Coach Justin Longmuir Pt 2

[ignoramus]

Sorry, I mean the Freo BF board! Reddit is way, way, way lower volume than here.

 

[chaosball32]

Reddit is also good at punishing super shit low effort tantrums that pop up whenever we lose.

In fact I’ve never really understood the idea that the Freo reddit as having “toxic positivity”. If you present criticism without substance, you’ll be downvoted sure. But I would argue BF would be a far better discussion board if overly emotional positive/negative post were contained within their own thread.

The Freo reddit has plenty of criticism. At least half of the top rated comment threads on the last game are criticisms of player performance, selection etc.

Lol no. I can be pretty critical but I usually back up my arguments with facts, statistics and whatnot.

Granted I haven’t been on there since last year, I don’t use reddit much so maybe it’s different now but from my experience if you say anything that can be even slightly perceived in a negative light there’s a good chance you’ll be downvoted by the mob regardless, but maybe that’s more of indictment on reddit itself. Feels like an echo chamber at times. Not going to name names as they might be on here but there are a few snarky users on there who seem to take every criticism of the club as a personal slight and are very quick to jump to petty insults.

Unless it’s overtly and deliberately offensive I don’t like censorship. Bigfooty moderators are much better at letting all types and all opinions co-exist. The emotional highs and lows are part of being a sports fan, especially a club like Freo who are constantly bouncing between high and low (more lows then highs unfortunately).

 

[The Feeder Club]

I've contacted Amnesty International to alert them to the multiple cases of people being held captive here, forced to read and post on the Fremantle bigfooty board against their will. Help should be on the way

 

[ubiquitous226]

One of our tenets on the BigFooty Freo board is to try and avoid censorship, and one of the things that I think defines it in a good way (mostly).

I do however personally agree that relentless venting or nauseating sycophancy for the club do little for adding to the conversation.
It's neither the criticism nor the optimism that actually gets to me, it's the inability to consider other views or when there's complete confirmation bias.

On JLo, I've seen enough from other clubs to know that good recruitment isn't sufficient to build a good list, the players have to be nurtured and developed. There are some special players that will find a way to become something great regardless, but for everyone else there's a fair bit of luck in terms of the team and environment they end up in.

Interestingly one of the challenges he and the coaching team have is our defence is not humming, some of that is trying to be more offensive and some may be due to personnel challenges, but either way it doesn't feel like we have a top shelf defence at the moment in my view - which may be ok if it comes with broader benefits.

 

[ubiquitous226]

The Collingwood team McRae took over had played in a GF in 2018 and were still a talent side who were not performing as well as they could have under Buckley. Given the advantages of being Collingwood and playing the majority of their games at the MCG, McRae had a far easier introduction coaching in the AFL than JLo.

JLo took over a struggling Freo side and had a rough introduction to coaching during the covid era. JLo has done a very good job of moulding the talent that is now at the club into a competitive team. Good but not quite good enough so far.

The question is can he take the next step and cross that threshold that makes Freo good enough to genuinely compete at the pointy end of the season?

We will find out by September this year. If we don't get better results than 2025 then his position needs to be under pressure.

Great post.

I feel like I'm pretty balanced on JLo but I will go a step further and say if we don't get better results or trajectory than this year, then unless it's due to large factors outside of his control, then the club should be actively considering other options.
If we need a finishing coach then so be it - time to aim for a flag.

 

[swanny1234]

Lol no. I can be pretty critical but I usually back up my arguments with facts, statistics and whatnot.

Granted I haven’t been on there since last year, I don’t use reddit much so maybe it’s different now but from my experience if you say anything that can be even slightly perceived in a negative light there’s a good chance you’ll be downvoted by the mob regardless, but maybe that’s more of indictment on reddit itself. Feels like an echo chamber at times. Not going to name names as they might be on here but there are a few snarky users on there who seem to take every criticism of the club as a personal slight and are very quick to jump to petty insults.

Unless it’s overtly and deliberately offensive I don’t like censorship. Bigfooty moderators are much better at letting all types and all opinions co-exist. The emotional highs and lows are part of being a sports fan, especially a club like Freo who are constantly bouncing between high and low (more lows then highs unfortunately).

I think everyone here, regardless of their stance on the coach, does ultimately want to see Freo do well.

I do get annoyed when people accuse you of not being a real fan when you’re negative, being a supporter isn’t blindly being positive even when you can see things aren’t going well.

 

[estibador]

I just caught the first part of Wagner's SportFM slot and I'm at least heartened to hear that in the review they identified they cost themselves the game by going into their shells and playing conservatively instead of continuing to take the game on like they had earlier.

There's a fair argument that JLo might not be a good enough coach to instil the mentality and confidence in the group to keep taking the game on, but I don't think those juvenile posts you see sometimes that 'JLo told them to stop taking the game on' have any merit or add anything to the discussion.

