Test The Ashes Second Test December 4-8 1430hrs @ The Gabba

[cats_09]

Love these guys

 

[satty]

Am I crazy, or is this English side just shit? I don't care how many soft runs Crawley and Duckett get in England - they're both shit. Ollie Pope may be the worst number 3 i've ever seen. Jamie Smith cannot catch. Atkinson, Carse and Jacks would be lucky to get a game at Shield level in Australia, let alone tests. The fact that this is allegedly the best English side they've sent in decades is astonishing...

They seem to be a side that that is stuck between two philosophies.

It feels like they have shackled a megatonne ankle weight to themselves in the form of bazzball and decided to jump into the ocean with it.

 

[sherb]

Love these guys

Iceland, the greatest trollers in world cricket.

 

[satty]

Sobers comes more than close, his only disadvantage compared to Kallis is that he playing considerably less Test cricket.

Hence why I was careful with my wording , as I said kallis was "statistically " the greatest all rounder of all time.

As far as eye test is concerned, I have not watched enough of sobers but have had older people tell me that his impact as an all rounder was equal to or greater than that of kallis's.

 

[RightWingRoo]

That'd be normal service resuming though. Only twice this century have the Ashes been alive heading to Melbourne.

And one of those instances is because it was the 3rd test of the series.

 

[sr36]

Where to from here for England batting? They've at least got more hope than the bowling I think.

For all the grit and determination from Stokes and Jacks and the praise for the defensive approach, they did only score 50 and 30 on a flat deck, when their only chance of victory was scoring quickly, posting a remotely competitive score and skittling some in the evening session.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Mark Butcher (yes one of the has beens the England camp won't listen to) on Wisden Cricket after the game nailed it.
England have played a side with a stand in captain, stand in bowling attack, stand in openers and been beaten twice by old school test cricket discipline.

Holding a line and length while bowling, building pressure.
Displaying better technique and a dedication to hard work.
Batsmen playing for the stumps, protecting their wicket with a high price.
Holding their catches.

While their style on vibes, attacking cricket, showing flair and expressing yourself just reeks of trying to re-invent the test cricket wheel, and is failing dismally.

He's bang on. Just focus on doing the basics.

 

[AJ_2000]

I don't think he's a tactician, but I do think he's good motivator and I think that's what he was doing there. Trying to get Archer to activate the fire in his belly. He'll want it to carry through.

I reckon he's more likely roused the 2nd coming of Bradman that had been dormant in Smith the past few years. Get the feeling he's more likely carry that to Adelaide then the guy brining his pillow to the ground

 

[010203]

The Aussie top 7 won't change heading to Adelaide although it'd be nice if Cam Green didn't get playing such an irresponsible shot again. I'd expect 3 of the fab 4 bowlers will play which means Neser or Doggett miss out. I'd stick with Neser.

 

[sherb]

Hence why I was careful with my wording , as I said kallis was "statistically " the greatest all rounder of all time.

As far as eye test is concerned, I have not watched enough of sobers but have had older people tell me that his impact as an all rounder was equal to or greater than that of kallis's.

Depends which statistical criteria you apply though.

Certainly Kallis outdoes Sobers in totals (runs/wickets/catches), simply by virtue of playing 73 more Tests.

Averages are more interesting when comparing Kallis & Sobers:
Batting: Sobers 57.78, Kallis 55.37
Bowling: Sobers 34.03, Kallis 32.65
Catches (per Test): Sobers 1.17 (Total 109), Kallis 1.20 (Total 200)

One area which Sobers is in front of Kallis is that he bowled fast medium, left arm orthodox and left arm wrist spin. He really was the complete cricketer.

I know these types of comparisons can go on for ages, but I'd personally have Sobers in front of Kallis. I didn't see much of him, but the 254 he scored in Melbourne in 71-72 really showed his ability to take a match by the scruff of the neck and turn it around. I'm sure Bradman said it was the best innings he had seen played in Australia. And Sobers was 35 at the time.

Sobers had that "x" factor in his game which I don't think Kallis had to the same extent.

