Europe Backdrop to the war in Ukraine

[Gethelred]

This is the thread for the geopolitics, history and framework around the Russia-Ukraine conflict. If you want to discuss the events of the war, head over to this thread:

Europe - War in Ukraine - Thread 4 - thread rules updated

This is the thread for discussing the War in Ukraine. Should you want to discuss the geopolitics, the history, or an interesting tangent, head over here: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/backdrop-to-the-war-in-ukraine.1302028/ If a post isn't directly concerning the events of the war or...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[JackOutback]

He's a NATO proxy who is throwing Ukrainian men into a slaugther house for the profits of NATO and sections of the Ukrainian oligarchy.

You are a person who really has neither any concept of reality nor any genuine willingness to critique reality. You are simply a mouthpiece of US/NATO/Albanese propaganda.

You are also a poster who on several occasions in my memory has openly displayed their anti-Russian xenophobia.

Whereas you craft your own reality, separate from the rest of us.

 

[barreness]

In Putin's Russia, even Russian children want to leave Russia.

Maybe they can go and live in Ukraine, find themselves some new parents, change their names and speak Ukrainian and be allowed to play Roblox? There are plenty of Ukrainian parents missing their kidnapped children.

Mizulina claims she has received "tens of thousands" of messages from parents and children following Roskomnadzor's decision.​

​

“I think the game was blocked just to block something, out of hatred for common people. As part of the "sovereign internet” program. They have no idea what's really going on the platform, or how the internet works in general.”​

​

Anastasya​

​

“A 9 year old student in my class said, "What's going on with Russia? Where is she headed?" Another student said, "I installed a bypass anyway, and I'm already playing and creating." My little sister said, "Syoma installed a VPN for me, so I'm still playing."​

​

Simon, teacher​

"My son understood everything right away. He's young, but he doesn't wear rose-colored glasses and understands perfectly well that we live under a fascist regime. And under a fascist regime, something crazy happens every day."​

​

Konstantin​

What do Russians today think of the world, of Russia, and of history? by Misha Firer
https://www.quora.com/What-do-Russi...share=bac0ccc0&srid=hC1yqd&target_type=answer

Quoting quora lol, I'll put that aside though

But yeh Roblox is pretty widely known as a child grooming platform

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...children-roblox-deeply-disturbing-researchers
The report found that children as young as five were able to communicate with adults while playing games on the platform, and found examples of adults and children interacting with no effective age verification.

The report also found the avatar belonging to the 10-year-old’s account could access “highly suggestive environments”. These included a hotel space where they could view a female avatar wearing fishnet stockings gyrating on a bed and other avatars lying on top of each other in sexually suggestive poses, and a public bathroom space where characters were urinating and avatars could choose fetish accessories to dress up in.

 

[barreness]

He's a NATO proxy who is throwing Ukrainian men into a slaugther house for the profits of NATO and sections of the Ukrainian oligarchy.

You are a person who really has neither any concept of reality nor any genuine willingness to critique reality. You are simply a mouthpiece of US/NATO/Albanese propaganda.

You are also a poster who on several occasions in my memory has openly displayed their anti-Russian xenophobia.

He owns the site comrade, you gotta be more chill

 

[barreness]

Zelensky is fighting for the survival of Ukrainians and Ukraine. You talk about the genocide in Gaza but don’t mention Putin’s genocide in Ukraine.
You say that “NATO governments are complicit in the Gaza genocide”. This does not mean Ukraine is also complicit.
Ukraine seek the help of NATO because there is no one else.

Ukraine was complicit in the ('illegal' etc)Iraq War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_involvement_in_the_Iraq_War

This killed......well debatable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
Population-based studies produce estimates of the number of Iraq War casualties ranging from 151,000 violent deaths as of June 2006 (per the Iraq Family Health Survey) to 1,033,000 excess deaths
https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/11/1166343
In total there have been 53,006 civilian casualties, including 14,534 deaths, since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia in 2022.

Most likely an undercount but genocide this is not

 

[Chief]

Most likely an undercount but genocide this is not

Look at the actual definition of genocide that everyone else is using.

You don't have to kill every resident of a country or every speaker of a language.

You're playing the game of the IDF supporters.

This isn't the Israel genocide thread, but I will say that it blows my mind that people can be denying one genocide while speaking out against another. Absolutely incredible.