 

[thistimeforsure]

Fair take. I think a lot of JL hate depends on the question being asked.

Do I think he's done good things for the club? Yes.

Do I think he wins us a flag? Probably not

 

[ignoramus]

I just caught the first part of Wagner's SportFM slot and I'm at least heartened to hear that in the review they identified they cost themselves the game by going into their shells and playing conservatively instead of continuing to take the game on like they had earlier.

There's a fair argument that JLo might not be a good enough coach to instil the mentality and confidence in the group to keep taking the game on, but I don't think those juvenile posts you see sometimes that 'JLo told them to stop taking the game on' have any merit or add anything to the discussion.

You’re on field, absolutely knackered, 12pts up and 20mins game time left. There’s tight but routine (under training conditions) 25m option that opens up play but your legs are numb and cramping so much you’re not sure you’ll get boot to ball let alone nail the kick. A turnover means sprinting on those numb cramping legs in a likely fruitless endeavor to close down options or win the ball back. Alternatively, there’s two marking talls 50m down the line, where a mark or a stoppage seems more than a 50/50 proposition, and even if it’s a turnover, the ball is that much further away to give you a chance of holding up play…

I’m sure there’s any number of helpful suggestions that we could make: he should toughen up; he’s getting paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to do what he loves; he’s a professional and should be working on those skills; he’s (or I’m) just making excuses; etc. etc.

It’s interesting to think about though and to try to understand what might be going on

 

[thistimeforsure]

I haven’t got a brick in each hand about sacking JLo like I did at the end of the Lyon era , but I do think we’d be better off without him now

He’s never got us playing what I consider the right sort of footy to do well in big cut throat games but that’s just my personal opinion

You just can’t be bottom 4 for pressure i50 and expect to get anywhere when the heats turned up to 11 …. you just can’t

 

[chaosball32]

We’ve glossed over the negatives but there is one positive to come out of the weekend.

Last year we were 12th for scores per inside 50, in large part due to being 13th for tackles inside 50 and 18th for marks per inside 50. And that’s been a big concern for me under Longmuir, we usually create enough chances but waste a lot of them for various reasons.

Obviously it’s a very small sample size with teams having only played 1 or 2 games, but so far we are 1st for scores per inside 50 by a significant margin. We are scoring @ 65%, with 2nd place being the Bulldogs @ 57%.

• In the final last year we scored 19 times from 59 entries
• On the weekend we scored 30 times from 46 entries

Now obviously we aren’t going to score 65% of the time we go inside 50 every week (last year no team scored @ 50%) but with the way the game is trending we need to be more efficient and this weekend was a good start.

 

[Cesoir]

I think everyone here, regardless of their stance on the coach, does ultimately want to see Freo do well.

I do get annoyed when people accuse you of not being a real fan when you’re negative, being a supporter isn’t blindly being positive even when you can see things aren’t going well.

Fair point swanny1234. I must confess I used to get quite annoyed by your posting but I have come to realise it's just your way of venting your frustration.

For me, and I only speak for myself, it's not the negativity that's annoying, it's the repetition of the same points over and over and in multiple threads. It's like "yeah, we get it, you don't like Longmuir". I also feel the same about people beating us over the head with positive opinions.

Anyway, you keep doing you, I generally enjoy the diversity of views and when they are belaboured I tend to just ignore them now.

 

[Kapow!!!]

No matter what you may say about the quality of the current "JLo" bashing weariness I will say this: This board is a damned sight better to be on than final 3 years under Lyon. This was a truly hopeless place devoid of any real fun. Now, even though there's repetitiveness, there's depth and nuance and still a genuine feel of excitement if a little bit impatient.

 

[oldgoat]

The actual problem is who is that person that is the best?

RTB?

 

[PrancingPony]

No matter what you may say about the quality of the current "JLo" bashing weariness I will say this: This board is a damned sight better to be on than final 3 years under Lyon. This was a truly hopeless place devoid of any real fun. Now, even though there's repetitiveness, there's depth and nuance and still a genuine feel of excitement if a little bit impatient.

The club has come a long way from debating whether any of Shane Kersten, Scott Jones, Stefan Giro and Brandon Matera should be in the side.

 

[chaosball32]

Really annoys me how weak clubs are on this, we’re here to win flags not make up the numbers. In the premier league they go too far the other way - Ange got sacked after a bloody trophy!

JL actually reminds me of Ruben Amorim: against all better judgement stubbornly sticking to his players and his gameplan despite having no success with said players or said gameplan.

It took United one year to sack Amorim, 7 years and counting for Freo and JL…

 

[swanny1234]

JL actually reminds me of Ruben Amorim: against all better judgement stubbornly sticking to his players and his gameplan despite having no success with said players or said gameplan.

It took United one year to sack Amorim, 7 years and counting for Freo and JL…

Actually quite an astute comparison. United doing a hell of a lot of better with Carrick.

