 20 to win and he smashes into the top order like no other. He definitely belongs in this company and I'd have him sharing the new ball with any one of them, except for Pollock who doesn't belong in this list.

 

[DangerSloane]

Not really sure how the third post is a bad take.

This was a side absolutely bereft. They had just been to the West Indies, drawn two tests and got absolutely embarrassed in the third.

They had managed two wins in nearly 20 matches playing boring cricket, with two world class bowlers at their disposal, a gun all-rounder and one of the best batsmen of his generation.
With similar or worse resources, NZ had flown past them, for example. With probably similar resources now, maybe less, SA have won a WTC and have a ridiculous record over the past 18 months.
Something had to change.

What they have done isn’t ‘remarkable’ in terms of results because it opens up the possibility of losing tests - badly - and it has happened at times as we saw only a few days ago. It doesn’t leave room for much in between. It hasn’t made them a team with this ridiculous win/loss ratio. Because they don’t draw any matches. It either works and they win, or it backfires and they lose. It doesn’t allow a middle ground.

But it has given them a series win in NZ, and Pakistan, they’re unbeaten at home with series wins over NZ, SA, India (it clinched them a series win in a delayed finale), SL and WI, drawn series against Australia and India, an away draw with NZ that would have been a 2-0 win except they enforced the follow on and lost the match by a run. Again, a symptom of the game plan. They flogged Pakistan in a game where the hosts made 500 batting first, and it resulted in Pakistan openly preparing the next two wickets inside marquees in order to ensure they were ragging from ball one. Predictably England lost the next two tests.

You can’t say ‘this is THE gameplan.’ Unless you’re winning every series you play that’s impossible. But you can absolutely say that it is a gameplan that has changed things around for them and made them a much, much better side.

They've won 5 of their last 10 series, with 4 of those 5 wins coming against Ireland, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka and West Indies.

Only drawn major series in England vs Australia and India.
Lost 4-1 in India.
Lost in Pakistan

I wouldnt say its been vindicated at all.
I suppose they've been competitive in every series, however they do have a young and talented team at the moment. I would argue their batting order is far superior to our current lineup and they're really only performing to par.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

id be pretty stunned if we named Kawaja unless he is 100% good to go.

Seems like a dumb risk to take at this point, when Renshaw is all but good to replace him.

Rest him and give his his farewell at the SCG, once we have the series wrapped up!

 

[DangerSloane]

Not in my opinion - Starc is not an All Time Great. In terms of fast bowlers he is not better or equal to Curtly Ambrose, Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Malcolm Marshall, Glenn McGrath, Allan Donald, Shaun Pollock.

I'd be interested to see his % of top order wickets compared with some of those others named.

He doesnt get to clean up the tail a lot (purely my opinion and I havent looked into the numbers)

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I suppose they've been competitive in every series, however they do have a young and talented team at the moment. I would argue their batting order is far superior to ours at the moment and they're really only performing to par.

Debateable.

Both sides are fairly similar with the bat. Lets just assume Smith and Root cancel each other out. Lab is as good as Stokes on the other side, and Head at least at home is as good as Brook would be away. The keepers are the same type (love both of them).

The rest all have questions on both sides. I we break even with the bat, our bowlers if we have half reasonable luck are just better with a significant advantage if it turns/games go into day 4-5.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

id be pretty stunned if we named Kawaja unless he is 100% good to go.

Seems like a dumb risk to take at this point, when Renshaw is all but good to replace him.

Rest him and give his his farewell at the SCG, once we have the series wrapped up!

Think we name him pending fitness and have a shadow player which will be Renshaw. Whilst I'd just bite the bullet not sure the selectors will.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Think we name him pending fitness and have a shadow player which will be Renshaw. Whilst I'd just bite the bullet not sure the selectors will.

the risk doesnt = the reward for mine.

 

[western royboy]

Yeh. Wasnt he nicknamed 'the corpse with pads' or was that Lawry, nevertheless both were painfully slow scorers, so his point for the Stokes tongue lashing was Englands inability to bat time before their self inflicted collapse.
I also recall "firey' being a description of Boycott. Was that because he was the opposite when batting.

Google Lawry 282 in the District Cricket Final of the late 60’s, plenty can still be learned from it

 

[Scotland]

Root is undoubtedly one of the best of his generation, regardless of whether he cracks a ton here or only averages 38.

He's been phenomenal the last few years. 3 x 1,000+ run years since 2021 and in 15 tests he has played in 2023/25 combined he's already got another 1,300. England play a lot of tests, but maintaining an average of 50, 60, 70 per calendar year playing 15 tests is incredible.

13,500 runs @ 51 is a brilliant record. But... he's into his 4th Ashes tour (one as captain), hasn't made 100 in 29 innings and England haven't won a test in that time. Alastair Cook by comparison scored 5 100s here and was player of the series in the 2010/11 3-1 win. It's not like Root has been an abject failure here, but he hasn't yet had a defining moment or series. The reason his performances are scrutinised is because of his great record. He's #2 all time for runs scored. Even Stokes could average 30 for the series and he will still be remembered for his heroics in 2019 and 2023.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

the risk doesnt = the reward for mine.

I don't disagree BUT I just know what the selectors will do. If they wanted to move on they would have done it prior to Perth.

 

[the_interloper]

Barrington intrigues me. Averaged 58 in Tests, 69 overseas and barely rates a mention anywhere assumedly because he was so dull to watch but that average suggest he must have been a bastard to get out.

I'd heard him described as having a very wide bat but yeah, no one really talks about him

 

[DangerSloane]

Debateable.