 

[barreness]

Look at the actual definition of genocide that everyone else is using.

You don't have to kill every resident of a country or every speaker of a language.

I'm fully aware of that. I don't reckon we start using the word genocide lightly is my point

You're playing the game of the IDF supporters.

This isn't the Israel genocide thread, but I will say that it blows my mind that people can be denying one genocide while speaking out against another. Absolutely incredible.

Now, the ICJ has found Russia's claim of genocide against Russian speakers is admissible. As a non legal man I reckon both Ukraine and Russian claims are bullshit legalise stuff.
https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/defau...1-eIHCU2oG1YxALySU6c.3DWIXV.InHmny70C7wXO0HnM

Similar arguments were used against Serbia which were found to be rubbish(a decade later after Milo had died in the Hague)

 

[CD Xbow]

I'm fully aware of that. I don't reckon we start using the word genocide lightly is my point

Now, the ICJ has found Russia's claim of genocide against Russian speakers is admissible. As a non legal man I reckon both Ukraine and Russian claims are bullshit legalise stuff.
https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/defau...1-eIHCU2oG1YxALySU6c.3DWIXV.InHmny70C7wXO0HnM

Similar arguments were used against Serbia which were found to be rubbish(a decade later after Milo had died in the Hague)

In the early 2000, I worked with a doctor from Bosnia and he reckons it was genocide being committed by the Bosnian Serbs. He lost family in the massacres.

Bosnian genocide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Zidane98]

Quoting quora lol, I'll put that aside though

But yeh Roblox is pretty widely known as a child grooming platform

https://www.theguardian.com/technol...children-roblox-deeply-disturbing-researchers
The report found that children as young as five were able to communicate with adults while playing games on the platform, and found examples of adults and children interacting with no effective age verification.

The report also found the avatar belonging to the 10-year-old’s account could access “highly suggestive environments”. These included a hotel space where they could view a female avatar wearing fishnet stockings gyrating on a bed and other avatars lying on top of each other in sexually suggestive poses, and a public bathroom space where characters were urinating and avatars could choose fetish accessories to dress up in.

Pedo Putin and your Russian child kidnapper / brainwashers would love it.

 

[Zidane98]

Ukraine was complicit in the ('illegal' etc)Iraq War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_involvement_in_the_Iraq_War

This killed......well debatable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
Population-based studies produce estimates of the number of Iraq War casualties ranging from 151,000 violent deaths as of June 2006 (per the Iraq Family Health Survey) to 1,033,000 excess deaths
https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/11/1166343
In total there have been 53,006 civilian casualties, including 14,534 deaths, since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia in 2022.

Most likely an undercount but genocide this is not

The old tankie "but what about Iraq" argument.


You are failing badly in your role of pro Russian troll as Russia has by some amazing coincidence attacked / invaded anyone that doesn't subvert to being a vatnik puppet state with regularity since the Russian federation started in 1991.

It also isn't surprising that you're leaving out the fact that invading Russian fascists still occupy much of Ukraine and have control of crime scenes / burial sites.

The scale of Mariupol burail sites is well known from satellite images with estimates that fascist Russians have killed between 80-100,000 of Mariupol's pre war population.

The scope of this won't be revealed until Russia leaves, just like at Bucha and at Lyman.

 

[IlovethePies]

Ukraine was complicit in the ('illegal' etc)Iraq War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_involvement_in_the_Iraq_War

This killed......well debatable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
Population-based studies produce estimates of the number of Iraq War casualties ranging from 151,000 violent deaths as of June 2006 (per the Iraq Family Health Survey) to 1,033,000 excess deaths
https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/11/1166343
In total there have been 53,006 civilian casualties, including 14,534 deaths, since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia in 2022.

Most likely an undercount but genocide this is not

You're a brave man for speaking the truth here.

The actions of the Netanyahu government in Gaza bear no comparison to the Russian military campaign in Ukraine.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine was profoundly criminal and reprehensible, but it is not genocidal in nature nor intent.

 

[wannabejack]

Ukraine was complicit in the ('illegal' etc)Iraq War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_involvement_in_the_Iraq_War

This killed......well debatable
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
Population-based studies produce estimates of the number of Iraq War casualties ranging from 151,000 violent deaths as of June 2006 (per the Iraq Family Health Survey) to 1,033,000 excess deaths
https://news.un.org/en/story/2025/11/1166343
In total there have been 53,006 civilian casualties, including 14,534 deaths, since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia in 2022.

