Shooting at a Jewish event in Bondi

[_Mike_]

MOD NOTE: leave the hateful comments out of the thread, this is not the place for it

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I found it on the ABC. Ahmed Al Ahmed is hiding behind the palm tree but facing the gunmen. How did he get shot in the back?

Parents praise 'hero' son for tackling gunman during Bondi Beach attack

The ABC has spoken to the parents of Ahmed Al Ahmed who was shot after he heroically wrestled and disarmed one of the Bondi Beach attackers.

www.abc.net.au

He was shot in the arm and hand. The picture of him in hospital shows that.

 

[BFew]

Surely allowing Jewish security group CSG security officers to be fully armed at all events (and not just at places of worship and schools) will result in similar for some non-Jewish security groups.

I wonder how supportive NSW Police will be of this.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/three-police-on-duty-when-terror-struck/news-story/d12d2f90d1c73aeab02b490618e00910

'Mr Minns said the licence of Jewish security group CSG only permitted its members to carry weapons at places of worship and schools and guards at the Hanukkah event on Bondi Beach were unarmed. However, he said his government was considering allowing guards to be armed at future events.

“We are in discussions with them about events, Jewish events in particular,” he said.'

 

[Jazny]

People really think you just pull out a pistol, amble up and take them out like it’s GTA.

That's essentially what happened.

The moment hero cop guns down Bondi Beach terrorist

Footage has emerged of a police officer’s heroic actions on Sunday night.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Bostonian]

Surely allowing Jewish security group CSG security officers to be fully armed at all events (and not just at places of worship and schools) will result in similar for some non-Jewish security groups.

I wonder how supportive NSW Police will be of this.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/three-police-on-duty-when-terror-struck/news-story/d12d2f90d1c73aeab02b490618e00910

'Mr Minns said the licence of Jewish security group CSG only permitted its members to carry weapons at places of worship and schools and guards at the Hanukkah event on Bondi Beach were unarmed. However, he said his government was considering allowing guards to be armed at future events.

“We are in discussions with them about events, Jewish events in particular,” he said.'

Not all security is equal.

These kinds of security groups are generally all ex-military or police.

 

[faible]

In relation to the timing of the police response, if you search YouTube for "Police Shooting", you will see that in the US regular traffic or beat cops get to work immediately as soon as a gun is in sight. Over there they don't wait for SWAT to arrive when seconds count. Neutralise the threat, then call it in over the radio. After 20 years of school shootings, they are trained now that first woman or man in, even if solo, has to put fire on the target, every minute wasted is lives lost.

This is fantasy. Even in the US where they deal with guns a lot, the police regularly respond in ways that wouldn't be in a Hollywood movie:

The police response to the Uvalde shooting was riddled with failures, a new DOJ report says

Police officials who responded to the deadly school shooting in Uvalde, Texas “demonstrated no urgency," according to a new Justice Department report.

apnews.com

 

[Lady O]

I found it on the ABC. Ahmed Al Ahmed is hiding behind the palm tree but facing the gunmen. How did he get shot in the back?

Parents praise 'hero' son for tackling gunman during Bondi Beach attack

The ABC has spoken to the parents of Ahmed Al Ahmed who was shot after he heroically wrestled and disarmed one of the Bondi Beach attackers.

www.abc.net.au

Cops can't win. Either they had a poor or slow response, or they should have shot the man after he was disarmed!! WTF

 

[faible]

Cops can't win. Either they had a poor or slow response, or they should have shot the man after he was disarmed!! WTF

Way too many armchair Rambos.

 

[Toump Ass]

Cops are useless, I think we can all see that now.

Clearly need more ciggie-dealing immigrants to keep the Aussies safe, sorry Pauline!

 

[Jazny]

This is fantasy. Even in the US where they deal with guns a lot, the police regularly respond in ways that wouldn't be in a Hollywood movie:

The police response to the Uvalde shooting was riddled with failures, a new DOJ report says

Police officials who responded to the deadly school shooting in Uvalde, Texas “demonstrated no urgency," according to a new Justice Department report.

apnews.com

It's not fantasy, it doesn't always happen, but Australia has the same policy.


I would wait for the review before suggesting any police on scene acted wrongly, but if any didn't follow the guidelines then they will be criticized. We know many who responded acted bravely. They were out-matched for firepower.

