Mandatory detention of refugees (Stop the boats. 5k a head. Part 2)

[Lebbo73]

Good article by KM.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...tr4dhDd1gT2s116EzElTIvmeSkpircs_eNQ80u23Sm84Q

The Guardian: always pulling at the heartstrings of those who only give a shit through hollow words on the internet.

 

[Chief]

View attachment 618660

Boat signalling is the new virtue signalling?

I like it.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

The story so far...
He claims of rampaging Sudanese gangs in Brisbane, despite being categorically, and correctly, refuted by the Police Commissioner and Premier. He lives in Brisbane and he knows better.
Claims that Fraser Anning lived just up the road from him. Despite Gladstone being ~500km from the Brisbane CBD.
Suddenly claims in another thread that he saw active service in Afghanistan which gave him authority to, yet again, castigate, brown people.
He is suddenly one of the very few people to have 'served' on Manus Island and claims the Qld Coroner is either a liar, a left wing refugee sympathist or basically corrupt.
There is a pattern forming here and this is either one of the worlds greatest coincidences, or he's a pathological liar.

Yep...most can be either proved/dis-proved easily though, particularly overseas service stuff i.e. Corps, Unit, When, Who was CO, Mission etc

 

[Baltimore Jack]

1. The boats never stopped. Dutton just stopped reporting them
2. Ergo, the smuggler business model is current and active
3. Since there's a cloak of secrecy, we have no idea how many have died through illegal internment
4. Punishing ill or sick refugees to create a political point of difference says all that needs to said about the LNP

 

[Chief]

The story so far...
He claims of rampaging Sudanese gangs in Brisbane, despite being categorically, and correctly, refuted by the Police Commissioner and Premier. He lives in Brisbane and he knows better.
Claims that Fraser Anning lived just up the road from him. Despite Gladstone being ~500km from the Brisbane CBD.
Suddenly claims in another thread that he saw active service in Afghanistan which gave him authority to, yet again, castigate brown people.
He is suddenly one of the very few people to have 'served' on Manus Island and claims the Qld Coroner is either a liar, a left wing refugee sympathist or basically corrupt.
There is a pattern forming here and this is either one of the worlds greatest coincidences, or he's a pathological liar.

Be kind. He’s just a fantasist.

 

[Carn The Berries]

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Actually I think a more appropriate reflection of yesterday's events is that the behaviour of both sides of politics (and the cross-benchers) was totally unbecoming of elected members, even if the underlying intention was good. The Speaker of the House came out of the whole affair as the only person who was even attempting to act in a bi-partisan and ethical way.

Not sure how many people here actually watched or listened to the sequence of events last night surrounding the constitutional question regarding this proposed legislation but in my opinion both sides are equally culpable for politicising what is a very sensitive issue (for a number of different reasons that I won't begin to address here).

The Government should be ashamed of itself for not only sitting on the advice of the Solicitor General until the last possible moment but then requesting the Speaker to not share this information with the House. The only motive for this seems to have been to try and stifle debate on the matter rather than actually addressing the concerns raised in the SC's advice.

Having said that the fundamental issues that were raised seem on face value to have significant merit. The ALP and cross-benchers effectively confirmed this by passing the additional amendments in the house (the cliff note version of the changes is that the new roles being created are now voluntary and not paid, effectively circumventing the original issue that the Senate can't pass amendments to legislation that would incur additional cost to the Commonwealth) however this admission means that they should not have voted to have the amendments considered in the first place and in effect voted to ignore a provision of the constitution (it seems an anomaly to me but this particular section can be ruled on by the House itself and not the High Court). It's also inconceivable to me that the ALP wouldn't have known the possible ramifications of the Senate's actions last year even before the SC opined on it meaning that they deliberately supported amendments that, at the very least, could have contravened the constitution.

There is a fundamental separation of duties issue here that will now be lost in the noise emanating from both sides in the fallout from yesterday. Christopher Pyne made a very salient point about this opening the way for future oppositions in minority governments to pull the same kind of BS stunt that the ALP did to try and work around the intent of the constitution.

Shameful all around, but I'm not sure many people care that much, which in itself is shameful too...

 

[Present Not Past]

View attachment 618666

Good move by Labor right before an election to have the support of three independents up your sleeve in case the result is tight.

 

[Gough]

Actually I think a more appropriate reflection of yesterday's events is that the behaviour of both sides of politics (and the cross-benchers) was totally unbecoming of elected members, even if the underlying intention was good. The Speaker of the House came out of the whole affair as the only person who was even attempting to act in a bi-partisan and ethical way.

Not sure how many people here actually watched or listened to the sequence of events last night surrounding the constitutional question regarding this proposed legislation but in my opinion both sides are equally culpable for politicising what is a very sensitive issue (for a number of different reasons that I won't begin to address here).

The Government should be ashamed of itself for not only sitting on the advice of the Solicitor General until the last possible moment but then requesting the Speaker to not share this information with the House. The only motive for this seems to have been to try and stifle debate on the matter rather than actually addressing the concerns raised in the SC's advice.

