Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[Dogs_R_Us]

When you've got actual Politicians blaming things like pro-Palestinian protests for the violent actions of two people seemingly radicalised by ISIS, it's going to get ugly.

Which is precisely why normally it's a bi-partisan approach to calm things down, not inflame them.

Are you sure only two have been radicalised? In the whole of Australia?

 

[faible]

How many militants have been killed?

Many less than civilians have been killed, many many less than civilians have been injured, displaced and starved.

As I said, let's be clear here; you're supportive of the mass slaughter of civilians.

 

[schneebly111]

And it wasn't their definition, it was International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s (IHRA) definition of anti-semitism.

But the IHRA definition is controversial as it has conflated some criticism of Israeli actions as “antisemitism”

IHRA definition of antisemitism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Sphynx]

When you've got actual Politicians blaming things like pro-Palestinian protests for the violent actions of two people seemingly radicalised by ISIS, it's going to get ugly.

Which is precisely why normally it's a bi-partisan approach to calm things down, not inflame them.

Albo's special envoy to combat antisemitism, which he elected, attributed elements of the protests to increasing antisemitism and that was 7 months ago.

It's disingenuous to just blame politicians in the last 48 hrs.

It's a legitimate discussion as to whether parts of them did.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Many less than civilians have been killed, many many less than civilians have been injured, displaced and starved.

As I said, let's be clear here; you're supportive of the mass slaughter of civilians.

Come on, give us a number.

 

[faible]

Are you sure only two have been radicalised? In the whole of Australia?

I mean I didn't say that, did I?

There's many radicalised people out there. We had radicalised Christians in Queensland, we've had a radicalised sovereign citizen in Victoria. You weren't calling for Albanese to demand the Christian community condemn Weiambilla.

 

[Sphynx]

But the IHRA definition is controversial as it has conflated some criticism of Israeli actions as “antisemitism”

IHRA definition of antisemitism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I know.

But this was the current Governments own elected envoy making those recommendations, which they requested her to do, which included that definition.

If they disagreed with it, they should have removed her and proceeded with a new report.

 

[faible]

Come on, give us a number.

You seem really concerned with one singular number.

How about this one? More than 20,000 dead children. That's half a Marvel Stadium. That's what you're supporting.

GAZA: 20,000 CHILDREN KILLED IN 23 MONTHS OF WAR - MORE THAN ONE CHILD KILLED EVERY HOUR

At least one Palestinian child has been killed every hour on average by Israeli forces in Gaza over nearly 23 months of war, with the number of children killed now surpassing 20,000, Save the Children said.

www.savethechildren.net

 

[schneebly111]

When you've got actual Politicians blaming things like pro-Palestinian protests for the violent actions of two people seemingly radicalised by ISIS, it's going to get ugly.

Which is precisely why normally it's a bi-partisan approach to calm things down, not inflame them.

Just shows how far the Libs have fallen if only a handful of state leaders and ex leaders like Kelli Sloane and Turnbull are the ones not jumping on the hate bandwagon.

How can this mob pretend to be an actual government and not a hate mob?

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

I mean I didn't say that, did I?

There's many radicalised people out there. We had radicalised Christians in Queensland, we've had a radicalised sovereign citizen in Victoria. You weren't calling for Albanese to demand the Christian community condemn Weiambilla.

I’m talking about Islamic State extremists as you know. Did you read those articles I posted? It’s hard to believe these two are the only ones.

 

[Scotland]

A true leader would take clear decisive action targetting head on the anti-semitism that has snowballed in this country and would not be afraid to make clear most comes directly from a small but extreme element of our muslim population. Its a complete and utter failure of leadership for him not to do that.

Most antisemitism in Australia does not come from the Muslim community, though. There is not some underground war going on between Muslims and Jews that everyone else is oblivious to. That's not to say rates of antisemitism in the Muslim community are not higher (or lower), but you're talking about 3% of the population who definitely aren't making 100% of the noise. If there was an attack specifically targeting say the Serbian community in Australia, your first thought would probably be that the perpetrators were of Bosnian/Croatian background because of their history. There's no general anti Serb sentiment bubbling away in the wider community that I am aware of. An attack against the Jewish community could have been by anyone, including those that also hate Muslims. An attack by Muslims targeting Jews isn't surprising, but an attack by Muslim extremists targeting a Christmas function or a surf club function or anything else at Bondi wouldn't have been surprising either. Muslim extremism and antisemitism are two separate issues.