Most likely an undercount but genocide this is not

Your trying to inflate Ukraine’s role in the Iraq War just like Aussie Cossack.

 

[IlovethePies]

There have been many cases as Barrenness points out where false claims of genocide were used as a pretext for imperialist intervention (Kosovo) and Trump's claim that a white genocide is taking place in South Africa to justify his radically racist immigration policies. Saddam Hussein was accused by Bush and Blair of being the contemporary Hitler as a pretext for them to launch their criminal war of aggression.

Both Ukraine and Russia are levelling claims of genocide against each other.

Genocide is a word that is thrown around all too casually and easily.

The actions of Israel in Gaza have been subject to a comprehensive scientific and legal analysis led by South Africa before the ICJ, which firmly established the genocidal nature of the actions of the Zionist regime.

 

[IlovethePies]

Look at the actual definition of genocide that everyone else is using.

You don't have to kill every resident of a country or every speaker of a language.

You're playing the game of the IDF supporters.

This isn't the Israel genocide thread, but I will say that it blows my mind that people can be denying one genocide while speaking out against another. Absolutely incredible.

You're speaking out against one genocide while lending political support to the enablers of it.
The Ukrainian government may not be exporting arms to Israel, but its backers certainly are.

 

[wannabejack]

Post misleads on Ukraine’s role in Iraq War

Get the latest Australian news and information in 65 languages

www.sbs.com.au

... the Ukrainian parliament approved a decision to send an 1800-strong peacekeeping force in September 2003. The decision followed a UN Security Council resolution on March 22, which “determined the political role of the UN in the post-conflict restoration of Iraq”.

 

[IlovethePies]

Nobody here gives.a shit about NATO except for you. Ukraine has not been a member of NATO and won't be for some time.

Most of us support Ukraine maintain its independence, choosing it's own future.

You support Pedo Putin taking Ukraine by force, attempting to occupy, genocide and subjugate the people of Ukraine all because they reject Russia outright.

How could Ukraine sustain this war for one moment without NATO support? The entire war, from the beginning, has been a NATO proxy war against Russia.

Ukraine's independence is a fraud. Its destiny has always been in the balance, and NATO/US imperialism have been conspiring to economically dominate it ever since Ukraine was established as an "independent" state in the early 90's. Likewise, Russia was striving to maintain its economic grip over Ukraine.

If you support "Ukraine's independence" currently, it automatically means you support NATO;s proxy war. Whether you acknowledge it or not, you must support NATO, because if NATO withdrew its support for Ukraine, Ukraine would collapse tomorrow.

Pointing out such elementary facts however doesn't imply support for Putin. Virtually every time I post here I point out the criminality of Putin's regime and my opposition to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Zelensky is operating a dictatorship where political opponents of the war are jailed and tortured. Bogdan Syrotiuk is a Ukrainian socialist who has been imprisoned in Ukraine on false allegations of treason. He was accused of acting in the interests of Russia because he opposed the war as an imperialist war, and called for the Ukrainian and Russian workers to unify against both governments. In Ukraine, any criticism of NATO and the war - especially on a left wing basis - is criminalised as "state treason", and state appointed "linguistic experts" are brought in to twist words and phrases to supposedly ''prove" that a "crime" has been committed.

Syrotiuk's defence lawyers hired a famous linguistic criminologist in Ukraine, Professor Uri Irkhin who has just delivered his report. Based on his reading of articles written by Syrotiuk,and sources quoted by Syrotiuk, Irkhin found no evidence whatsoever of language or statements by Syrotiuk supporting Russian aggression against Ukraine.

Irkhin is highly respected in Ukraine, and his review is a major embarrassment for the SBU and its attempts to frame up Syrotiuk.

The posters here who accuse me of supporting Putin are doing nothing new: they are following the script of the SBU,Zelensky's intelligence services.

 

[barreness]

In the early 2000, I worked with a doctor from Bosnia and he reckons it was genocide being committed by the Bosnian Serbs. He lost family in the massacres.

Bosnian genocide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes you have confused Bosnia and Serbia(at the time Yugoslavia), different cases.

The stuff that happened in Bosnia was horrific

 

[barreness]

Pedo Putin and your Russian child kidnapper / brainwashers would love it.