Having said that the fundamental issues that were raised seem on face value to have significant merit. The ALP and cross-benchers effectively confirmed this by passing the additional amendments in the house (the cliff note version of the changes is that the new roles being created are now voluntary and not paid, effectively circumventing the original issue that the Senate can't pass amendments to legislation that would incur additional cost to the Commonwealth) however this admission means that they should not have voted to have the amendments considered in the first place and in effect voted to ignore a provision of the constitution (it seems an anomaly to me but this particular section can be ruled on by the House itself and not the High Court). It's also inconceivable to me that the ALP wouldn't have known the possible ramifications of the Senate's actions last year even before the SC opined on it meaning that they deliberately supported amendments that, at the very least, could have contravened the constitution.

There is a fundamental separation of duties issue here that will now be lost in the noise emanating from both sides in the fallout from yesterday. Christopher Pyne made a very salient point about this opening the way for future oppositions in minority governments to pull the same kind of BS stunt that the ALP did to try and work around the intent of the constitution.

Shameful all around, but I'm not sure many people care that much, which in itself is shameful too...

Both sides are as bad as each other? You're gunna vote for the Libs at the next election aren't you mate. Try yelling Bill Shorten at the top of your voice for the next three months, the sheltered workshop that supplies the polling for the Liberal Party reckons that's a really good tactic.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Both sides are as bad as each other? You're gunna vote for the Libs at the next election aren't you mate. Try yelling Bill Shorten at the top of your voice for the next three months, the sheltered workshop that supplies the polling for the Liberal Party reckons that's a really good tactic.

In this particular situation (I'm only talking about the constitutional matter, not the underlying issue) yes they are. I don't care what the issue is that is being debated, you can't just decide that the constitution shouldn't apply and try to circumvent it. The proper governance of our political system is a key to our ongoing democracy. You can't just ignore the constitution because it's convenient. At the same time the Libs shouldn't have used this issue to try and wedge the ALP out of proceeding with their amendments.

Every single person in that chamber, with the exception of the speaker, should hang their heads in shame about how this particular issue went down. It's a complete embarrassment.

 

[GuruJane]

See different to what I have been made aware of, very different. Oh so whatever I say, it always begins with belligerent refugees, including women and children? Might have been free but not freely handed out.

Sigh. There were no women and children a/s on Manus, only men.
Research, research, research.

 

[Balls In]

Good move by Labor right before an election to have the support of three independents up your sleeve in case the result is tight.

True and people need to realise that a vote for labor is a vote for the Greens and independents.

 

[Maggie5]

Important to note that Manus only has male asylum seekers. I’m not talking about women or children. Toiletries were freely handed out. They had access to get them every single day.

I have come across decent guys in our offshore processing centres. In fact the guys on the beach who’s photo I posted mocking them are quite good and I spent a lot of time getting to know them. I bonded with quite a few. On multiple occasions when guys were taking the 20K to go back home, I was approached by them to give my email and facebook to them to stay in touch and continue the friendship we had. I politely declined.

I enjoyed the military however had achieved everything I wanted to by the time I left. A great job opportunity popped up and I decided to take it.

My understanding was that there were still females/children on Manus in 2013, then they were transferred?
Given Reza died in Feb 2014, thought you may have been there in 2013.
If you only started in 2014, didn't take you long to have such a derogatory opinion of him.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

True and people need to realise that a vote for labor is a vote for the Greens and independents.

See, you actually think this is a bad thing, you really don't get it, do you?

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

True and people need to realise that a vote for labor is a vote for the Greens and independents.

So an elected ALP is a mandate for greens policies?

Nice.

 

[Carn The Berries]

See, you actually think this is a bad thing, you really don't get it, do you?

If the Greens and/or an independent(s) have the balance of power (or become part of a minority government) then I'd say it isn't a great thing... You'd be handing power to a party that is getting ~10% of votes (in the case of the Greens, even less if you're talking independents)... This isn't a desired outcome regardless of which part holds the most seats.

Unfortunately there is no way to avoid the possibility of minority government in our political system, but I am sick to death of minority parties getting more power than they deserve and using it to wedge the major parties. If the party with the most seats has taken a policy to an election they have a mandate... Just let them do what the largest % of the population wants them to (even if that % isn't a clear majority).

 

[Moody Blue]

Here is the advertising for people smugglers that potato head thinks will be appealing.

Go to Australia, now you may not get far because of the turnbacks or there is a high likelihood you may drown at sea but if neither of things happen, you will be sent to Nauru where you are likely to be there for 5 years or more. However if you get seriously ill, they have a dozen doctors who can treat you but if you are close to dying then you may be able to get treatment in Australia.

I can just see people lining up for this cruise, who wouldn't?

Seems to me either turnbacks is working or its not. Further I wouldn't be surprised for a few leaks about boats being turned back in the next few weeks, boats that have previously been undisclosed.

