Vic The joke that is the Victorian Liberal Party.

[Crankyhawk]

All it will be is a boring estimate that you'll no doubt crack the shits over and then when it runs over budget you'll crack the shits over that.

Labor could have the cure to cancer and you'd find something to complain about.

The reality is you've got blind hatred for labor and it clouds your thinking.


Contractors will know a lot more than you and I. They would have information that's commercial in confidence.

They should be able to detail what has already been spent then, itemised to a degree (frontline labor, management, consultancies, materials, legal fees)

 

[Sinjin Smith]

Depends what they're lying about.

If the LNP tell me that the problem with housing is to increase negative gearing to spur more investment, I'm not going to believe them.

If they tell me they're committed to fixing the problem but offer no solution, I'm not going to believe them that they want to fix it in the first place. (otherwise why wouldn't they propose how to solve it?).

What have the ALP lied about which makes you question their motives?

Jack Sparrow? Along te lines of you can always trust a dishonest man, he'll be dishonest. It's the honest ones you need to look out for, as you'll never know when they'll be dishonest.

 

[Sttew]

They should be able to detail what has already been spent then, itemised to a degree (frontline labor, management, consultancies, materials, legal fees)

Listening to what Jeremi Moule. Secretary for Department of Premier, said today in a Parliamentary hearing, don’t expect anything before the election, that is, NOTHING. He claims the government has not reviewed costs for SRL since 2021 and won’t be any time soon

 

[Saint]

Listening to what Jeremi Moule. Secretary for Department of Premier, said today in a Parliamentary hearing, don’t expect anything before the election, that is, NOTHING. He claims the government has not reviewed costs for SRL since 2021 and won’t be any time soon

Shocking management and transparency for a $50bn project.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Shocking management and transparency for a $50bn project.

No chance it's true either.

 

[Saint]

No chance it's true either.

Well, they don't need to have reviewed costs. They've awarded contracts for set prices for the tunnelling packages, the linewide package and half the stations (maybe all of them by now, haven't checked recently).

So they'll have a much more precise estimate of the costs and not need to "review" it, so it's probably just a language trick.

Early Works $2.4bn
Tunnels South $3.6bn
Tunnels North $1.6bn
Linewide - ~$10bn
Stations TBC - First 3 awarded, the two runners up will now bid for the other 3.

So, excluding variations and owners' costs, land acquisitions, compensation and a bunch of other on-costs, They've awarded $17bn and haven't built the stations yet, probably another couple of billion, to get us to $20bn.

I think Linewide includes Operations and maintenance but I'm not sure for how long.

So the overall cost is probably under $30bn.

 

[Sttew]

Well, they don't need to have reviewed costs. They've awarded contracts for set prices for the tunnelling packages, the linewide package and half the stations (maybe all of them by now, haven't checked recently).

So they'll have a much more precise estimate of the costs and not need to "review" it, so it's probably just a language trick.

Early Works $2.4bn
Tunnels South $3.6bn
Tunnels North $1.6bn
Linewide - ~$10bn
Stations TBC - First 3 awarded, the two runners up will now bid for the other 3.

So, excluding variations and owners' costs, land acquisitions, compensation and a bunch of other on-costs, They've awarded $17bn and haven't built the stations yet, probably another couple of billion, to get us to $20bn.

I think Linewide includes Operations and maintenance but I'm not sure for how long.

So the overall cost is probably under $30bn.

It's not just the cost of construction which I bet will NOT cost "under $30bn".

Victoria’s Parliamentary Budget Office says the SRL East will only return around 50 cents for each dollar spent on it. So, it will be a loss-maker for future generations of taxpayers and a deadweight loss for the national economy in terms of growth and productivity.

Dan Andrews canned the East West Link because the return was just 80 cents for every $1 spent!

Australian taxpayers bailing out Victoria’s Suburban Rail Loop chaos

When the Albanese government is the project’s anchor tenant, it signals that federal Labor will bail out Victoria, no matter how indebted it becomes.

www.afr.com

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

All it will be is a boring estimate that you'll no doubt crack the shits over and then when it runs over budget you'll crack the shits over that.

Labor could have the cure to cancer and you'd find something to complain about.

The reality is you've got blind hatred for labor and it clouds your thinking.


Contractors will know a lot more than you and I. They would have information that's commercial in confidence.

Nah if its Liberal he would make excuses for them. That's generally how it works. Couldn't possibly fathom any Liberal run project being overdue and over budget even though there is a long history state and federal of exactly that. Difference is I don't get up my goat about it because I understand you need these things in place if you want to progress. I would praise a Liberal government for making the courageous decision to do so and not be partisan about it.

