Test The Ashes Second Test December 4-8 1430hrs @ The Gabba

[GreekLunatic]

next test cummins replaces doggett and lyon nesser

 

[jb04]

I'm choosing optimism today, I think this 10th wicket partnership will still be handy but end soon, and there's an even chance that Trav's innings in Perth wasn't a flash in the pan and he can help settle Jake and Lab into their innings later today.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

next test cummins replaces doggett and lyon nesser

Both cummins and Hazelwood will play in Adelaide.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Im a mad Australian fan.

But we are cooked.

Outside of Starc, none of our bowling attacked looked threatening at all. I can't see how we take 20 wickets for a reasonable score to be honest - barring England throwing away their wickets.

If England had batted with a iota of common sense since the Ashes started, they would be short odds to be a few days from going 2-0 up. If Neser and Doggett are our next best bowlers then we are in for some hard times in the years ahead.

I have loaded up on England to win the Ashes @ $3.00 before the series; and again @ $6 after the first test.

I'm very confident on this bet, have pretty much decided what I will do with my winnings.

I would like an analysis post series on this from you, with plenty of detail.

 

[HoldMyBeer]

Good on Root for getting his ton.

I love my sport, I'm not a cricket tragic but if anyone can show me a better sporting contest than the Ashes then I'm all ears! It's got everything, and unfortunately our early settlers were pommies

I've been to Bay 13 many times and not even a Grand Final comes close to the atmosphere there.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

If Neser and Doggett are our next best bowlers then we are in for some hard times in the years ahead.

The problem is losing Cummins AND Hazlewood at the same time. Had we only needed to replace one of these bowlers, the attack would have been more settled. The Neser selection came about because of the Brisbane scenario, and everyone getting excited about the pink ball.

I've been intrigued this season with the use of fast bowlers in Sheffield Shield. Rarely do you see any of them playing match after match. They seem to come in for a couple, then out. I don't know the reason for this, are they getting injured? If so, aren't we supposed to be advanced in managing these things these days?

 

[Scott Tracy]

next test cummins replaces doggett and lyon nesser

I'd give Boland a rest, considering we will need him in Melbourne. Hopefully, Hazlewood can come in; if not, maybe give Neser one more run, or do a wildcard and try out J Richardson if he is fit. Lyon and Cummins are straight walk-ins for Adelaide.

 

[RookiePick]

I just don't trust out top order at all unfortunately.

I suspect England's pace battery will look a bit more formidable and extract a bit more from the surface.

No Lyon, Head reprising the openers role and England carrying the momentum from a Root ton and an outstanding 10th wicket partnership. All the pressure back on Australia IMO. If Head falls cheaply, look out!

Aussies will want to have a much better day today or we will be staring at 1-1 heading to Adelaide!

 

[Westy2487]

**** him. And the Poms

Classy

 

[dumb]

you don't have to just gift them runs to avoid batting again if you're pooping your daks at the thought of batting under lights.

i have chappelli (or could have been richie benaud) in my ears relating that story about bradman complimenting them as captain at the time for attacking play and playing for a win. i think of steve waugh though, he wouldn't have had any shame avoiding batting (world cup go slow batting tactics come to mind).
we're generally not used to our captains being pathetic cowards or handing the opposition runs.

on the bright side, assuming we last long enough we'll be batting with a soft ball under lights today too, at least until they start leaning on the umpires to check it. and they will.

boland probably the bigger disappointment of the bowlers. today didn't have to deal with the out-and-out attack like his last ashes in england but still ineffective. so far. doggett and neser are the ring-ins, and doggett has gone about as well as i expected this test. neser... expected more but he has another string to his bow.
most of the others on the fringes who have had good shield figures for a couple of years already probably wouldn't have gone any better. abbott, mcandrew, o'neill et al, though they would have strengthened the batting more than doggett if that was a concern.

was already skeptical of doggett's spot, captain hindsight here but if we absolutely had to bring in neser it should have been for him. would i have picked lyon? we've placed a lot of trust in starc, a bit more impotent lately boland, and two fringe guys. lyon can take wickets in all conditions.

