Autopsy Round 3, 2019: Hawthorn defeats North

[MinerBoy]

Is it my imagination or is it the same group of posters always having a collective crack at a player? Same old negative punters, week after week, changing from one player to the next. Carry on, lads.

Hmm, I'm pretty supportive of all our players. I'd be disappointed if this is directed at me. I made a one line comment on Nash amongst a post that addressed the game in general and performance of a number of players which has than been picked up on the Nash comment and manifested. And there was certainly nothing in my comments that were overly having a crack or negative. We are ok with discussing the team though aren't we?

 

[HODGEYROAD]

Good grinding performance after quarter time.

 

[KermitJagger]

I already addressed what I believe the team needs up forward as a more pressing need and it isn't a pressure forward. I think we have that covered whether he plays or not. I'm certainly not creating a picture to work against either. I'm simply addressing the adulation he's getting compared with actual output. But anyway... moving on.

In terms of pressing needs I'd say:

Midfield that isn't:
1. 13th inside 50 differencial
2. 17th clearance differential
3. 2nd clanger differential
4. 17th disposal differential
5. 16th contested possession differential
6. 17th uncontested possession differential

Then, way way WAY in the rearview mirror... Conor Nash not being what you believe we need up forward (ignoring our game plan completely).

 

[lethalselbow]

Hmm, I'm pretty supportive of all our players. I'd be disappointed if this is directed at me. I made a one line comment on Nash amongst a post that addressed the game in general and performance of a number of players which has than been picked up on the Nash comment and manifested. And there was certainly nothing in my comments that were overly having a crack or negative. We are ok with discussing the team though aren't we?

All good. Wasn't you, just a couple of names i notice tend to switch between targets. Every poster can do what they wish.

On Nash, i think you'll find he's somewhere between your assessment and the adulation. I reckon the coaches are liking his development. When he fully clicks... oh baby! You will be a convert.

 

[MinerBoy]

In terms of pressing needs I'd say:

Midfield that isn't:
1. 13th inside 50 differencial
2. 17th clearance differential
3. 2nd clanger differential
4. 17th disposal differential
5. 16th contested possession differential
6. 17th uncontested possession differential

Then, way way WAY in the rearview mirror... Conor Nash not being what you believe we need up forward (ignoring our game plan completely).

This misses the mark a lot. We can't address the midfield issues any better than we are right now. It is what it is. We have some injuries and the cupboards are bare. And who's to say needs are mutually exclusive... we can't address both areas of the ground simultaneously?

However we have alternatives up forward and a need for someone other than our No.1 ruckman to be a marking option. Especially considering our game plan which I have no idea why we would ignore completely when discussing our needs. This his isn't a crack at Nash - stop making out like I'm bashing him. All I've said is he needs more development.

 

[MinerBoy]

All good. Wasn't you, just a couple of names i notice tend to switch between targets. Every poster can do what they wish.

On Nash, i think you'll find he's somewhere between your assessment and the adulation. I reckon the coaches are liking his development. When he fully clicks... oh baby! You will be a convert.

I hope you're right

 

[CD Xbow]

Anyone bit worried o meara worpel and cousins will burn out by mid year. Carrying a heavy midfield load.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

True, but we will have Howe coming back soon and he's a big bodied mid. Towards the end of the season our midfield stocks may be boosted by one T. Mitchel.

 

[drviccles]

I love Chad. Love love love.

 

[threesixpio]

Anyone bit worried o meara worpel and cousins will burn out by mid year. Carrying a heavy midfield load.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Yep. Howe will be important here. Might need some other options.

Shiels and Burgers our might actually help. They will be well rested in four weeks time and can step in

 

[KermitJagger]

This misses the mark a lot. We can't address the midfield issues any better than we are right now. It is what it is. We have some injuries and the cupboards are bare. And who's to say needs are mutually exclusive... we can't address both areas of the ground simultaneously?