 

[Saint]

Nah if its Liberal he would make excuses for them. That's generally how it works. Couldn't possibly fathom any Liberal run project being overdue and over budget even though there is a long history state and federal of exactly that. Difference is I don't get up my goat about it because I understand you need these things in place if you want to progress. I would praise a Liberal government for making the courageous decision to do so and not be partisan about it.

I consider myself partisan against the Libs and I still think the SRL is a bad idea. There are empty fields around Tarneit station waiting for a much cheaper electrification to happen for a route people are already crammed into. There's supposed to be a station at Ravenhall too.

The City Loop Reconfiguration was highlighted in IV's recent Infrastructure strategy. They're all more worth projects than SRL. Even the Melton electrification would be cheaper than SRL which they're "Just getting on with" while they drag their feet in the west (and north).

Those areas in the North and West need those new services more than Box Hill needs a train to Monash.

Metro 2 would have been cheaper than SRL and opened up Fishermens Bend which is far more ripe for development uplift than Box Hill, Monash or Glen Waverley.

 

[The Punter]

I consider myself partisan against the Libs and I still think the SRL is a bad idea. There are empty fields around Tarneit station waiting for a much cheaper electrification to happen for a route people are already crammed into. There's supposed to be a station at Ravenhall too.

The City Loop Reconfiguration was highlighted in IV's recent Infrastructure strategy. They're all more worth projects than SRL. Even the Melton electrification would be cheaper than SRL which they're "Just getting on with" while they drag their feet in the west (and north).

Those areas in the North and West need those new services more than Box Hill needs a train to Monash.

Metro 2 would have been cheaper than SRL and opened up Fishermens Bend which is far more ripe for development uplift than Box Hill, Monash or Glen Waverley.

So why is the SRL getting built before the other projects you have identified?

 

[Saint]

So why is the SRL getting built before the other projects you have identified?

I have absolutely no idea. I guess the only reason the Libs haven't got any traction in criticism of it is because they spent all their powder complaining about Skyrail which everyone actually likes.

I also don't know how, at the last election, they couldn't say "we'll save $20bn by cancelling SRL and just building the Western Rail Plan", instead saying "We'll save on transport and spent it on hospitals and also balance the budget."

 

[The Punter]

I have absolutely no idea. I guess the only reason the Libs haven't got any traction in criticism of it is because they spent all their powder complaining about Skyrail which everyone actually likes.

I also don't know how, at the last election, they couldn't say "we'll save $20bn by cancelling SRL and just building the Western Rail Plan", instead saying "We'll save on transport and spent it on hospitals and also balance the budget."

I wasn't staffing during the 2022 campaign, but when we promised much improved travel times in V/Line services in 2018, no one believed us. There's a lot of brand baggage to overcome and it's impossible to do it from opposition.

What I do know about the location of SRL East is it runs through a number of marginal seats.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

I wasn't staffing during the 2022 campaign, but when we promised much improved travel times in V/Line services in 2018, no one believed us. There's a lot of brand baggage to overcome and it's impossible to do it from opposition.

Quite a bit of that brand baggage when it comes to Public Transport can be traced back to Kennett. How long before that goes away is anyone's guess.

I have absolutely no idea. I guess the only reason the Libs haven't got any traction in criticism of it is because they spent all their powder complaining about Skyrail which everyone actually likes.

I also don't know how, at the last election, they couldn't say "we'll save $20bn by cancelling SRL and just building the Western Rail Plan", instead saying "We'll save on transport and spent it on hospitals and also balance the budget."

SRL has a level of popularity. The newspoll early July had it at 59 percent support.

Victorian polls: Newspoll and RedBridge Group - The Poll Bludger

The first two Victorian state polls since the federal election find Labor back on top, though Newspoll suggests Jacinta Allan remains a liability.

www.pollbludger.net

I suspect the reality is people like seeing shit get built. Where it gets built comes second. Going to say "We are going to cancel a popular project" is just a turnoff for voters.

 

[The Punter]

Quite a bit of that brand baggage when it comes to Public Transport can be traced back to Kennett. How long before that goes away is anyone's guess.

Absolutely it dates back to Kennett, especially outside of Melbourne. The decisions he made wouldn't be made today because political parties of both colours think differently about public transport and cost recovery now. I think it's 50c for daily use of PT in Queensland under an LNP government. SA too under rockstar Malinauskas. We're slowly but surely moving to free PT use.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

I consider myself partisan against the Libs and I still think the SRL is a bad idea. There are empty fields around Tarneit station waiting for a much cheaper electrification to happen for a route people are already crammed into. There's supposed to be a station at Ravenhall too.