Either our borders are secure or they're not, which is it?

When will this dickhead of a government ever learn?

As you say the boats are still coming, so therefore the demand is still there. Australia is the land of milk honey and welfare for life. If they have to spend a couple of years at Nauru, what do they care? They are fed clothed and looked after whilst the lefties lobby for them. They will get to Australia eventually. I noticed how a lot of the asylum seekers that went to the US were complaining it was too hard. How unfortunate.

 

[Gough]

If the Greens and/or an independent(s) have the balance of power (or become part of a minority government) then I'd say it isn't a great thing... You'd be handing power to a party that is getting ~10% of votes (in the case of the Greens, even less if you're talking independents)... This isn't a desired outcome regardless of which part holds the most seats.

Unfortunately there is no way to avoid the possibility of minority government in our political system, but I am sick to death of minority parties getting more power than they deserve and using it to wedge the major parties. If the party with the most seats has taken a policy to an election they have a mandate... Just let them do what the largest % of the population wants them to (even if that % isn't a clear majority).

Nationals get around 2% of the vote and they govern in coalition.

 

[Moody Blue]

If the Greens and/or an independent(s) have the balance of power (or become part of a minority government) then I'd say it isn't a great thing... You'd be handing power to a party that is getting ~10% of votes (in the case of the Greens, even less if you're talking independents)... This isn't a desired outcome regardless of which part holds the most seats.

Unfortunately there is no way to avoid the possibility of minority government in our political system, but I am sick to death of minority parties getting more power than they deserve and using it to wedge the major parties. If the party with the most seats has taken a policy to an election they have a mandate... Just let them do what the largest % of the population wants them to (even if that % isn't a clear majority).

UK have got it right. First past the post gets rid of the minorty lunatics. If the Greens are as relevant as they believe they will win on their own accord and not have to rely on preferences. The Senate needs to go. It is no longer a House of Review, as it was intended.

 

[Carn The Berries]

Nationals get around 2% of the vote and they govern in coalition.

The key there is coalition - which is publicised and acknowledged. If the Greens and ALP had a similar arrangement then all well and good, they don't though.

 

[nut]

Let's wait and see what happens when Labor wins and we tie it in with this.

If stuff all happens then you can crow about it.

We are a country of softcocks led by softcocks and soon to be led by another bunch of softcocks with a leader that people like even less than ScoMo.

We just gave Mokbel ... a dangerous criminal ... medical attention??? He was in detention ... what’s the difference?

 

[Carn The Berries]

If the Greens and/or an independent(s) have the balance of power (or become part of a minority government) then I'd say it isn't a great thing... You'd be handing power to a party that is getting ~10% of votes (in the case of the Greens, even less if you're talking independents)... This isn't a desired outcome regardless of which part holds the most seats.

Unfortunately there is no way to avoid the possibility of minority government in our political system, but I am sick to death of minority parties getting more power than they deserve and using it to wedge the major parties. If the party with the most seats has taken a policy to an election they have a mandate... Just let them do what the largest % of the population wants them to (even if that % isn't a clear majority).

Before I'm accused of being a RWNJ (wouldn't be the first time) this equally applies to ON on the right side of politics. The thought that one of Pauline's crazies could hold the balance of power in either house frightens the life out of me and shouldn't be allowed to happen.

 

[Moody Blue]

The key there is coalition - which is publicised and acknowledged. If the Greens and ALP had a similar arrangement then all well and good, they don't though.

In fact they continue with the farcical pretense that they dislike each other. That is until they get into power and are happy to have a coalition like they did with Gillard.

 

[QuietB]

Morrison - "There are more than 60 medical professionals on Nauru, for 420 people. If that says there is no medical facilities available on Nauru, then that is ridiculous. Tell me another part of this country that has one medical professional for every seven people"

Umm, a hospital

 

[NSWCROW]

MORNING ALL !!!
**** what a great day for Australia yesterday.

 

[Maggie5]

As you say the boats are still coming, so therefore the demand is still there. Australia is the land of milk honey and welfare for life. If they have to spend a couple of years at Nauru, what do they care? They are fed clothed and looked after whilst the lefties lobby for them. They will get to Australia eventually. I noticed how a lot of the asylum seekers that went to the US were complaining it was too hard. How unfortunate.

You use of 'lefties' doesn't really inspire me that this will be a useful exchange but anyway...

So they may be still coming under this government but not landing as they are being turned back. Right?

Why and how will it that change? Either the current system is working or it isn't. The government can't have a little bit each way.

I haven't seen anywhere that the opposition is going to change anything, in fact I think that because of the LNP scare campaign, quite likely will put more money into border security.

5 years in a country that is third world, language and customs different is not my idea of a holiday island. Maybe they should have taken up the Malaysia solution, we could have saved heaps of $$$$$$.

You really should read up on 'welfare' eligibility for refugees, and avoid swallowing spin.