Tasmania Team entering 2028. VFL team 2026. Gov has votes to pass Upper House. Official vote 4/12. Job almost done lads - congrats!

[Canberra Pear]

I think Tassie Devils are likely to have one of the most parochial support bases in the AFL. Almost certain to be sold out for the majority of matches at a premium. That's great for Tassie and the AFL.

I'm sure they would sell out a bigger stadium for the first few seasons. A smaller stadium ensures they continue to do so.

 

[Jack Mundy]

I'm sure they would sell out a bigger stadium for the first few seasons. A smaller stadium ensures they continue to do so.

Expensive smaller stadium

 

[hampton]

Good luck to Tasmania hope it goes well for them. It’s gotta be the most expensive endeavour to get a professional team in a provincial govt per capita ever though. $1.14b spent on the Macquarie point stadium, York park upgrades, high performance centre, club operating subsidy.

Hobart is equivalent to the size of Bendigo or Cairns. And Townsville, where their new stadium opened 5 years ago seating 25k cost $300m. No roof though and inflation sure.

Great for the devils, though.

 

[The_Wookie]

Good luck to Tasmania hope it goes well for them. It’s gotta be the most expensive endeavour to get a professional team in a provincial govt per capita ever though. $1.14b spent on the Macquarie point stadium, York park upgrades, high performance centre, club operating subsidy.

Hobart is equivalent to the size of Bendigo or Cairns. And Townsville, where their new stadium opened 5 years ago seating 25k cost $300m. No roof though and inflation sure.

Great for the devils, though.

If they do it right, the shot in the arm to Hobarts economy - as happened in Adelaide - simply cannot be underestimated. Let alone the boost to state morale. Has the potential to boost the local hospitality industry immensely.

 

[Financialpanther]

If they do it right, the shot in the arm to Hobarts economy - as happened in Adelaide - simply cannot be underestimated. Let alone the boost to state morale. Has the potential to boost the local hospitality industry immensely.

Have to say, as both a Tasmanian but also financially trained, I feel too much is focussed on dollars and sense and less on the intangibles that this brings the state.

Tasmanian's have historically felt like victims and second class compared with the rest of Australia - a chip on the shoulder because we haven't had something to tie us together like our favourite sport. We follow our Tasmanian players on different teams and yearn for that identity that has eluded us.

We had a taste of a sporting identity in basketball through the old Devils and then that went away. All we had was cricket for the longest time.

Will it lose money - of course it will - will it make the people proud, happy and feel part of the broader Australia and lessen the sting of being isolated - yes.

 

[Professor Knowall]

... Hobart is equivalent to the size of Bendigo or Cairns. And Townsville, where their new stadium opened 5 years ago seating 25k cost $300m. No roof though and inflation sure.

Great for the devils, though.

I assumed you meant to write "... Hobart is equivalent to the size of Bendigo AND Cairns combined". That would be much more accurate. It's also comfortably larger than Townsville, with some 300,000 within commuting distance (certainly by Melbourne or Sydney standards) of central Hobart.

I've been to the Hobart waterfront many times, both for business and pleasure (I've twice taken the car over and driven right around the state and hiked). As I mentioned in the other thread, the waterfront, though it has its charm, is also limited in its scope. This year I found it just a little bit stale and it really needs something substantial to lift it to the next level for tourism, which has dropped off a bit in the last few years - and this indoor stadium will be just perfect.

The location is brilliant for a stadium, it really couldn't e better - even better than Adelaide Oval - and for every AFL game and other major events - and I have no doubt there will be many other major events in what will be Australia's second largest indoor (and largest pure indoor) venue - the whole waterfront and surrounding areas will go right off - in a good way. This will most definitely get me back to Hobart and it wail also do wonders for Hobart's economy. Exactly what is needed.

 

[Walshawk]

Fantastic news. A club with a ready made fan base of passionate fans will be a breath of fresh air after the struggles of GWS and GC. Hopefully they build the stadium as planned with the ability to increase capacity towards 30k.It will be needed once they are playing finals.

 

[The_Wookie]

Have to say, as both a Tasmanian but also financially trained, I feel too much is focussed on dollars and sense and less on the intangibles that this brings the state.

Its those intangibles that are never understood by the greens and the cultural/intellectual elite - and Tasmania is full of these people

 

[bigleague]

Have to say, as both a Tasmanian but also financially trained, I feel too much is focussed on dollars and sense and less on the intangibles that this brings the state.

Tasmanian's have historically felt like victims and second class compared with the rest of Australia - a chip on the shoulder because we haven't had something to tie us together like our favourite sport. We follow our Tasmanian players on different teams and yearn for that identity that has eluded us.

