Opinion AUSTRALIAN Politics: Adelaide Board Discussion Part 6

[Kane McGoodwin]

But there weren’t Royal Commission into them either.

This was primarily a failure of our intelligence agencies. Nothing to do with immigration and nothing to do with the Government recognising a two state solution.

Agree there appears to be a failure of ASIO & AFP.

Also, we need a review of gun laws.

Also, need a serious discussion about have speech & propaganda inciting violence.

There are enough issues to warrant a Royal Commission to have a safer Australian society imo.

The public deserves a thorough process.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Firstly all I am reading on this thread is one side presenting facts and the other trying to use it as political gain. The calling out of genocide was spot on and well deserved, plus the UN and several countries condemned Israel for the way they were handling this war.

Agree there appears to be a failure of ASIO & AFP.

Also, we need a review of gun laws.

Also, need a serious discussion about have speech & propaganda inciting violence.

There are enough issues to warrant a Royal Commission to have a safer Australian society imo.

The public deserves a thorough process.

Gun laws surely will be reviewed. However they are sensationally strict as they are. So the question was whether there was a breakdown of governance of applying these laws. You need a genuine reason to own the weapons. Ive read some people have been found to be legally owning a cache of weapons. How can this happen if you need genuine reasons. Yes you need different types of guns for different gun sports and hunting but there is not a bullshit chance in hell someone needs all those guns. So yeah, probably a crackdown on that.

Its funny isnt it. If you are a reasonable law abiding citizen and you type how to make B.... into google ASIO will knock down your door and you will be arrested. Yet...come from another country you just get watched from a distance. Definitely a failure there. If they were on a watch list, police should be knocking on their door almost daily to remind them they are being watched. Sitting back going they were known...thats just outright incompetence.

The hate speech thing is interesting. The UK have dealt with it and they are making changes as we speak as they admit to over policing it. Remember, where do you draw the line to hate speech? is asking a question on an issue like 'why did the Jewish government commit genocide?' is that hate speech, because i hate to say it under hate speech laws that can qualify because it can incite violence.

Im just not convinced we can define hate speech well enough or with enough backbone, so that if the government does open this door we only include what is necessary without all these fringe advocacy groups e.g. 'woke' throw in to the laws every minor wording that completely destroys free speech around social issues including discussion of immigration etc.

So if you think about it this way. Do we trust a government in the age of 'social media govern for votes' popular policy style governing (this is the same government who tried to bring in the voice) to be able to control itself and say no?

 

[Bearded Clam]

Must admit I wondered about that too. I would have said that it's been around for at least 3000 years, and probably more.

Yeah, I know..
but how far back can we go?.. I was trying to put it in the context/terms of antisemitism in our modern civilisation.. not go as far back as what happened in the dark ages and beyond..

Its hard to argue that the worst form of antisemitism in modern times reared its ugly head in the 1930’s..

 

[Bearded Clam]

Nothing to see here ....

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-victoria/car-decorated-for-hanukkah-firebombed-in-st-kilda-east-on-christmas-morning/news-story/437f0044c638e2730ec46a0e3381e4a0

Car decorated for Chanukah firebombed in St Kilda East on Christmas morning​

A rabbi’s car, which was decorated for Chanukah, has been targeted in a firebombing in Melbourne’s East on Christmas morning.

A car displaying Chanukah decorations has been targeted in a firebombing on Christmas morning in St Kilda East.
Footage from Thursday morning shows police tape draped across the Balaclava Rd property with a crime scene technician taking photos of the burnt-out car. On its roof was a sign reading Happy Chanukah.

The grey Mazda CX9 was completely destroyed on the inside with multiple windows blown out.

The car belongs to a rabbi who requested not to be named.
The rabbi, who was not at home at the time, told the Herald Sun his wife and their small children were sleeping inside when the attack occurred.

“My wife heard the car alarm go off and looked out the window and the car was on fire,” he said.

“She rushed the kids out the back door.

“I spoke with them briefly on the phone and the kids were crying.”

He said he had contemplated removing the decoration from the car but had wanted it to remain for the final days of Chanukah.
The rabbi said people needed to remain vigilant, particularly after the Bondi terror attack, in which 15 people celebrating Chanukah at the iconic beach were gunned down in a terrorist attack.