Room temperature IQ stuff from you here mate

 

[barreness]

The old tankie "but what about Iraq" argument.

Why not? Ukraine invades a country on spurious grounds, complains when it gets invaded on similar right?

You are failing badly in your role of pro Russian troll as Russia has by some amazing coincidence attacked / invaded anyone that doesn't subvert to being a vatnik puppet state with regularity since the Russian federation started in 1991.

It also isn't surprising that you're leaving out the fact that invading Russian fascists still occupy much of Ukraine and have control of crime scenes / burial sites.

The scale of Mariupol burail sites is well known from satellite images with estimates that fascist Russians have killed between 80-100,000 of Mariupol's pre war population.

I've posted stuff on this multiple times, you're talking rubbish but will change
Ukraine claims 20k dead
Russia claims 2k dead
The one independent analysis says 8k dead
Some TV producer says he saw a morgue report claiming 80k dead
You take the last one uncritically for obvious reasons

The scope of this won't be revealed until Russia leaves, just like at Bucha and at Lyman.

What all 20 odd that died in the Bucha massacre? Scale mate, scale

https://en.lb.ua/news/2022/04/02/12441_special_forces_regiment_safari.html
Special forces have begun a clearing operation in the city of Bucha in the Kyiv region, which has been liberated by the Armed Forces of Ukraine. The city is being cleared from saboteurs and accomplices of Russian forces.

Lets not ask too many questions about the clearing of 'collaborators' by a special forces unit.

 

[Zidane98]

Room temperature IQ stuff from you here mate

Says the Russian troll desperately defending Putin who is officially a paedophile.

That must be the worst part of your job man and the realisation that you're arguing for a lost cause. I feel for you and can understand why you would love the vodka bottle.

 

[barreness]

Your trying to inflate Ukraine’s role in the Iraq War just like Aussie Cossack.
View attachment 2495117

Look if you're gonna fire back can we not do AI screenshots, at least try read a little

Yes I know, they were just the Illegal occupation force, not the invasion like Australia. Georgia got involved too here.


I'm not inflating it, was sweet FA, just throws out the claims of international law etc. Was sucking up to the US and moving their army to be NATO intertwined

 

[barreness]

Post misleads on Ukraine’s role in Iraq War

Get the latest Australian news and information in 65 languages

www.sbs.com.au

... the Ukrainian parliament approved a decision to send an 1800-strong peacekeeping force in September 2003. The decision followed a UN Security Council resolution on March 22, which “determined the political role of the UN in the post-conflict restoration of Iraq”.

Spin it how you like, I will too. You can always choose not to be an occupation force after an illegal invasion by the worlds global hegemon

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Love that we're still using "NATO proxy" when NATO was 90+% the US and has been for a couple years completely decoupled from the current Russian compromised regime.

But here we still are. The paid guy understands this, the bot likely less so.

Tell me how NATO, controlled by who now? Is desperate for a fight with Russia? barreness do you have any updated lines for this one? I'm guessing you'll ignore as you usually do or maybe run with something deep state if you're really leaning into the weekend.

 

[Zidane98]

How could Ukraine sustain this war for one moment without NATO support? The entire war, from the beginning, has been a NATO proxy war against Russia.

Ukraine's independence is a fraud. Its destiny has always been in the balance, and NATO/US imperialism have been conspiring to economically dominate it ever since Ukraine was established as an "independent" state in the early 90's. Likewise, Russia was striving to maintain its economic grip over Ukraine.

If you support "Ukraine's independence" currently, it automatically means you support NATO;s proxy war. Whether you acknowledge it or not, you must support NATO, because if NATO withdrew its support for Ukraine, Ukraine would collapse tomorrow.

Pointing out such elementary facts however doesn't imply support for Putin. Virtually every time I post here I point out the criminality of Putin's regime and my opposition to the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Zelensky is operating a dictatorship where political opponents of the war are jailed and tortured. Bogdan Syrotiuk is a Ukrainian socialist who has been imprisoned in Ukraine on false allegations of treason. He was accused of acting in the interests of Russia because he opposed the war as an imperialist war, and called for the Ukrainian and Russian workers to unify against both governments. In Ukraine, any criticism of NATO and the war - especially on a left wing basis - is criminalised as "state treason", and state appointed "linguistic experts" are brought in to twist words and phrases to supposedly ''prove" that a "crime" has been committed.