 

[Westy2487]

I just don't trust out top order at all unfortunately.

I suspect England's pace battery will look a bit more formidable and extract a bit more from the surface.

No Lyon, Head reprising the openers role and England carrying the momentum from a Root ton and an outstanding 10th wicket partnership. All the pressure back on Australia IMO. If Head falls cheaply, look out!

Aussies will want to have a much better day today or we will be staring at 1-1 heading to Adelaide!

Straight from the commentators playbook. Looking to get a start.

 

[74561347]

The icc need to grow a pair and start banning players for not bowling their required overs. No fines, not docking points, just straight bans.

74 overs in a day is absolutely deplorable.

 

[Cam Payne]

That pitch is a piece of piss to bat on and Australia will be 200 in front on day three. You people are a bunch of wee wee's.

 

[Nelso]

Good on Root for getting his ton.

I love my sport, I'm not a cricket tragic but if anyone can show me a better sporting contest than the Ashes then I'm all ears! It's got everything, and unfortunately our early settlers were pommies

I've been to Bay 13 many times and not even a Grand Final comes close to the atmosphere there.

Ryder Cup is the best sporting event.

 

[crows dude]

The problem is losing Cummins AND Hazlewood at the same time. Had we only needed to replace one of these bowlers, the attack would have been more settled. The Neser selection came about because of the Brisbane scenario, and everyone getting excited about the pink ball.

I've been intrigued this season with the use of fast bowlers in Sheffield Shield. Rarely do you see any of them playing match after match. They seem to come in for a couple, then out. I don't know the reason for this, are they getting injured? If so, aren't we supposed to be advanced in managing these things these days?

Problem is Neser is 35 years old. He unfortunately couldnt get a decent crack at it during his prime. Same with Boland. Where are the young guys

Mitch Perry (25 Years Old) is the only young fast bowler taking wickets

 

[Cam Payne]

The icc need to grow a pair and start banning players for not bowling their required overs. No fines, not docking points, just straight bans.

74 overs in a day is absolutely deplorable.

Agreed. Steve Smith should be banned for the next match.

 

[Tugga27]

Not convinced Smith is a great captain

I don't anyone has said he is.

 

[RookiePick]

Problem is Neser is 35 years old. He unfortunately couldnt get a decent crack at it during his prime. Same with Boland. Where are the young guys

Mitch Perry (25 Years Old) is the only young fast bowler taking wickets

Something a bit off with our development set-ups.

Our young bowlers are barely allowed to roll the arm over and they still break down regularly. I'm not sure a production line of early to mid-30's bowlers that are at best lasting for a couple of seasons should be the goal.

Admittedly we have had a bit of a golden era with Starc/Haze/Cummins who have kept the competition at bay. It will be interesting to see if CA get more ambitious, as the big 3 start to hang them up and we get a chance to try and hit some generational talents that can produce 80-100 tests.

 

[Trojan90]

I don’t think there’s a sound argument you can make for Williamson with so many holes in his record and who’s away record in general, already inferior to Joe Root’s, is boosted by his record against the weaker countries.

I think he is a beautiful player and watching him on some day one NZ pitches play the ball under his eyes when everyone else is pushing at it and nicking off with hard hands is a borderline privilege as a cricket lover, but he just has not done it nearly enough in other tough conditions to earn that sort of praise. Root had one ‘hole’ in his record and it wasn’t because he had never been able to make runs here it was because he had never been able to convert them into a big score/s.

Well Williamson HAS made a hundred in England but he passes 50 once every 5 innings there - compare that to Root who does it once every 3 innings here.
Williamson averages 30 in England. Root averages almost 40 in Australia - and that’s the ‘hole’ in his record.
Williamson averages 33 in India. Root averages 45 there.
Williamson averages 21 in SA. Root averages 50 there.
Williamson averages 29 in SL. Root averages 60 there.