“Small things become bigger things,” he said.

“People thought something like Bondi wouldn’t happen and yet it did.”

Jewish leader Elyse Schachna said the firebombing came at a time when the community was already on edge.

“We won’t speculate on motive, but one fact stands out: only one car was damaged — the one displaying a Jewish symbol,” she said.

“In the wake of Bondi, this has heightened concern within an already vulnerable community.”

The Community Security Group notified the Jewish community of the firebombing just after 9am and urged people to be vigilant.

“CSG Victoria advises that just after 3.00 this morning, a car with a Chanukiah on the roof was firebombed in St Kilda East,” an alert read.
Chair of the Anti-Defamation Commission Dr Dvir Abramovich said it was a disgusting act on what should be a special day.

“Another day, another anti-Semitic attack. It is a miracle no one was killed. We should not confuse luck with safety.

“Things are out of control in this city and this is the new normal for Jews in Australia and what happens when hatred is allowed to spread — it doesn’t disappear, it looks for another outlet.”

Dr Abramovich said it was especially distressing considering the Bondi massacre.

Mutineer… You will be pleased to know they have a suspect..

Motive probed after suspect ID'ed in Hanukkah car fire

Police are keeping an open mind over the motive of a 47-year-old person of interest alleged to be involved in a fire of a car bearing a Hanukkah sign.

www.thenewdaily.com.au

A man who has a history of breaking into cars.. and lighting fires..

Gee… Wonder if he is an immigrant eh Bicks?…


Not sure he fits the right “profile” for you, slippery and eagle though Bicks..

 

[adelaidecrows]

Yeah, I know..
but how far back can we go?.. I was trying to put it in the context/terms of antisemitism in our modern civilisation.. not go as far back as what happened in the dark ages and beyond..

Its hard to argue that the worst form of antisemitism in modern times reared its ugly head in the 1930’s..

Well they didnt do themselves any favours wandering around a desert for 40 years that according to google maps takes 2 days to walk across. So maybe ancient record keeping was just as subject to propaganda as politics is now. or is didnt happen.

I dont think we will ever see anything like the genocide of the NAZIs again at least in the near future anyway.

 

[adelaidecrows]

Mutineer… You will be pleased to know they have a suspect..

Motive probed after suspect ID'ed in Hanukkah car fire

Police are keeping an open mind over the motive of a 47-year-old person of interest alleged to be involved in a fire of a car bearing a Hanukkah sign.

www.thenewdaily.com.au

A man who has a history of breaking into cars.. and lighting fires..

Gee… Wonder if he is an immigrant eh Bicks?…

View attachment 2501952
Not sure he fits the right “profile” for you, slippery and eagle though Bicks..

At some point its not a hate crime its just an arseh*le

 

[Mutineer]

 

[ADL9798]

How exactly were they supposed to stop it, given that the Israeli Govt have been hosing petrol onto the fire continuously for the last 2 years?

The rise in anti-semitism over the last 2 years has NOTHING to do with Albanese's Govt, who have done more to combat it than the LNP did in the previous decade. It has EVERYTHING to do with Israel's ongoing war crimes and genocide in Palestine.

The Australian Jewish community has done absolutely nothing wrong, and certainly don't deserve this. They are, unfortunately, collateral damage in a criminal war being waged by Israel.

No Vader, Mutineer is right.

In fact, I’d like to see the terms of reference for that Royal Commission look into what that incompetent fool Albanese was doing to stop the identical rises in antisemitism in [checks notes] every country on Earth since 2023.

He must be responsible somehow.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Not surprising poll results.

48% want a royal commission, 34% undecided, which means 18% against.

Most want tougher action on hate speech, so will be interesting to see whether this gets bipartisan support.

New poll shows Aussies support tough changes after Bondi Beach terror attack

www.9news.com.au

 

[Mutineer]

No Vader, Mutineer is right.

In fact, I’d like to see the terms of reference for that Royal Commission look into what that incompetent fool Albanese was doing to stop the identical rises in antisemitism in [checks notes] every country on Earth since 2023.

He must be responsible somehow.

View attachment 2501967
View attachment 2501960
View attachment 2501963

Don't tag me. I have no interest in your leftism rants, none whatsoever.