However we have alternatives up forward and a need for someone other than our No.1 ruckman to be a marking option. Especially considering our game plan which I have no idea why we would ignore completely when discussing our needs. This his isn't a crack at Nash - stop making out like I'm bashing him. All I've said is he needs more development.

AFL is a game based on systems, so it's not prudent to try to address both areas of the ground simultaneously because one system impacts another. If you take Nash out, and put in a player who may be a bigger aerial threat, we're still a poor F50 entry team, with what entries we are getting being quite rushed.

So not only have you robbed our means of compensating for that (by ensuring that we put on enough pressure to force turn overs and keep the ball in), you've essentially shuffled deck chairs on the titanic in the forward half while at the same time taking away from the structure that has us 3rd in the competition for rebound 50 differential.

I'm not making out as though you're bashing him. Most of my posts have been pointing out your lack of understanding about our forward structure, which seems to rely on "Well we need to take more contested marks" despite being the second best contested marking team in the competition, and 7th for marks I50 despite limited opportunities.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Good grinding performance after quarter time.

Does anyone have insight into the adjustments which Clarko refers to? I was only half watching the game on the TV because we were at a BBQ (stupid friends).

 

[kirbatron]

 

[MinerBoy]

AFL is a game based on systems, so it's not prudent to try to address both areas of the ground simultaneously because one system impacts another. If you take Nash out, and put in a player who may be a bigger aerial threat, we're still a poor F50 entry team, with what entries we are getting being quite rushed.

So not only have you robbed our means of compensating for that (by ensuring that we put on enough pressure to force turn overs and keep the ball in), you've essentially shuffled deck chairs on the titanic in the forward half while at the same time taking away from the structure that has us 3rd in the competition for rebound 50 differential.

I'm not making out as though you're bashing him. Most of my posts have been pointing out your lack of understanding about our forward structure, which seems to rely on "Well we need to take more contested marks" despite being the second best contested marking team in the competition, and 7th for marks I50 despite limited opportunities.

I understand our forward structure. I just don't think we are utilising it the best we can. Even allowing for the style we are using.

See the thing is we have the players doing the things Nash is supposed to do.... Breust, Poppy and Wingard are all first class ground ball players and apply pressure and tackle too. So if the ball hits the ground we have that covered... and let's face it Rough is better on the ground than in the air too. So the way I see it Nash is surplus to needs whereas if we keep playing the F50 entry style you've mentioned, than a better aerial threat is exactly what we need. If say Lewis or McEvoy marks it then we get a shot for goal. And most likely a successful one. If they don't, we get what we've already got whether Nash plays or not.

Nash is no aerial threat, isn't a crumber or goal kicker and thus his MO is to chase, tackle and harrass and basically cause chaos for opposition defenders trying to exit our F50. He hasn't really been doing this. He's about 19th on our list of average tackles per game. He could become a fantastic addition if he gets to where they want him to be (and maybe you're right and he's close to there and I'm missing it completely....) but at this stage it feels like we are playing with 21 for large parts of the game because he's a complete non entity on the ground. Not a slight on him and why I simply suggst he needs more time at Box Hill to develop the parts of the game they want him to serve his role as. Bloody tough work to be asked to learn to play Australian Rules Football in the AFL environment.

You also have to factor in a better KPP forward target whether he marks the ball or not, makes our entries more direct and means that those A+ ground level players can be on the ground and doing exactly what they are meant to do instead of playing surrogate KPF due to the fact our current 'tall' players down there can't do it.

This isn't to say Lewis will come in and be an infinitely better player than Nash, regardless of the differing way they play footy. It just seems to me to be a far better forward set up that whether we are lacing out a KPF or going the long, high bomb with the aim of locking it in if it hits the ground.

I guess we are just not going to agree here. While he keeps getting games I'll keep cheering on the good things he's done (as I have with some of his little handballs etc in the first few games) and hoping that he finds a way to increase his impact. I'm not barracking against him.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Scrimshaw 7

This is quite mindblowing really. He's been playing like a 2-3 year player. What a steal.