Police SHOULD be expected to get to an active shooter and return fire before waiting. Terrorists in Israel where the terror threat is high are killed very quickly just by random people with gun training sometimes before the police even arrive. It's not unreasonable to expect armed police to respond as soon as possible, even if it's just to keep the shooter's head down. We saw Ahmed and earlier an elderly Jewish man earlier disarm one of the shooters barehanded, that is heroic and "Hollywood", and they were just civilians.

 

[mighty_lions]

They will go to Israel. In the middle of a war zone. They will be welcomed. The government won’t equivocate about their safety.

Real smart logic even more chance of being killed

 

[Lady O]

It's not fantasy, it doesn't always happen, but Australia has the same policy.
View attachment 2497455

I would wait for the review before suggesting any police on scene acted wrongly, but if any didn't follow the guidelines then they will be criticized. We know many who responded acted bravely. They were out-matched for firepower.

Police SHOULD be expected to get to an active shooter and return fire before waiting. Terrorists in Israel where the terror threat is high are killed very quickly just by random people with gun training sometimes before the police even arrive. It's not unreasonable to expect armed police to respond as soon as possible, even if it's just to keep the shooter's head down. We saw Ahmed and earlier an elderly Jewish man earlier disarm one of the shooters barehanded, that is heroic and "Hollywood", and they were just civilians.

Don't know if it still applies, but back a few years, all eligible men in Israel were required to do military training. A bit different in Oz. Computer games don't count.

 

[Jazny]

Don't know if it still applies, but back a few years, all eligible men in Israel were required to do military training. A bit different in Oz. Computer games don't count.

Yeah we are very lucky. The point I was making was not that I expect civilians to return fire, that I expect trained police who are first on the scene to return fire as soon as possible and it's not unrealistic to expect that to happen. It's the expectation of their own guidelines also. I am not saying in this case the guidelines weren't followed either because we don't know yet, but it's one of the questions that will be asked in all the reviews and inquiries that will happen.

 

[Frank Bunn]

He was shot in the arm and hand. The picture of him in hospital shows that.

His former migration lawyer Sam Issa, who visited him on Monday, said that doctors had yet to remove a bullet from the back of Mr. Al-Ahmed's shoulder as of Monday night, describing the injury as 'weird'. "Given the fact that he was facing the shooter, how did he get a bullet in the back of his shoulder? It's strange", Mr Issa said.

Also, the damage to his arm and shoulder are consistent with being shot by police pistols. If he had been shot in the shoulder by a hunting rifle we are talking potential loss of limb or even life threatening.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Real smart logic even more chance of being killed

By whom? Hamas? Hezbollah? Iran? Yemen? Someone else? All of the above? Sounds as if Israel must be under siege. Why don’t we help them?

 

[faible]

By whom? Hamas? Hezbollah? Iran? Yemen? Someone else? All of the above? Sounds as if Israel must be under siege. Why don’t we help them?

There's a whole entire thread you can post in if you want to go down this rabbit hole.

 

[The Blue Max]

His former migration lawyer Sam Issa, who visited him on Monday, said that doctors had yet to remove a bullet from the back of Mr. Al-Ahmed's shoulder as of Monday night, describing the injury as 'weird'. "Given the fact that he was facing the shooter, how did he get a bullet in the back of his shoulder? It's strange", Mr Issa said.

Also, the damage to his arm and shoulder are consistent with being shot by police pistols. If he had been shot in the shoulder by a hunting rifle we are talking potential loss of limb or even life threatening.

They’ll find out when they dig it out - maybe that was why he raised his hand?

 

[TheSausageDog]

I caught up with some mates for a dinner on the Monday night and was accompanied by an acquaintance who is a Sri Lankan, brown, Buddhist, woke, ultra economic conservative, pro-Palestinian, pro-Russian, intellectual pygmy. The intellectual pygmy in him makes this guy a useful idiot in terms of consuming far left, pro-Palestinian propaganda without the capabilities to think through it critically. The algorithm of his news feed has a lot to answer for. The thing that disturbed me was in his words he lacked 'sympathy' for Jews no less than a day after the massacre in light of what he sees on his news feed about the conflict in the Middle East.