 

[brutus76]

They'll blame the Kiwi coach but not their Kiwi captain whose strategy and tactics have been non existent

 

[Snarls Barkley]

Biggest thing with these pink Tests in Australia is that it’s a massive advantage to win the toss and get to bat first. Generally it hasn’t done too much during the day but you get the new ball at night and you can make a fair dint in your opponent

So really if you bat 100+ overs you will generally win the game. England were on track at one stage. Brook plays a really stupid shot to throw away his wicket, Stokes looked good until a mishap and a brilliant piece of fielding, Smith gone early, then Jacks, Atkinson and Carse threw it away with dumb shots. If someone hung around with Root they could have followed the blueprint

When we batted it’s exactly what we managed to do. Kept all our wickets until late in the second session and then were able to take 6 wickets in the last session even with England seeming to attempt normal cricket (bar Crawley and Pope who will never learn from mistakes). Bear in mind if they had taken some pretty regulation catches from some reckless cricket in the last session of day 2 we probably would have been all out on day 2 and the story could have been different, but just brilliant batting from our lower order on day 3 to dig in and make them toil so we could have the new, hard ball during the night session when we could really take control of the contest. Would have been so easy for them to start swinging the willow once Carey was out and there was no recognised bats in, you know that’s exactly how England would have played it

 

[sr36]

The Aussie top 7 won't change heading to Adelaide although it'd be nice if Cam Green didn't get playing such an irresponsible shot again. I'd expect 3 of the fab 4 bowlers will play which means Neser or Doggett miss out. I'd stick with Neser.

Cummins and Lyon will be back. Both Neser and Dogett will miss out.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

They seem to be a side that that is stuck between two philosophies.

It feels like they have shackled a megatonne ankle weight to themselves in the form of bazzball and decided to jump into the ocean with it.

I just dont buy that this is purely a mindset issue. I think theyre just shit cricketers (when compared to Australia) if anything the whole Bazball thing likely makes them perform better than they actually are.

 

[Black Diamond]

Taking a look back at the 06-7 Ashes which we won 5-0, the first three tests went into the fifth day. The 4th (Boxing Day) only made it to day three, and the SCG test made it to the fourth.

This is shaping as a shocker of a series for England, and I am here for it.

 

[RightWingRoo]

Say what you want about Broad, and we all hated the smarmy upper class git, but he was an absolute campaigner and gave it the kitchen sink. Very proud cricketer. Tough operator. Archer not fit to pour him a cordial.

Always feared him far more than any other Pommy bowler. He could win a game in a 5 over spell at home and always fought hard (often as a lone hand) against the grain over here.
Their bowling attack became a lot weaker once he retired.

 

[010203]

Cummins and Lyon will be back. Both Neser and Dogett will miss out.

I was about to select a team without Boland. Oops. The 8-11 will be Starc, Cummins, Lyon and Boland with Neser and Doggett making way.

 

[AJ_2000]

View attachment 2492609

It was the first posts here saying "it looks like they've over prepared" when everything started going wrong during the night session on day one...

Even more so on night 2 when they shelled all the catches "they've over prepared with catching under lights...."

 

[240volt]

The Aussie top 7 won't change heading to Adelaide although it'd be nice if Cam Green didn't get playing such an irresponsible shot again. I'd expect 3 of the fab 4 bowlers will play which means Neser or Doggett miss out. I'd stick with Neser.

Can’t drop Ness after taking 5 wickets, has to be Doggett for Captain Pat and I’d say Lyon would come in maybe for Inglis?

 

[Westend]

I was about to select a team without Boland. Oops. The 8-11 will be Starc, Cummins, Lyon and Boland with Neser and Doggett making way.

they better not bring in ussie if he is declared fit

 

[010203]

they better not bring in ussie if he is declared fit

I think his career as a Test player is done. It's time to move forward and on from him, especially as he was likely to retire at the end of the series anyway.

 

[240volt]

Cummins and Lyon will be back. Both Neser and Dogett will miss out.

I reckon Ness stays after his five wickets and Inglis and Doggett go out

 

[Westend]

Can’t drop Ness after taking 5 wickets, has to be Doggett for Captain Pat and I’d say Lyon would come in maybe for Inglis?

cummins for Doggett and lyon in and its between Neser and/boland who stays


Neser
Starc
Cummins
Lyon

or

Starc
Cummins
Lyon
Boland

 

[Visions]

Winning a series of course is the ultimate aim. As trophy holders (no...not literally), retaining comes first and does mean something to the people playing. Your refusal to accept it has zero consequence on reality.

Agree. That last day at Old Trafford in 23 when it was rained out meaning Australia retained the Ashes was a brilliant night, especially on here where it was very entertaining.

People became expert meteorologists, it was almost as intriguing watching the UK rain radar as it was the test.

 

[Snarls Barkley]

they better not bring in ussie if he is declared fit

Even if Head somehow decides between now and next week that he doesn’t want to open anymore, I’m not convinced Ussie is the best option to come in

Head seems completely up for the challenge of opening and I can’t see it changing this series