Both sides are fairly similar with the bat. Lets just assume Smith and Root cancel each other out. Lab is as good as Stokes on the other side, and Head at least at home is as good as Brook would be away. The keepers are the same type (love both of them).

The rest all have questions on both sides. I we break even with the bat, our bowlers if we have half reasonable luck are just better with a significant advantage if it turns/games go into day 4-5.

I would argue that their openers and number 3 are better players (or in better form) than our options*

*I'm excluding Head from this debate as before this test has hasnt been thought of as an opener.

Taking conditions out of the equation as obviously theyre better in England and we're better in Australia...I would give the nod to each of their top 3 over ours.

Marnus has the ability to be the best of the 6 but hes been wildly out of form until this summer.

 

[sr36]

He's been phenomenal the last few years. 3 x 1,000+ run years since 2021 and in 15 tests he has played in 2023/25 combined he's already got another 1,300. England play a lot of tests, but maintaining an average of 50, 60, 70 per calendar year playing 15 tests is incredible.

13,500 runs @ 51 is a brilliant record. But... he's into his 4th Ashes tour (one as captain), hasn't made 100 in 29 innings and England haven't won a test in that time. Alastair Cook by comparison scored 5 100s here and was player of the series in the 2010/11 3-1 win. It's not like Root has been an abject failure here, but he hasn't yet had a defining moment or series. The reason his performances are scrutinised is because of his great record. He's #2 all time for runs scored. Even Stokes could average 30 for the series and he will still be remembered for his heroics in 2019 and 2023.

Like most greats, he's been a bloody good player for a very long time and had an imperious period of a few years. That imperious period might still include this Ashes tour, but even if it doesn't it includes a heap of different conditions.

 

[western royboy]

I just know what the selectors will do. If they wanted to move on they would have done it prior to Perth.

Let’s see

 

[DangerSloane]

I don't disagree BUT I just know what the selectors will do. If they wanted to move on they would have done it prior to Perth.

I dont think they will either, but ruining himself the day before a test match shows a lack of professionalism. You would excuse it from a young'un but when you're 38 and on the way out anyway it becomes a real problem.

We essentially played this test with 10 players.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I would argue that their openers and number 3 are better players (or in better form) than our options*

*I'm excluding Head from this debate as before this test has hasnt been thought of as an opener.

Crawley isn't the bloke is so bad lol, and Pope is not better than Lab albeit its closer than many think. Duckett is a very good bat, but really it's 3 similar bats on both sides. Our bowlers are significantly better here though and two tests to come where spin plays a role...please play Bashir I need a laugh

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I dont think they will either, but ruining himself the day before a test match shows a lack of professionalism. You would excuse it from a young'un but when you're 38 and on the way out anyway it becomes a real problem.

We essentially played this test with 10 players.

I don't disagree with you, just realisitic this is CA where there is still a boys club and they won the test despite it. Always harder to get out than in

 

[DangerSloane]

Unpopular opinion - Alistair Cook was a better batsman than Joe root is.

Had to face better bowling attacks across his career than are around at the moment.

Made runs everywhere.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Unpopular opinion - Alistair Cook was a better batsman than Joe root is.

Had to face better bowling attacks across his career than are around at the moment.

It's closer than many think but going to say no, Root's best is still fractionally above but it's a lot closer than a lot realise. Think people have to remember how bad Root's England sides have been. Cooks side in 2013 would have beaten a lot of sides that was the best side to tour here for a long time

 

[PhatBoy]

They've won 5 of their last 10 series, with 4 of those 5 wins coming against Ireland, Zimbabwe, Sri Lanka and West Indies.

Only drawn major series in England vs Australia and India.
Lost 4-1 in India.
Lost in Pakistan

I wouldnt say its been vindicated at all.
I suppose they've been competitive in every series, however they do have a young and talented team at the moment. I would argue their batting order is far superior to our current lineup and they're really only performing to par.

Yes so they’ve lost two series, one on openly doctored wickets in Pakistan.

Again, how is this a plan that’s gone ‘badly.’

Do you think Australia would have won their series in Pakistan playing on the two pitches they served up in tests 2/3? I’m guessing you didn’t watch either of those games. The West Indies won a test over there on a pitch prepared exactly the same way after being 7-37 in the first hour. That’s how much of a lottery they were.

Duckett, Root, Pope, even Crawley actually made runs in India. They actually gave themselves a chance in most of the matches there. It was primarily their inability to take wickets that ensured they couldn’t win, not their batting; the second test was determined by Jaiswal’s 200, the rest of the innings scores were virtually identical. They made 320 batting second at Rajkot - unfortunately for them India made 400 twice so the result became a moot point and they folded in the last innings.

They led the first innings by 50 runs in the fourth test, and scored at just 3 an over - 2.5 in the second innings (oh yeah it was Bazball that failed them there ) before losing by 5 wickets.
Again in the final test India piled on 400. Duckett, Pope, Root, Stokes: none of them scored at over 50 strike rate but they simply got out and they trailed by 200 and that’s where the game was lost. Bairstow was the only player guilty of playing in overdrive.

A little deeper analysis than ‘it’s their gameplan that’s costing them’ might help.

 

[PhatBoy]

Unpopular opinion - Alistair Cook was a better batsman than Joe root is.

Had to face better bowling attacks across his career than are around at the moment.

Made runs everywhere.

Well it’s probably unpopular because it’s untrue.

Averaging 29.2 across 30 innings in New Zealand and South Africa isn’t making runs everywhere, is it. Unless those places don’t exist.