Most antisemitism in Australia today is being fostered by rent a crowd protestors and condoned by the federal government and its action/inaction. Most of the hysterical masses screaming about "Palestine" are not Palestinian or Muslim or Arab, they've just adopted a cause. Albo isn't responsible for Sunday's tragic events or decades of govt failures, but he has directly contributed to the rise of antisemitism in Australia over the last two years. He chose to placate the angry mob, that much is on him. Fairly or not he will be remembered as the PM who chose to 'recognise a state of Palestine' months before an antisemitic terrorist attack on home soil. Say what you want about Netanyahu but "antisemitism is a cancer" that "spreads when leaders stay silent" is sadly proven to be true.

Albo is a weak leader, most of them are. John Howard talks tough now, but he's been out of office for nearly 20 years and sounds like he's just turned 100. He wouldn't be making the same statements he is today if he was PM. Nor would Tony Abbott, who I saw a clip about the other day (I believe he was on Dave Rubin's thing when he was in Australia) saying he had thoughts on immigration, Islam etc but didn't want to share them.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

I’m talking about Islamic State extremists as you know. Did you read those articles I posted? It’s hard to believe these two are the only ones.

That bloke you support, Netanyahu. He is funding and arming ISIS

Netanyahu: Israel fighting Hamas 'in various ways' amid claims it armed ISIS-tied militia

Israeli Lawmaker Avigdor Lieberman Alleged Netanyahu Is Now Supporting a New Militia to Counter Hamas. Sources Told Haaretz Last Week That an Armed Group Tied to Yasser Abu Shabab Has Recently Begun Operating in Southern Gaza

www.haaretz.com

 

[ElectricG]

That bloke you support, Netanyahu. He is funding and arming ISIS

Netanyahu: Israel fighting Hamas 'in various ways' amid claims it armed ISIS-tied militia

Israeli Lawmaker Avigdor Lieberman Alleged Netanyahu Is Now Supporting a New Militia to Counter Hamas. Sources Told Haaretz Last Week That an Armed Group Tied to Yasser Abu Shabab Has Recently Begun Operating in Southern Gaza

www.haaretz.com

The hell is this website

 

[faible]

I’m talking about Islamic State extremists as you know. Did you read those articles I posted? It’s hard to believe these two are the only ones.

Why does only IS extremism matter? We've had multiple people shot by extremists of various flavours recently.

 

[faible]

The hell is this website

Haaretz?

It's a pretty well known, long-running Israeli news publication.

Haaretz - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ghost Patrol]

The hell is this website

It's an Israeli newspaper

 

[schneebly111]

Most antisemitism in Australia today is being fostered by rent a crowd protestors

99% of pro Palestine protesters have not targeted Jewish people. Jewish people have been at the forefront of the pro Palestine movement (Antony Loewenstein). You found a couple of IS flags amongst 250,000 protesters. Which was wrong and the organisers condemned them

He chose to placate the angry mob, that much is on him.

If you’d actually listened to the pro Palestine movement they hate Albo. They think he’s been far too weak and slow to condemn the Israeli government.

Fairly or not he will be remembered as the PM who chose to 'recognise a state of Palestine' months before an antisemitic terrorist attack on home soil.

What did that have to do with the attack?

 

[ElectricG]

It's an Israeli newspaper

View attachment 2497746

Is there verified evidence or just someone’s accusation?

 

[FlowersByIrene]

FlowersByIrene is one of the most extreme, hysterical, hate filled individuals I've ever come across on these boards.

The fact he sees himself as some kind of clear eyed philosophical rationalist is equal parts hilarious and sad.

Nothing but love for my fellow Australians - other than radical Islamists (and radical leftists who support them).

 

[stax on the mull]

Once again, over 2000 attacks on jews in a year. 2 places of worshipped firebombed.

You on the spectrum? Can you do math bro?

Which report are you quoting? If it's the one compiled by the Executive Council of Australian Jewry the graph shows you the breakdown of incidents eg: 2% vandalism 1% assault. I'm not going to trivialize the impact of any of these incidents but they are all listed usually with a short sentence in the report - and the largest grouping is "abuse". This is usually individual people or small groups shouting things out anonymously, sometimes randomly, hate speech with violent rhetoric, but they come from all different sources. Some are between school children, some are yelled out from cars going past Synagogues, some are quite clearly Nazi abuse.

Because often the perpetrators aren't identified there's no indication if it's repeat offenders doing the same thing 10-15 times in one night or one week. Some of it is plainly Nazi hatred. The use of Nazi gestures and Nazi rhetoric separate from any reference to Gaza. There's no indication sometimes if the abuse happened as a back and forth argument that escalated into hate speech. I saw a video of one incident that was matched by a description in the report - a woman supporting Palestine by her choice of clothing and patting, maybe calming her 2 dogs eventually gets filmed giving the middle finger and saying "Long Live Hamas" "F--- the Jews", but she was also being goaded into saying something - It doesn't make clear how many are premeditated incidents - it could sometimes be that the initial conflict is that each side has identified the other as being on opposite side over the war in Gaza and there's mutual hatred in the conversation.