The City Loop Reconfiguration was highlighted in IV's recent Infrastructure strategy. They're all more worth projects than SRL. Even the Melton electrification would be cheaper than SRL which they're "Just getting on with" while they drag their feet in the west (and north).

Those areas in the North and West need those new services more than Box Hill needs a train to Monash.

Metro 2 would have been cheaper than SRL and opened up Fishermens Bend which is far more ripe for development uplift than Box Hill, Monash or Glen Waverley.

I'm against SRL as well so I agree hence the reasoning behind my post. I don't see a great need for it specifically not over other projects. Firmly in favour of MRRT, NEL etc.

 

[Pakenhamsaint]

Absolutely it dates back to Kennett, especially outside of Melbourne. The decisions he made wouldn't be made today because political parties of both colours think differently about public transport and cost recovery now. I think it's 50c for daily use of PT in Queensland under an LNP government. SA too under rockstar Malinauskas. We're slowly but surely moving to free PT use.

There still needs to be change from the majors in the public transport space.
Theres still very much a car centric attitude and reactive when it comes to public transport.

SRL is a rather proactive for a change.

Free will only work when frequency is there.
Brisbane is actually giving good data on it.
The frequent stuff has explored in patronage. The not so frequent stuff hasn't as much.
Paying for it will be a different too. Queensland can lean on its mining to pay.

 

[Sttew]

Nah if its Liberal he would make excuses for them. That's generally how it works. Couldn't possibly fathom any Liberal run project being overdue and over budget even though there is a long history state and federal of exactly that. Difference is I don't get up my goat about it because I understand you need these things in place if you want to progress. I would praise a Liberal government for making the courageous decision to do so and not be partisan about it.

I am supportive of Metro Rail, level crossing removals and most Big Build projects, but in case you hadn't noticed I am dead against SRL. Nothing about it stacks up. Maybe if SRL had started in the north or at the Airport it would be easier to be positive, but for whatever reason it didn't.

 

[Saint]

Absolutely it dates back to Kennett, especially outside of Melbourne. The decisions he made wouldn't be made today because political parties of both colours think differently about public transport and cost recovery now. I think it's 50c for daily use of PT in Queensland under an LNP government. SA too under rockstar Malinauskas. We're slowly but surely moving to free PT use.

Baillieu/Napthine also cut down the Regional Rail Link scope to the bare minimum, basically a 10 year horizon for rail projects which are usually 20, minimum. Considering it was only finished 10 years ago, it's already become a constraint on the network including de-scoped overpasses becoming at-grade junctions which were clearly going to struggle. That's on top of next-to-no planning or delivery of anything else.

 

[Demonic Ascent]

It's not just the cost of construction which I bet will NOT cost "under $30bn".

Victoria’s Parliamentary Budget Office says the SRL East will only return around 50 cents for each dollar spent on it. So, it will be a loss-maker for future generations of taxpayers and a deadweight loss for the national economy in terms of growth and productivity.

Dan Andrews canned the East West Link because the return was just 80 cents for every $1 spent!

Australian taxpayers bailing out Victoria’s Suburban Rail Loop chaos

When the Albanese government is the project’s anchor tenant, it signals that federal Labor will bail out Victoria, no matter how indebted it becomes.

www.afr.com

How do they calculate the return? It's public infrastructure, it's not built as a financial investment.

 

[Saint]

How do they calculate the return? It's public infrastructure, it's not built as a financial investment.

It would be the same issue if they compared it to Western Rail Plan or Metro 2, or CLR and those would have 4x the benefits at 1/4 of the cost.

It's prioritisation (as well as conceptual).

Who's to say a tunnel from Monash to Frankston wasn't a better idea than to Southland?

 

[nut]

Tax corporations and tax the resource sector. FMD Norway has 1500kms of tunnels , that’s Melbourne to Sydney and return, 17,000 bridges…

Seriously just build more infrastructure ….

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Tax corporations and tax the resource sector. FMD Norway has 1500kms of tunnels , that’s Melbourne to Sydney and return, 17,000 bridges…

Seriously just build more infrastructure ….

Norway also has enormous wealth from oil and we are 25x larger in area.

 

[nut]

Norway also has enormous wealth from oil and we are 25x larger in area.

We are the second largest exporter of gas…we’ve been exporting iron ore and Coal for decades …. Gold, uranium and have FA to show for it….

25x the area and 95% of it empty…. We have 6x the population and they dwarf our infrastructure spending.

We are getting r*ped by multinationals….

How can anyone argue against that?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

Norway also has enormous wealth from oil

 

[nut]

Norway also has enormous wealth from oil

Because they tax corporations and tax the resource sector.