I couldn't give a flying **** what is happening elsewhere.

 

[Mutineer]

 

[Mutineer]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/response-to-bondi-terror-attack-proves-we-need-a-new-organisation-australians-for-calm-david-penberthy/news-story/3870155775f7d6469a41c6041eb413db

Response to Bondi terror attack proves we need a new organisation Australians For Calm | David Penberthy​

The fallout from the horrific Bondi terror attack highlights one thing in particular, David Penberthy says, and he has an answer he feels almost everyone in Australia would get behind.

This is my last column for the year and to be honest I don’t really feel like writing anything much at all.
I don’t feel like trying to write anything poignant or profound. Critics might say that I have never done that anyway so why go breaking the habit of a lifetime.

I sure as hell don’t feel like writing another column about Bondi. I don’t even want to think about it. It makes me feel sick.

Two weeks on it still feels impossible to imagine that anything this horrible ever happened in Australia. We are not the country we were.

It is enraging that all the warning signs leading up to this were so shamefully ignored.

It is confounding that so many of the responses to this outrage are also the wrong responses or deliberate distractions.

Like a blitz on gun ownership which will affect people who shoot pigs. Leaving the illegal guns in the hands of pigs who dream of shooting Jews.

Damn. This is turning into a column about Bondi.

There’s more than a couple of people who have had a shocker in their post-Bondi analysis. Wayne Swan and Laura Tingle, for example.
And again, in keeping with the emotional exhaustion generated by this tragedy, I am not going to waste my breath labouring the obvious about Josh Lees, the Sydney-based Palestinian protest leader whose immediate response to the racist murder of 15 civilians was to threaten the NSW government with court action defending his “right” to give everyone the shits with his ratbag protests.

What I do want to do with this column is elevate and applaud two people from the left of politics who with their blunt commentary have shown others on their side what should definitely be the way.

These two men come from an unlikely location – the left of politics in Victoria, the state which historically has punched above its weight in the monotonous and boisterous protest department.
So much so that on the eve of an election Victorian Premier Jacinta Allen has finally declared that she will no longer tolerate the city of Melbourne being locked down by indulgent protesters, and no longer allow the kind of hate speech that has marred these all too frequent occasions.

Better late than never, I suppose. But good on her all the same.

This week though, it was decreed by some on the left in Victoria that there had to be an urgent response to the Bondi massacre – in the form of more of these protests.

A bunch of pro-Palestinian activists insisted that they would not be cowed or silenced by something as trifling as the murder of 15 civilians.

They wanted to head back to Spring St as a matter of urgency and return to their important work shouting their river to the sea malarkey.
The response from two key union figures in Victoria to this proposition was brilliant.

It was expressed in such earthy language that it left no-one in any doubt as to its intent.

Health Services Union national secretary Gerard Hayes said on Monday that these protests – which had enjoyed union support since the October 7 attacks – should now be put on hold.

“Have some f**king decency, quite frankly,” Mr Hayes told The Australian.

“Seriously, there are 15 people who have been killed.

“There are 40 people who have been put in hospital. It’s obscene to continue to protest at this point in time.”

Hear hear to that.

Hayes was backed by Victorian Trades Hall Council secretary Luke Hilakari who called for an indefinite pause to the protests.
“Understand there are a whole lot of people mourning, there are a whole lot of Australians that are scared and just let them have those feelings and have that space,” Mr Hilakari said.

“They’ve made all the points they need to make about Gaza. There’s a community in deep pain so they just need to back off.”

Have some f**king decency. What a line. What a rule to live by.

This is the right response to what our nation has just endured. It is the right response to the fact that every Australian of Jewish ancestry and identity is now dealing with crippling anxiety on account of wondering if it’s safe to leave the house.

It is how we should all respond.

Not by suggesting, Wayne, that the really unpleasant feature of the massacre of 15 Jews was that people started booing the Prime Minister.

Former Labor deputy prime minister and treasurer Wayne Swan. Picture: NewsWire/Martin Ollman

ABC journalist Laura Tingle. Picture: ABC
Not by suggesting, Laura, that this all had nothing to do with religion, when its perpetrators gave us a pretty big hint by committing this outrage on behalf of an outfit called Islamic State.