Obviously, his talking point was the heroics of Ahmad Al Ahmed, who we now know is Muslim. Identity politics is polarizing issue in politics in the West, I countered this with, and let's understand the context here, that it doesn't really matter what his religion is/was. The hero was a few screws loose (IMO) to do what he did, he is a Hero, and he deserves all the accolades and all the money raised in his go fund me page. And really in times of crisis like that you need people like that, see trolley man in 2018.

And it's a valid point. People pushing their narratives/agendas like to latch on to this Ahmed's religion like it's the center of this man's being. Like, how devout is he? Does he go to a mosque like once a week, once a month, or only at funerals, weddings and ceremonies? How many people in here can identify with a religion they were raised up, but have veered to agnostics or become an atheist, but will tick catholic in the box. Is Ahmed as Muslim as I am catholic and I go to church once in a blue moon and only at funerals. There'd be so much depth to this person, but people pushing agendas lurch out claiming he's Christian or Muslim when in fact it might have very little to do with this man's being.

 

[mighty_lions]

By whom? Hamas? Hezbollah? Iran? Yemen? Someone else? All of the above? Sounds as if Israel must be under siege. Why don’t we help them?

Yeah none of that was what I was talking about but continue with your rant

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Radicalised here in Australia

KILLER LINKED TO ‘FACTORY OF HATE’

KILLER LINKED TO ‘FACTORY OF HATE’

todayspaper.theaustralian.com.au

 

[Jim Cricket]

Yeah we are very lucky. The point I was making was not that I expect civilians to return fire, that I expect trained police who are first on the scene to return fire as soon as possible and it's not unrealistic to expect that to happen. It's the expectation of their own guidelines also. I am not saying in this case the guidelines weren't followed either because we don't know yet, but it's one of the questions that will be asked in all the reviews and inquiries that will happen.

Crossfire would be more of a problem with handguns or with someone not highly trained with their gun, or even someone nervous in the situation. Imagine if the cop in the following video shot a little bit to the right, we might have a dead camera person.

That's essentially what happened.

The moment hero cop guns down Bondi Beach terrorist

Footage has emerged of a police officer’s heroic actions on Sunday night.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Jazny]

Crossfire would be more of a problem with handguns or with someone not highly trained with their gun, or even someone nervous in the situation. Imagine if the cop in the following video shot a little bit to the right, we might have a dead camera person.

It's risk maybe crossfire or let the shooters have clear shots at people. These are the hard real world problems that police and military have to think about.

 

[pjcrows]

Within 48 hours it's gone from "two Pakistanis targeting Jews because Albanese let terrorists in and he needs to resign", to "two Pakistanis targeting Jews because Albanese is a Hamas apologist, is soft on antisemitism and needs to resign", to it actually being an Indian who migrated 25 years ago under Howard and his Australian-born son targeting Jews, with legally obtained guns, while bearing ISIS flags, who actually oppose Hamas.

And out trots Howard to say Albanese is weak.

 

[The Blue Max]

I agree that 50m or anything over 25m is a difficult shot, but you could certainly good luck rounds onto the perp at that range, couldn't you? Wouldn't near misses cause the bad guy to be distracted, or duck, or otherwise slow down his rate of fire and the accuracy of his fire towards the unarmed civilians. And if the suspect is firing at the cop he is not firing at civilians either.

It really depends on the positioning of the police. I’m not familiar with the landscape, but I imagine there was a significant risk of police shooting ‘friendlies’ if they missed - there was certainly no structures framing the bridge which would prevent over-shooting.

What I want to know was how far away were Special Ops or CT squad - the whole thing was left to Divisional police it seems.

 

[Gigantic]

It really depends on the positioning of the police. I’m not familiar with the landscape, but I imagine there was a significant risk of police shooting ‘friendlies’ if they missed - there was certainly no structures framing the bridge which would prevent over-shooting.

The cop who took the kill shot was flanking from the Bondi Pavillion side.

You will also notice a lot of the footage being recorded is from behind the shooters on the non-beach side. That makes sense as a lot of civilians would have been rushing away from the beach and seeking cover in shops and behind bus stops.

So yeah, I think there was certainly that risk.

What I want to know was how far away were Special Ops or CT squad - the whole thing was left to Divisional police it seems.

I believe the Tactical Operations Unit has a base in Surry Hills, would have taken more than 10 mins trying to navigate Sunday traffic.

 

[brutus76]

Geez everyone is quick to play the blame game.

As long as there is action on both fronts it's for the GREATER GOOD for the future and safety of everyone.