 

[westhawk]

Nash’s field kicking is actually pretty damn good. People are creating a myth that he can’t kick at all.

Yeah agree mate, they will eventually sort out a set shot routine for him. Would make a great CHB though.

 

[Manila_Hawk]

Just watched the highlights on hawthornfc.com.au.

The handball from Dimma to Hendo for goal in the third quarter.

Just WOW !!

Longer, flatter and straighter than most people can kick.

 

[Snake_Baker]

Congrats on the win. Putrid game however.

We are currently running a coaching poll on Brad Scott vs a cat and the cats leading 21-0.

Looking forward to a very high draft pick and a new coach.

Update: The cat has stretched out to a 36-nil lead.

 

[Gene Simmons]

I appreciated Wingard when he was at the Power, but geez he brings that X-Factor & Excitement to the team we have lost since Cyril and will single handedly bring people through the gates.

An excellent performance first up considering the lack of match practice and having been nursed through training the last 5-6 weeks.

 

[Baz_hawk]

My thoughts:

Thought replacing Roughie with Moore was bad call pre-match. Whilst Roughead hasn't set the world in fire, he draws the best defender and still creates space and can bring the ball to ground. In the first term when we were bombing it to one on threes perhaps this would have helped us bring the ball to grass but hard to say.

First quarter was a shocking display from the boys. There was no structure in our setup and we were easily cut open through really poor checking. North started with intent and a plan and they really should have been further on front at quarter time.

The second term we really stepped up intensity and actually started to close off those easy exits from stoppages. Once pressure was applied the mistakes began and we were able to wrestle back momentum and apply scoreboard pressure.

After half time we made some further adjustments and the game plan seemed to be shifted to a more controlling style.

Breust was huge for us, not only by hitting the scoreboard but with his aerial work and pressure.
Wingard really looks damaging and I loved his enthusiasm and genuine excitement when he slotted a few.
McEvoy was best on in my opinion. Dominated in the air, I think one third of his hit outs were to advantage and he really made Goldie look second rate.
Scully worked his ass off and is really a beast of an athlete. Just look at his sprint numbers from the match.
Scrimshaw gets better every week, Nash worked himself into the game in the second half, Mirra was real important in setting up our defence when Stratton was up the ground.

Moore was okay but made some shocking disposal errors. Put that down to first game jitters.

I think Howe is going to be knocking at the door, Morrison might be the one to make way. Like the kid but Howe is ahead of him for mine.

 

[grumbleguts]

Congrats on the win. Putrid game however.

We are currently running a coaching poll on Brad Scott vs a cat and the cats leading 21-0.

Looking forward to a very high draft pick and a new coach.

Thanks for your input in our theads. You've been a balanced and valid contributor. A refreshing change from the normal opposition cretin we get playing on our lawn. I swear half the bigfooty user base are 14thmond supporters' aliases..

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Player by player

1 - Harry Morrison (6 kicks, 4 handballs, 2 marks, 5 tackles): Continued his subdued start to the season. Had some okay touches in the second half, but also made some errors that will need to be reviewed and corrected in the upcoming weeks.

4 - Jarman Impey (15 kicks, 3 handballs, 8 marks, 3 tackles): Liked his game off half-back. You can't always rely on him to hit his targets, but he gives 100% and did a good job matched up against Aaron Hall.

5 - James Worpel (8 kicks, 19 handballs, 1 mark, 2 goal assists): Went head to head against Ben Cunnington and while Cunnington probably shaded the contest, Worpel was an influential reason as to why Hawthorn arrested the one-way traffic out of the centre in the first quarter.