Syrotiuk's defence lawyers hired a famous linguistic criminologist in Ukraine, Professor Uri Irkhin who has just delivered his report. Based on his reading of articles written by Syrotiuk,and sources quoted by Syrotiuk, Irkhin found no evidence whatsoever of language or statements by Syrotiuk supporting Russian aggression against Ukraine.

Irkhin is highly respected in Ukraine, and his review is a major embarrassment for the SBU and its attempts to frame up Syrotiuk.

The posters here who accuse me of supporting Putin are doing nothing new: they are following the script of the SBU,Zelensky's intelligence services.

Funny you complain about being accused of supporting Putin.

This post proves what and who you are as nearly everything you post mirrors his genocidal fascist propaganda about Ukraine.

Yes, Ukraine has held off Russia without NATO.

I know you are trained not to believe that but that is reality.

The reason is Ukrainians are fighting for their future. Your mob are fascist invading genocidal scum who you try to hide your support for but fail to.

Ukraine decides its own future and destiny. Nor a USSR era fascist piece of shit modern day Hitler. Not the US or European nations.

And in bad news for you Russia are losing and will never ever be welcome in Ukraine again

It's a guarantee, the only question is how much damage Adolf Putin does before he kills himself in his bunker or is assassinated.

Also let's face it - without support from fellow human rights abusers North Korea Putin would've lost this war along time ago.

Respectful people support Ukraine to not have a neighbour invade it in an attempt to erase and genocide the people of Ukraine.

That doesn't appear to be you at all.

 

[barreness]

Love that we're still using "NATO proxy" when NATO was 90+% the US and has been for a couple years completely decoupled from the current Russian compromised regime.

But here we still are. The paid guy understands this, the bot likely less so.

Tell me how NATO, controlled by who now? Is desperate for a fight with Russia? barreness do you have any updated lines for this one? I'm guessing you'll ignore as you usually do or maybe run with something deep state if you're really leaning into the weekend.

I mean the head of NATO called Trump daddy mid this year, EU took the tariffs while licking the boot. Europe clearly wants the Americans to stay

It's like 50/60% of standing NATO power is US, command and control is still synced centrally and US based.

NATO is still US controlled and is the jewel in the crown as far as the US empire goes. They won't abandon it easily, they will make them grovel as we've seen.

My points haven't changed tbh. It's the anti Trumpers that have changed to a 'stab in the back' thing.

“It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.”​

 

[IlovethePies]

Love that we're still using "NATO proxy" when NATO was 90+% the US and has been for a couple years completely decoupled from the current Russian compromised regime.

But here we still are. The paid guy understands this, the bot likely less so.

Tell me how NATO, controlled by who now? Is desperate for a fight with Russia? barreness do you have any updated lines for this one? I'm guessing you'll ignore as you usually do or maybe run with something deep state if you're really leaning into the weekend.

At least this post does contain a legitimate question.

The US government was entirely pro-NATO under Biden and Harris. Trump however represents another section of the US oligarchy,which disagrees with the section represented by the Democrats. The Democrats are all for the war against Russia: hell, they tried to indict Trump when he was president the first time because in their eyes he wasn't willing to prosecute it eagerly enough.

However, Trump is much better prepared this time. He has announced openly and scathingly his contempt for Europe and for NATO. He has ensured this time that his entire entourage of cronies will fall in line (JD Vance, etc).

Trump doesn't want US military resources deployed in Ukraine any more. He has set his sights on Venezuela and the rest of Latin America. Ultimately, his main target is China, which he views as an existential threat to US imperialism. He wants to resolve the war in Ukraine at the expense of the former NATO allies.

The European members of NATO (France, Germany, Netherlands, UK) are hysterically attempting to railroad any peace negotiations because they stand to lose everything. They've invested billions in arming and training Ukraine's army, and now Trump threatens to do a deal which will cut them out of everything.

Instead, US corporations will feasts on the profits from reconstructing Ukraine and - in collaboration with Putin - from extracting critical minerals.

Europe will be left high and dry.

Hence the frenzied efforts of European political and military figures to prevent any peace settlement and, instead, escalate the war.

We are not just witnessing a war between NATO and Russia. What is also increasingly appearing is a war between Europe and the US, as there are no friends among thieves.