We had a taste of a sporting identity in basketball through the old Devils and then that went away. All we had was cricket for the longest time.

Will it lose money - of course it will - will it make the people proud, happy and feel part of the broader Australia and lessen the sting of being isolated - yes.

Exactly. As usual with these things, once it’s built no one will care how much it cost.

 

[bigleague]

Its those intangibles that are never understood by the greens and the cultural/intellectual elite - and Tasmania is full of these people

The naysayers just move on to the next thing to whinge about.

 

[bigleague]

I do think it’s ridiculous that they won’t be playing all their games at the new stadium, particularly given the arguments around needing a roof.

 

[Jack Mundy]

If they do it right, the shot in the arm to Hobarts economy - as happened in Adelaide - simply cannot be underestimated. Let alone the boost to state morale. Has the potential to boost the local hospitality industry immensely.

No. The studies show Tassie will get back about half of every dollar spent. This is all about getting an AFL team and spending whatever it takes.

 

[Jack Mundy]

Its those intangibles that are never understood by the greens and the cultural/intellectual elite - and Tasmania is full of these people

Yeah, they generally speak out against the top end screwing the public.

 

[The_Wookie]

No. The studies show Tassie will get back about half of every dollar spent. This is all about getting an AFL team and spending whatever it takes.

the "studies" underestime the indirect benefits and overstate the indirect negatives. They loaded up the stadium costings with a tonne of non stadium crap, and then pronounced it unaffordable. This was particularly true of Gruen, and the TPC - which may as well have just sent a photostat of gruen out.

And for all that - "about half" - isnt that far off most returns.

 

[The_Wookie]

Yeah, they generally speak out against the top end screwing the public.

They like screwing the public when its their pet projects, make no mistake. they generally hate most developments unless its inline with their personal philosophies, and almost universally hate anything to do with sport.

 

[Financialpanther]

They like screwing the public when its their pet projects, make no mistake. they generally hate most developments unless its inline with their personal philosophies, and almost universally hate anything to do with sport.

So....cable car?

 

[The_Wookie]

 

[The_Wookie]

So....cable car?

dont get me wrong, Tassie is ridiculous place at times. See the new Spirits and their docks or the stupidity that was Gunns

 

[Financialpanther]

dont get me wrong, Tassie is ridiculous place at times. See the new Spirits and their docks or the stupidity that was Gunns

Oh they are their own worst enemy - my comment was tongue in cheek.

The Spirits was the biggest embarrassment to Tasmania in some time.

 

[hampton]

Have to say, as both a Tasmanian but also financially trained, I feel too much is focussed on dollars and sense and less on the intangibles that this brings the state.

Tasmanian's have historically felt like victims and second class compared with the rest of Australia - a chip on the shoulder because we haven't had something to tie us together like our favourite sport. We follow our Tasmanian players on different teams and yearn for that identity that has eluded us.

We had a taste of a sporting identity in basketball through the old Devils and then that went away. All we had was cricket for the longest time.

Will it lose money - of course it will - will it make the people proud, happy and feel part of the broader Australia and lessen the sting of being isolated - yes.

Hopefully you and your loved ones haven't had to or never have to deal with a lack of hospital beds, because that tangible will quickly overtake those intangibles you're talking about as a priority.

Sometimes I do think it's the younger people that have never had a worry such as that in life to deal with that things like spending flagrantly on expensive stadiums which is a nice to have over life-saving things such as hospitals - who cares about hospitals if you've never had an emergency or disease to deal with. If your biggest worry in life is your sport team playing out of a 'less than ideal' stadium, and you go out to protest for a better one, you probably haven't got too much to worry about in life.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

the "studies" underestime the indirect benefits and overstate the indirect negatives. They loaded up the stadium costings with a tonne of non stadium crap, and then pronounced it unaffordable. This was particularly true of Gruen, and the TPC - which may as well have just sent a photostat of gruen out.

And for all that - "about half" - isnt that far off most returns.

And in any case, the logic behind "economic modelling" merely reflects that Tasmania has a poor economy - that itself is not a revelation

Essentially, the economic modelling for how Tasmanians will interact with any infrastructure spend will return a less than 1:1 ratio, because the cost inputs for construction reflects a mainland economy (materials, wages, technical expertise), but the interaction with the piece of infrastructure will always be lower (Tasmanians have less money to spend generally).

Even if we accept the 0.53 - which as you say we shouldn't, they add costs that they shouldn't - that doesn't make it a bad project, because the answer isn't to compare an infrastructure build to a non-infrastructure build (otherwise you wouldn't build any infrastructure whatsoever in the state ever because it would all have a below 1:1, which obviously makes no sense), the answer is to compare it to alternate ways in which you could spend hundreds of millions of dollars on infrastructure that might be better for the state - though nobody has come up with one.