6 - James Sicily (17 kicks, 5 handballs, 7 marks, 1 tackle, 1 goal assist): I still don't quite understand why more clubs borrow from Richmond's blueprint on how to play Sicily from last year's qualifying final where they did a great job to nullify Sicily's influence. All Sicily's tricks were on display during the game - his intercept marking, his long-range passing and his general swagger. Did make a pretty big blue in the third quarter that resulted in a turnover goal, but apart from that, he played a very good game.

7 - Ben McEvoy (13 kicks, 3 handballs, 9 marks, 2 goals, 5 tackles, 22 hit-outs): Apart from a five or so minute patch in the third quarter when he was out-rucked by Tom Campbell, McEvoy was a leading light for the Hawks and an instrumental part in Hawthorn overcoming a 27 point deficit to defeat the Kangaroos. A personal highlight was seeing the 200cm McEvoy nimbly snap a goal in the fourth quarter. Terrific game from him.

10 - Jaeger O'Meara (16 kicks, 15 handballs, 3 marks, 12 tackles): Started poorly by turning over all his first quarter disposals and then gave away a goal with an ill-disciplined act that cost a 50 metre penalty. But put those to one side and you'll see the heavy work O'Meara does in carrying this Hawthorn midfield. In the absence of Liam Shiels, O'Meara's 12 tackles was a team high (nobody else had more than five) and was an important part of his game.

11 - Conor Nash (9 kicks, 2 handballs, 4 marks, 1 goal, 1 tackle): Not sure what to make of Nash right now. His set shot routine is all wrong but if you see him around the ground, he is actually a very good field kick. There aren't too many people playing football at Nash's height who have his speed, so you can see why the Hawks are persisting with him. I think he's still yet to work out exactly what he needs to be doing on the football field, but what he does obviously pleases the coaches. Hopefully the upward trend continues.

12 - James Frawley (8 kicks, 5 handballs, 4 marks, 2 tackles): Ben Brown had seven touches and kicked 1.2 for the day, so with the assistance of his fellow defenders, Frawley did the job once more. Obviously limited when Hawthorn goes forward, but he's not in the side for his prowess with ball in hand.

15 - Blake Hardwick (10 kicks, 7 handballs, 4 marks, 1 tackle): Continuing to become an impressive member of Hawthorn's back six and was very good in setting up rebounds out of defence. I suspect Hardwick would be one of the first selected and will be a vital component to combat the Saints' small forward brigade next week.

16 - Isaac Smith (15 kicks, 7 handballs, 8 marks, 1 goal, 4 tackles): It seemed to me that Smith started the game on the half-forward flank and he found it tough going in the first quarter (as did many of his teammates). Seemed to be shifted into a more prominent role in midfield from the second quarter and ended up being an influential player for Hawthorn.

18 - Jonathon Ceglar (4 kicks, 7 handballs, 4 marks, five tackles, 17 hit-outs): Ceglar played his role providing support to McEvoy in the ruck and offering a tall target down the line for his teammates. A very good, if underrated game, from Ceglar.

19 - Jack Gunston (11 kicks, 5 handballs, 5 marks, 2 tackles): Still does a power of work around the ground but his goal kicking is becoming a serious concern. Not a game for the ages from Gunston.

20 - Chad Wingard (9 kicks, 1 handball, 3 marks, 3 goals, 3 tackles): The third goal was the most impressive goal from Wingard and underlined the reason why Hawthorn paid a significant price at the trade table to extract him from Port Adelaide. Given the context of the game when he scored it, it was such a valuable goal and a goal that only a few people playing AFL would have the skill and audacity to execute. Only 10 disposals for the game as he played solely a forward pocket role for the Hawks, but he chased, he harassed and he never let the North Melbourne defenders feel settled. A great first game for his new club.

21 - Tom Scully (9 kicks, 15 handballs, 1 mark, 4 tackles): In his second game for Hawthorn, Scully underlined why Hawthorn were prepared to roll the dice on him. His run was important for Hawthorn and while he had more handballs than kicks, he was usually doing something constructive with the ball in hand. Also didn't shirk the defensive side of the game and was an important link-up man for the Hawks.