And to Josh, and all his other callous comrades, not by whacking on about your God-given right to protest as you see fit, when two years of your vile sloganeering, your shutting down of our cities, your harassment of students on campuses who are simply trying to learn, created the very conditions that led to what happened in Bondi two Sundays ago.

We need a new organisation in this country. Australians For Calm. Australians who aren’t into shouting, arguing, chanting. Australians who aren’t into lying on the road every Friday lunch time with their pathetic homemade placard of a Star of David turned into a Swastika.

 

[Mutineer]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/sally-curtain-tolerance-has-been-replaced-with-terror-kindness-with-evil-compassion-with-hate/news-story/8ba80add55de1e7ffe2ce0127d85efef

Sally Curtain: Tolerance has been replaced with terror. Kindness with evil. Compassion with hate​

Melbourne’s strength has always been that we are diverse, tolerant and caring. That we can celebrate difference with respect, kindness and compassion. This has been missing in our city streets since October 7.


Don't miss out on the headlines from Opinion. Followed categories will be added to My News.
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Over the past couple of years, many within our business community have felt a quiet but unmistakeable shift – a heaviness that is difficult to articulate, yet impossible to ignore.
Weeks of protests that paralysed parts of our CBD.
The targeting of Jewish-owned restaurants and businesses – places built not just with capital, but with heart, culture and courage. And now, the terror attack in Bondi.
For too many business owners, particularly those from minority backgrounds, these events have not felt distant or abstract. They have felt deeply personal. They have felt threatening. And they have shaken a sense of safety that is fundamental to participating fully in public life.
Australia’s business community is one of the most diverse in the world. Migrants, refugees, first-generation Australians, people of different faiths, cultures, languages and identities have shaped our high streets, powered our innovation economy and shaped our global reputation. Their stories are woven into the fabric of our cities and regions.

When that sense of safety is undermined, the consequences extend far beyond individual businesses.

The recent protests that disrupted CBD trading did more than interrupt commerce. They created an environment of unpredictability and unease for workers, customers and owners alike. For some, especially those whose identities have become politicised or targeted, opening the doors each morning has required a new level of courage. And when Jewish-owned businesses are vandalised or attacked – not for what they do, but for who they are – it sends a chilling message well beyond a single street or suburb.

It tells other minority business owners: You could be next.

Melbourne’s strength has always been that we are diverse, tolerant and caring. That we can celebrate difference with respect, kindness and compassion. This has been missing in our city streets since October 7.
Tolerance replaced with terror. Kindness with evil. Compassion with hate. The toll on our community and our social fabric cannot be measured.

But the economic cost is undeniable – tens of millions of dollars in lost trade, and more than $25m borne by Victorian taxpayers. Over the past two years, the Victorian Chamber has consistently called for fundamental change to support social cohesion and business confidence in our city.

Practical policy measures, such as designated protest zones away from the heart of the CBD, strike a necessary balance between the democratic right to protest and the pragmatic need to keep the city functioning. Cities around the world have implemented these measures to great effect. We have been clear and unequivocal in denouncing anti-Semitism in all its forms. We have worked closely with the Israeli Chamber of Commerce, offering support to businesses targeted by hate-based attacks.

This is not political – it is principled.
It is built when leaders speak clearly and consistently against hate in all its forms. It is built when we refuse to excuse intimidation as “part of the times”. It is built when safety, dignity and inclusion are treated as economic imperatives, not ideological debates.

This is particularly important in our universities. They are a critical source of our future talent pipeline – places where tomorrow’s entrepreneurs, engineers, health professionals and leaders are shaped. Universities have always been centres of higher learning and open inquiry, not radicalisation or intimidation.

When campuses become environments where hate is tolerated or fear silences voices, we risk undermining not only social cohesion, but the future workforce our economy depends on.

It is also essential to draw a clear line between freedom of speech and hate speech. These two concepts have become dangerously conflated.

Freedom of speech is a cornerstone of a democratic society.

Hate speech – speech that intimidates, dehumanises or incites violence against others – is not. Business understands this distinction intuitively. Debate strengthens ideas. Hate corrodes trust.