 

[The Lobbster]

JL actually reminds me of Ruben Amorim: against all better judgement stubbornly sticking to his players and his gameplan despite having no success with said players or said gameplan.

It took United one year to sack Amorim, 7 years and counting for Freo and JL…

Amorim also had like a 30% win rate despite spending almost 3 times as much as other teams so not sure the comparison really stands up to much scrutiny

 

[Kapow!!!]

Amorim also had like a 30% win rate despite spending almost 3 times as much as other teams so not sure the comparison really stands up to much scrutiny

Also the EPL having just the worst culture around managers/coaches often sacking within a year and never giving coaches a chance to settle and develop...I understand the angst (and share the hard earned impatience) but that's a terrible analogy as that particular competition/sport is not really comparable with AFL

 

[benfica]

JL actually reminds me of Ruben Amorim: against all better judgement stubbornly sticking to his players and his gameplan despite having no success with said players or said gameplan.

It took United one year to sack Amorim, 7 years and counting for Freo and JL…

Lol don't ever compare the two Ruben actually won as a player and coach he is a winner

 

[poshman]

Spot on. I've ummed and ahh'd about doing some long diatribe on peoples opinions of JL but I dont know how to do it without coming across condescending and I feel like I'm a big enough of a condescending w***er on here anyway. I go between finding it annoying, tiring and just flat out laughable how a loss = JL is a fraud, win = I'll bite my tongue till we lose next. Like, why cant we apply any sort of deeper review to the game outside lose = coach sucks. Do you guys that keep blaming the same people after every loss regardless of what happened not realise how silly you look?

My completely unsolicited advice to people who maybe on self reflection have found that too much of their mood on the weekend is dictated by how Freo go (which seems to be the case for a few), that watching the game on delay with a couple of live checks on the score has helped me a lot. Side thought, for some reason, I get a lot shittier watching a bad performance on TV than I do at the ground. Not sure why that is.

I also find you get a much less biased opinion on how players played because you dont ride every mistake as if they've just shot your mother in front of your eyes.

I agree with a lot of this and would ask a question. He has been here for 7 years. What do you hold him responsible for and what would make you say you want him gone?

 

[poshman]

One of our tenets on the BigFooty Freo board is to try and avoid censorship, and one of the things that I think defines it in a good way (mostly).

I do however personally agree that relentless venting or nauseating sycophancy for the club do little for adding to the conversation.
It's neither the criticism nor the optimism that actually gets to me, it's the inability to consider other views or when there's complete confirmation bias.

On JLo, I've seen enough from other clubs to know that good recruitment isn't sufficient to build a good list, the players have to be nurtured and developed. There are some special players that will find a way to become something great regardless, but for everyone else there's a fair bit of luck in terms of the team and environment they end up in.

Interestingly one of the challenges he and the coaching team have is our defence is not humming, some of that is trying to be more offensive and some may be due to personnel challenges, but either way it doesn't feel like we have a top shelf defence at the moment in my view - which may be ok if it comes with broader benefits.

We don't have a top shelf defence. Our best KPD is injured and the back ups are shaky. Our captain is no longer played as the lock down KPD. Chapman has confidence issues. Ryan isn't fit and we are trying to get McVee and Walker to feel comfortable.

We will be pretty good down there, however, our KPD list would be in the bottom five in the league. We need improvement from Davies or Draper in a big way. I doubt they will get the games this year to provide it.

 

[swanny1234]

Also the EPL having just the worst culture around managers/coaches often sacking within a year and never giving coaches a chance to settle and develop...I understand the angst (and share the hard earned impatience) but that's a terrible analogy as that particular competition/sport is not really comparable with AFL

The AFL goes too far the other way… clubs give coaches way too much leeway for poor performances. Even JLo aside, how the hell is Voss still in a job?

I agree the EPL is too ruthless, somewhere in the middle would be best.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I agree with a lot of this and would ask a question. He has been here for 7 years. What do you hold him responsible for and what would make you say you want him gone?

The rant is more about just saying "sack JL" after every loss. No finals and I expect him gone. Id be fine if the club wanted him gone for anything short of a prelim. I think he can coach, not convinced he can coach well enough

I think playing so many clearly underdone players last week is something he (and match committee are responsible for).

 

[Duz97]

I just don’t get the Sean Darcy

4

Sean Darcy

Age

27

Ht

203cm

Wt

111kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

3.4

1star

HB

6.6

4star

CL

2.4

4star

HO

28.8

5star

D

6.8

1star

K

2.0

1star

HB

4.8

3star

CL

1.8

4star

HO

20.3

5star

D

11.4

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

6.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

HO

32.0

5star

stubbornness about him. Would love to know the reason he has to play him underdone when cox could have an influence on game day. Its not even like Darcy is in our top 10-15 best players