Perhaps the best argument is that in the very short term money is better spent on schools, hospitals, but as people rightfully point out, building the stadium is not going to be any cheaper in the future.

 

[Financialpanther]

Hopefully you and your loved ones haven't had to or never have to deal with a lack of hospital beds, because that tangible will quickly overtake those intangibles you're talking about as a priority.

Sometimes I do think it's the younger people that have never had a worry such as that in life to deal with that things like spending flagrantly on expensive stadiums which is a nice to have over life-saving things such as hospitals. If your biggest worry in life is your sport team playing out of a 'less than ideal' stadium, and you go out to protest for a better one, you probably haven't got too much to worry about in life.

Lived here all my life and have dealt with it over the last 20 years. Do you think not doing the stadium will improve it, absolutely not.

Health is not about the volume of the spend, it is how the spend is used which I have issue with. Tasmania has a bloated administrative process with gobsmacking levels of inefficiency, duplication and silos. Not doing the stadium does not fix that - you don't solve these issues by throwing more money at it.

Spare me this indignation that this one funding event means my family will continue to suffer through poor health care.

 

[hampton]

Lived here all my life and have dealt with it over the last 20 years. Do you think not doing the stadium will improve it, absolutely not.

Health is not about the volume of the spend, it is how the spend is used which I have issue with. Tasmania has a bloated administrative process with gobsmacking levels of inefficiency, duplication and silos. Not doing the stadium does not fix that - you don't solve these issues by throwing more money at it.

Spare me this indignation that this one funding event means my family will continue to suffer through poor health care.

This kinda is the point, maybe there should be more attention, protests, money etc spent on healthcare in tasmania over stadiums. How much attention has this bloody stadium had over the past years.

 

[Financialpanther]

This kinda is the point, maybe there should be more attention, protests, money etc spent on healthcare in tasmania over stadiums. How much attention has this bloody stadium had over the past years.

Don't disagree that fundamentally, the public service needs to break to be built better, same can be said of merging the 26 councils, the fact that 50% of kids coming out of school can't read or write, etc.

The amount of attention to the stadium is overblown, but so is the bad actors and strategically framed conversations to those that oppose it (not saying there aren't bad actors on the yes side, which there are - hospitality, I am looking at you).

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Hopefully you and your loved ones haven't had to or never have to deal with a lack of hospital beds, because that tangible will quickly overtake those intangibles you're talking about as a priority.

The issue with this line of thinking is that it will take an endless well of money to fix the "perceived" tangible element of healthcare, because unless you throw an unrealistic, undemocratic amount of money that the mainland would never pay, Tasmania's health outcomes will never be on level pegging with the mainland.

So you build a few more hospitals that fixes up the fact that people might get a bit better care in the short-term. But then as Tasmania ages faster than the mainland and young people that could have been the ones to be a tax and caring base for the elderly move to the mainland - then what? You still have the need for ever more hospital beds and and a structure of the economy that can't support it other than an ever increasing unsustainable amount of money being thrown at the problem.

In order to "fix" the health crisis the only solution people would have, is to what, spend tens of thousands of dollars convincing mainland nurses to relocate to (or not move away from) to Tasmania, and once you're doing that, you may as well achieve that indirectly by spending the money on the team and stadium which will convince people to move/stay to Tasmania because they like the fact they have a football team to support and concerts to go to.

The Tasmanian expat community is a lot bigger in Melbourne than the rest of the country (for obvious reasons) both me and my friends/family know a lot of Tasmanians who have had to leave the mainland.

Over 5,000 20-34 year olds leave Tasmania every year, of the 15,000 that do leave, and while similar numbers to return to the state, it's much older, such as returning older Tasmanians and retirees who are much more likely to interact with their health system - but you don't have the university-educated 20-34 year old workforce individuals that are the ones that bear the brunt of driving our economy forward so we do have a healthcare and pension system for older people, who are found in Tasmania.

I think the cultural benefits of having a football team in Tasmania - keeping in mind that as many as 4% of the country has purchased an AFL membership and a majority of Tasmanians watch some AFL on TV every year - cannot be overstated as an influence in changing the structure of society and economy in Tasmania. This is especially so as Tasmania is still very much an Anglo-Celtic society, as the mainland's demographics changes and the AFL understands that it needs to break into these communities that have no generational association with the game, this is not the case with Tasmania, the team will activate a lot of latent AFL support among non-immigrant communities that are generationally tied to the sport in the opposite way that e.g. the Dogs have struggled with with the Vietnamese community in Footscray.