 

[Eagleboy2011]

It took her a while to read the room. It must have deaply hurt to issue any sort of apology.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/sally-curtain-tolerance-has-been-replaced-with-terror-kindness-with-evil-compassion-with-hate/news-story/8ba80add55de1e7ffe2ce0127d85efef

Sally Curtain: Tolerance has been replaced with terror. Kindness with evil. Compassion with hate​

Melbourne’s strength has always been that we are diverse, tolerant and caring. That we can celebrate difference with respect, kindness and compassion. This has been missing in our city streets since October 7.


Don't miss out on the headlines from Opinion. Followed categories will be added to My News.
follow
Over the past couple of years, many within our business community have felt a quiet but unmistakeable shift – a heaviness that is difficult to articulate, yet impossible to ignore.
Weeks of protests that paralysed parts of our CBD.
The targeting of Jewish-owned restaurants and businesses – places built not just with capital, but with heart, culture and courage. And now, the terror attack in Bondi.
For too many business owners, particularly those from minority backgrounds, these events have not felt distant or abstract. They have felt deeply personal. They have felt threatening. And they have shaken a sense of safety that is fundamental to participating fully in public life.
Australia’s business community is one of the most diverse in the world. Migrants, refugees, first-generation Australians, people of different faiths, cultures, languages and identities have shaped our high streets, powered our innovation economy and shaped our global reputation. Their stories are woven into the fabric of our cities and regions.

When that sense of safety is undermined, the consequences extend far beyond individual businesses.

The recent protests that disrupted CBD trading did more than interrupt commerce. They created an environment of unpredictability and unease for workers, customers and owners alike. For some, especially those whose identities have become politicised or targeted, opening the doors each morning has required a new level of courage. And when Jewish-owned businesses are vandalised or attacked – not for what they do, but for who they are – it sends a chilling message well beyond a single street or suburb.

It tells other minority business owners: You could be next.

Melbourne’s strength has always been that we are diverse, tolerant and caring. That we can celebrate difference with respect, kindness and compassion. This has been missing in our city streets since October 7.
Tolerance replaced with terror. Kindness with evil. Compassion with hate. The toll on our community and our social fabric cannot be measured.

But the economic cost is undeniable – tens of millions of dollars in lost trade, and more than $25m borne by Victorian taxpayers. Over the past two years, the Victorian Chamber has consistently called for fundamental change to support social cohesion and business confidence in our city.

Practical policy measures, such as designated protest zones away from the heart of the CBD, strike a necessary balance between the democratic right to protest and the pragmatic need to keep the city functioning. Cities around the world have implemented these measures to great effect. We have been clear and unequivocal in denouncing anti-Semitism in all its forms. We have worked closely with the Israeli Chamber of Commerce, offering support to businesses targeted by hate-based attacks.

This is not political – it is principled.
It is built when leaders speak clearly and consistently against hate in all its forms. It is built when we refuse to excuse intimidation as “part of the times”. It is built when safety, dignity and inclusion are treated as economic imperatives, not ideological debates.

This is particularly important in our universities. They are a critical source of our future talent pipeline – places where tomorrow’s entrepreneurs, engineers, health professionals and leaders are shaped. Universities have always been centres of higher learning and open inquiry, not radicalisation or intimidation.

When campuses become environments where hate is tolerated or fear silences voices, we risk undermining not only social cohesion, but the future workforce our economy depends on.

It is also essential to draw a clear line between freedom of speech and hate speech. These two concepts have become dangerously conflated.

Freedom of speech is a cornerstone of a democratic society.

Hate speech – speech that intimidates, dehumanises or incites violence against others – is not. Business understands this distinction intuitively. Debate strengthens ideas. Hate corrodes trust.

The last few paragraphs are the key.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Don't tag me. I have no interest in your leftism rants, none whatsoever.

I couldn't give a flying **** what is happening elsewhere.

Oh, don't worry Mutineer.. we all know that you couldn't give a flying fxxk about antisemitism.. and the fact that you have actually written this in a comment just provides even more confirmation.

You couldn't give a damn about antisemitism elsewhere just as, deep down, you don't really care about it here in Australia.. you have just seen it as another opportunity to bash Labor.

If it was an LNP PM and government in power federally right now you wouldn’t being saying boo. You wouldnt be blaming the PM, the government and you wouldnt be demanding an RC.