Williamson has 3 test hundreds and 780 runs in total at 70 in Bangladesh/Zimbabwe. Root has no hundreds in either - he’s never played in Zimbabwe, and averaged 20 in his only series in Bangladesh. Remove those figures from Williamson’s away record and he averages 39.4 outside NZ and 65 in NZ.
Remove Root’s tour of Bangladesh and he jumps to 48 - that’s before considering whereabouts away from home (India, SA, Australia etc) they have made their runs. The only place Williamson ‘gets’ him of any real note is Australia itself and that could change within 3 games.

As much as i like Williamson, these holes take him out of the argument.

Kohli and Smiths careers are pretty similar, trend wise. Smith's absolute peak averaging 77 across 46 tests (vs Kohli 66 across 43 tests) puts him well ahead of Kohli, along with a slump nowhere near as bad as Kohli's who averaged 31 in his last 39 tests (Smith 44 across a similar slump).

Root is different. A lot more steady across his career. A slump across 37 tests where he averaged 41, no real peak like the other 2 (Bazball Era Ave: 57.5). I'd say his consistency to this day puts him in clear 2nd over Kohli. His average has always hovered either side of 50.

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

Problem is Neser is 35 years old. He unfortunately couldnt get a decent crack at it during his prime. Same with Boland. Where are the young guys

Mitch Perry (25 Years Old) is the only young fast bowler taking wickets

Fergus O'Neill is probably the best bowler in Shield cricket but will never get a look in because of his speed

 

[cats_09]

Problem is Neser is 35 years old. He unfortunately couldnt get a decent crack at it during his prime. Same with Boland. Where are the young guys

Mitch Perry (25 Years Old) is the only young fast bowler taking wickets

O'Neill has been regularly taking wickets

 

[PhatBoy]

As much as i like Williamson, these holes take him out of the argument.

Kohli and Smiths careers are pretty similar, trend wise. Smith's absolute peak averaging 77 across 46 tests (vs Kohli 66 across 43 tests) puts him well ahead of Kohli, along with a slump nowhere near as bad as Kohli's who averaged 31 in his last 39 tests (Smith 44 across a similar slump).

Root is different. A lot more steady across his career. A slump across 37 tests where he averaged 41, no real peak like the other 2 (Bazball Era Ave: 57.5). I'd say his consistency to this day puts him in clear 2nd over Kohli. His average has always hovered either side of 50.

Very fair. Not having a ‘gift’ like Kohli and Smith probably meant he was never going to be able to cash in during his peak years like they could. I don’t think even players like Gayle and Sehwag had an eye to rival Smith. MAYBE ABDV is the one you could say MIGHT be in the same ballbark?? But smith’s eye is probably the best I’ve ever seen, maybe in history. Viv might be close. Kohli too had wonderful hand-eye at his peak and had an ability to pick up length and drive almost anything that was below thigh height, and he could pull and cut better than most Asian players. Root doesn’t have as many natural gifts as the other two but he’s compact and doesn’t have as many things that can ‘go wrong’ so it probably stands to reason that he hasn’t had a dip

 

[eddiesmith]

Time to make history then. I looked at the scorecard from the D/N shield match at the Gabba a week or two ago. Victoria posted 318/9 dec, but Queensland followed up with 430. They then skittled Victoria for 143 and won inside three days. That's the precedent I'm clinging to right now. Can't deny I'm worried though.

Victoria also did what everyone thinks England should have done, declared to have a crack under lights and didn’t get a wicket, waste of opportunity.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Our "tactics" in the final hour was deplorable, cowardly and shameful. Archer showed a bigger backbone than Head, Weatherald, Labs and Smith combined. Cricket has a funny way of biting you and it bit us hard.

 

[Donuts_]

The Australian press have enjoyed dining out on England's perceived arrogance.

But, regardless of ths match's result, I would consider the decision to drop Lyon to come from a similar vein of unwarranted arrogance and should be called out as such.