22 - Luke Breust (9 kicks, 4 handballs, 5 marks, 5 goals, 3 tackles): The top scorer on the day, Breust would have relished the extra attention the North defenders gave to Wingard as it gave the room Breust needed to make an important impact on the game. It was one of those games where you look up at the scoreboard and suddenly realise that Breust had five goals on the board.

24 - Ben Stratton (6 kicks, 7 handballs, 5 marks, 3 tackles): I felt that Stratton could improve on his game. Was caught out of position on a number of occasions and was bailed out by his teammates more than once. Not his best game, but a win is a win.

28 - Paul Puopolo (4 kicks, 6 handballs, 1 tackle): It seemed that Hawthorn's strategy going forward in the first quarter was to bomb the ball onto Poppy's head and see what he could do. He chased and harassed as much as ever but he had limited influence on the game.

31 - Ricky Henderson (11 kicks, 18 handballs, 7 marks, 1 goal, 3 tackles): A tremendous game from Henderson and one of the key reasons why Hawthorn was able to overturn the 27 point deficit and record a 16 point win by the final siren. Always running and was able to find enough space behind the North Melbourne defence to kick an important goal to settle the side when North Melbourne missed two opportunities to take the lead back in the third quarter. Continuing a very rich vein of form.

32 - David Mirra (13 kicks, 8 handballs, 5 marks, 1 tackle): It occurred to me that Mirra is the 2019 model of Stephen Gilham. Solid, reliable and dependable. Unheralded but I think becoming a key structural component of Hawthorn's back-line. Recruited from Box Hill as a rookie at the start of 2018, he's been familiar with the Hawthorn concepts of team defence for many years and he is also a leader, having been Box Hill's captain for some time. I think that Hawthorn's defence functions better with Mirra in the team, even if he isn't the tallest, fastest or best defender in the side.

35 - Jack Scrimshaw (10 kicks, 9 handballs, 5 marks, 1 tackle): Unafraid to take on the game and prepared to butter up from his mistakes. Quietly impressive game from the young kid who is fast becoming a solid player for the Hawks out of defence.

36 - Dylan Moore (2 kicks, 7 handballs, 1 mark, 5 tackles): Not the best debut game you'll ever witness and if I had to hazard a guess, I would say that he was affected by nerves and was probably trying too hard to make an impression. Got a taste for it and got to sing the song in the middle of the players post-match, so hopefully he'll settle down and better illustrate why the Hawks are seemingly so high on him (but they best get him out of #36 before it's too late).

46 - James Cousins (10 kicks, 6 handballs, 2 marks, 4 tackles): Very much the third wheel in Hawthorn's midfield, it's fairly easy to see why Cousins came into the team as a rookie pick, rather than a pick through the national draft. Just a step too slow on occasions and the skills need some sharpening. But the future is bright so while there's room in the side, it's worth persisting with him.

 

[Hodgey 15]

Port's"General AFL talk forum" makes for some interesting reading regarding Chad after about 5pm yesterday.

 

[lethalselbow]

Port's"General AFL talk forum" makes for some interesting reading regarding Chad after about 5pm yesterday.

lol

 

[Kinghts 24]

Haven't trawled thru 13 pages so not sure if this has been covered, but i reckon a big shout out to Frawley is in order.

He cops a lot from some "fans" but i reckon he did a pretty good job on B Brown yesterday. Not too many Kangas players that make me nervous but Big Ben is one of them - probably THE one.

To hold Brown to 1 goal was a great effort - supported by other Hawks defenders sure, but Frawley got the big job done.

Nice one Chip!

 

[Bugs1977]

Apologies if i have missed it, has anyone gif'ed the jaeger spin I think in the 3rd quarter?

I'd much rather someone make a gif of when Isaac was on the mark and did a 360º turn to put off the goal kicker (I think it was Ziebell). Bloody Isaac and some of the stuff he does