You are the most rank political opportunist on here.

 

[Mutineer]

Oh, don't worry Mutineer.. we all know that you couldn't give a flying fxxk about antisemitism.. and the fact that you have actually written this in a comment just provides even more confirmation.

You couldn't give a damn about antisemitism elsewhere just as, deep down, you don't really care about it here in Australia.. you have just seen it as another opportunity to bash Labor.

If it was an LNP PM and government in power federally right now you wouldn’t being saying boo. You wouldnt be blaming the PM, the government and you wouldnt be demanding an RC.

You are the most rank political opportunist on here.

Says the Labor luvvie that defends everything ALP.

 

[Mutineer]

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

How many guns are needed for an Olympic shooter or are we talking about the type of the gun?

Surely 4 guns is plenty enough for an Olympic shooter?

I don't understand what his issue is...

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Proposed hate speech laws appear to make sense.

What changes are planned to Australia’s hate speech laws and how will they work?

The Albanese government’s five-point plan includes a new aggravated hate speech offence and powers to reject visas – but the details are scant

www.theguardian.com

 

[n4sir]

How many guns are needed for an Olympic shooter or are we talking about the type of the gun?

Surely 4 guns is plenty enough for an Olympic shooter?

I don't undertake what his issue is...

One of the reasons I have heard from friend who is a multiple gun owner (for sports shooting) is that it's so difficult to get parts in since the post Port Arthur gun laws came in (and even worse post-Covid) that you need something like six guns just to provide spare parts for 2-3 of them.

 

[Peter Doherty]

Yeah, I know..
but how far back can we go?.. I was trying to put it in the context/terms of antisemitism in our modern civilisation.. not go as far back as what happened in the dark ages and beyond..

Its hard to argue that the worst form of antisemitism in modern times reared its ugly head in the 1930’s..

Just seems like you're almost doing what you're accusing Mutineer of doing.

How far do you go back? A lot further than the 1930s.

Islamists have a 7th century view of the world, that flavour of antisemitism you need to start there. Christianity/Roman antisemitism goes back hundreds of years before then.

Then you have the old testament before all of that.

You might think this is crazy, bringing up things so old. In some parts of the world they really do view the world like this.

The Bondi attack was ISIS, they definitely view the world like this.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

One of the reasons I have heard from friend who is a multiple gun owner (for sports shooting) is that it's so difficult to get parts in since the post Port Arthur gun laws came in (and even worse post-Covid) that you need something like six guns just to provide spare parts for 2-3 of them.

Perhaps we need to ensure that gun shops have enough spare parts.

If owners are restricted to 4 guns, there should be a bigger market for parts.

 

[Bearded Clam]

Just seems like you're almost doing what you're accusing Mutineer of doing.

How far do you go back? A lot further than the 1930s.

Islamists have a 7th century view of the world, that flavour of antisemitism you need to start there. Christianity/Roman antisemitism goes back hundreds of years before then.

Then you have the old testament before all of that.

You might think this is crazy, bringing up things so old. In some parts of the world they really do view the world like this.

The Bondi attack was ISIS, they definitely view the world like this.

Nowhere did I say it was crazy bring up the 7th century.. i’m with you there..
I know this conflict goes back many years.

But really.. most of the current conversations we have over the sunject are in the context of our more modern times. And ultimately both sides in the fight have acted deplorably..

 

[kirky]

Oh, don't worry Mutineer.. we all know that you couldn't give a flying fxxk about antisemitism.. and the fact that you have actually written this in a comment just provides even more confirmation.

You couldn't give a damn about antisemitism elsewhere just as, deep down, you don't really care about it here in Australia.. you have just seen it as another opportunity to bash Labor.

If it was an LNP PM and government in power federally right now you wouldn’t being saying boo. You wouldnt be blaming the PM, the government and you wouldnt be demanding an RC.

You are the most rank political opportunist on here.

For him, it is all political as does the party he follows so religiously.

Where was the non-partisan politics like there was after Port Arthur, Lindt Cafe, the bushfires etc. There was none and to add insult to injury you had an entourage of past Liberal PMs and a failed Federal Treasurer putting their two bobs worth in as well.