I don't know how many of these the police/ASIO are expected to investigate under the policy recommendations of the Segal plan to stop antisemitism?

One of the bizarre ones was a Suncorp bank teller machine not far from a Synagogue in Bondi that supposedly spewed out $50 notes that were black inked marked with Nazi symbols and "F--- the Jews", only reported as being received by Jewish users of that machine. That was a claim posted by the then AJA's David Adler on the social media site X. It has never been proved.

Some of the examples under "posters" seem more like politically offensive free speech. Eg A poster parodying the Liberal party election campaign "L" graphic and in a sort of hybrid blue/white colour mix of the Liberal party and of the flag of Israel says: "Giving Jews Everything They Want" may be offensive to some, not to others. Another poster that is labelled antisemitic is merely the image of the Israel flag with a symbol superimposed. Is that offensive to every Australian Jew?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Is there verified evidence or just someone’s accusation?

Do some research

 

[ElectricG]

Do some research

View attachment 2497747

Some vague search results aren’t verified evidence… if we’re going with crappy ways of verifying a fact I’ll offer this up:

 

[Festerz]

I know.

But this was the current Governments own elected envoy making those recommendations, which they requested her to do, which included that definition.

If they disagreed with it, they should have removed her and proceeded with a new report.

So appoint another Special Envoy - someone who will tell them exactly what they want to hear- be it definitions or specific actions?

This is satire right?

The Special Envoy was appointed as an independent expert to 'engage with Jewish Australians, the wider Australian community and all levels of government on the most effective way to combat the growing problem of antisemitism.'

This does not mean that all her advice would be accepted and acted on without government consideration. Especially as many aspect of her report have been criticised by many Jewish scholars and academics - including the Jewish Council of Australia. Indeed given the Federal Government has a responsibility to the welfare, justice and safety of ALL Australians it is not surprising that some aspects of the Segal report were not accepted on face value - particularly those which in the minds of many Human Rights lawyers, conflict with Australian recognised principles of political freedoms and justice. For example:

Antisemitism plan fails on a number of fronts – a contentious definition of hate is just the start

www.humanrights.unsw.edu.au

It is to the credit of the Albanese Government that they did not sack Segal because her report included recommendations that they did not agree with or which did not align with the Australian judicial framework. Segal's Report was tabled just five months ago and many of the recommendations HAVE been acted on by the Government - including criminalising hate speech, creating a national student ombudsman to investigate universities, and developing a university report card to promote inclusivity for Jewish students and staff.

Yes, Albanese and his Government deserves criticism on the failure to act immediately in implementing the other recommendations of the Report they DO agree with. But a lag of 5 months in considering and enacting legislation and regulations flowing from the recommendations of an Independent Report is hardly unusual.

And the partisan screeching by those with a political axe to grind that not enacting ALL recommendations of a Report that was one year in development and finalised just a few months ago has somehow contributed to the massacre of innocent people by a murderous zealot and his father does not stack up to any fair scrutiny.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Some vague search results aren’t verified evidence… if we’re going with crappy ways of verifying a fact I’ll offer this up:
View attachment 2497758

Somehow I don't think ISIS are registered for GST, or even sending tax invoices to Netanyahu.

 

[Saint]

That is not what the report handed to the Federal Government recommended.

It recommended "violent or intimidating protest activity" be considered hate speech and a hate crime.

And it wasn't their definition, it was International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s (IHRA) definition of anti-semitism.


No doubt there will be a Royal Commission, I'm sure the ALP will get absolutely chewed out during it for the fact that they were handed the report 7 months ago and the only recommendations they have acted on were banning Nazi Flags and symbols.

The Envoy did not have to adopt the world's stupidest definition of anti-semitism, she chose to. And it undermines everything else she did. Because she prioritised Israel over Australian Jews.

If that stupid definition were applied in Australia, then criticism of Indigenous bodies would be considered racism. Or even criticism of the Australian Government.

Again, for the 1,000th time, I ask. Which of her recommendations would have changed anything? Many of them, including that definition being adopted, would have only created more division. We would create one country in the world that we can't criticise because it's racist? Just stupid no matter which way you look at it.

The definition of intimidating protest activity would have no doubt included criticism of Israel being again tied to anti-semitism. That was her whole focus and it will fall flat in time, just like it did when it was first released (and rightly ridiculed).