Roast It's time to talk about the coaches

[1970crow]

I rate Fagan, the guy is clearly a talented operator

But you do have to wonder if his role needs to be separated out and someone with greater footy industry experience can manage the AFL mens portion of the club*

*not nigel smart.

He stated as fact that what he could deliver was the best people in the right seats. I think he might have talent, but in the actual reason that we exist and against that very simple mission statement, he's a complete failure. A COMPLETE FAILURE. Sorry, against the singular most important KPI, he's a complete failure and we don't know where he's pulled money from to ensure that our financials look good. If we're actually paying the full cap and the full soft cap for footy dept then he's ridiculously incompetent. It's his job to get that right, he cannot remove himself from this responsibility.

 

[Crow_68]

Never heard one of our coaches say ‘we got it wrong’.

The disconnect between our forwards and mids is due to the different structures being forced on them. If we let them play on instinct, we would be a 3-4 goal better side.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[1970crow]

If it really was all the players fault, we should see plenty of changes this week... not!

come on mate, murph out, greenwood in. Surely you're not trying to suggest that we won't be ringing the changes and re-jigging the way we go about it. I'm hoping that next week you won't be equally disinterested when we drop Jones for the Gooch. We all argue about what we should do, but the sad reality is that it's very easy to predict what we will do. And we can pretty much do that a few weeks in advance, injuries willing.

 

[1970crow]

I disagree. They may have won it or not but I see some major structural differences between Year 1-2 and this year

I do agree on staleness , imagine Don asking the group for any ideas

'' Yeah Don at Sturt we did this and it seemed to work ok''

''aw Don dont listen to Marty (pun intended ) this is how we always do it at Adelaide''

Yep, there's a number of otherwise good posters who are calling for Hart's head. What is the likelihood that Hart was given carte blanche authority to just roll in and re-invent the otherwise "super successful" (when shits going our way) forward structure. Firstly, it's not a vacuum, the forward line relies upon the line system ahead of it. Secondly, Ben Hart would never have been provided with any authority to change anything. Our entire system is under the control of Don Pyke and Scott Moron, there would be no strategic or personnel adjustments that wouldn't be signed off by those guys. Suggesting that Hart is a problem is pure and rank stupidity, he doesn't have the authority to have influence.

We have 2 major problems. I can sum this up in 4 words.

DON PYKE
SCOTT CAMPOREALE.

Our lack of ability to be a consistently great football team is fairly and squarely the responsibility of those 2 Neil Craig disciples. It's the reason that we are out-coached regularly and that we very rarely claw back from a bad situation. We make no moves, we only trust our system. We're back living in the mid/late 2000's. That's us, enjoy. At least until Don and Scott go. 1 won't do, we need both gone.

 

[jackster83]

He stated as fact that what he could deliver was the best people in the right seats. I think he might have talent, but in the actual reason that we exist and against that very simple mission statement, he's a complete failure. A COMPLETE FAILURE. Sorry, against the singular most important KPI, he's a complete failure and we don't know where he's pulled money from to ensure that our financials look good. If we're actually paying the full cap and the full soft cap for footy dept then he's ridiculously incompetent. It's his job to get that right, he cannot remove himself from this responsibility.

I'd place the blame more on Ricciuto and those on the board who control the reigns of the football department. Fagan wouldn't have the power to fire Burton or any of the coaches without their approval, though they will no doubt roll him out when we sack Pyke (either later this year or next).

 

[1970crow]

Our development is fine, it's selection policy that needs to change.

That's a start. It would also be nice if our entire season strategy wasn't locked in prior to preseason starting. What would also be nice is if we had a look at our opponents each week and adjusted the way we went about it to maximise our potential of winning. But we don't do that, it's all about measuring US against the way that WE PLAY. It's been a constant a joke that our coaches don't think that we need to consider what our opponents bring and just push forward with doing our shit better.

 

[1970crow]

I have seen many a coach come and go from Cornes to Shaw to Ayres to Blight to Craig to Sanderson to Walsh to Pyke. Blight and Walsh were great coaches and great men. I know a good coach when I see one. Pyke imo is the worst coach we have ever had and the sooner he is terminated the quicker the club can start to heal and grow. He is not the total problem. The real problem is the ones that hired him. Chapman, Riccuito, Fagan. The 3 blind mice who hire a coach more bland and vanilla then Craig. FMD. What did they see? Listen to Pyke talk. He talks a lot but says nothing. I would prefer a coach who talks little and says a lot. Trust me there is a difference. He lost the players a while ago. Was when he stood on the field like a dickhead and stared at them without talking. Reminded me of Sanderson digging his fingers into players chests. You know what the players thought about Don up in Alice Springs? This guy has no answers. Don mate, you are out of your depth. The excuses need to come to an end. Time for honesty. There is no shame in being a bad coach, you aren't the first and you won't be the last. You'll just be one of the many bad coaches who have graced our club. I remember walsh being interviewd after a bad loss and he stated in so many words "Well i am going look at the players in the SANFL to see who can replace the underperformers". Would you ever hear that out of Pyke's mouth? You know the answer. By the way, Camporeale, Hart and Burton must exit as well. As for the others I have no clue if they can coach but I would leave it to the next coach to choose his own crew.

Agree. Don's only out is that he's been hamstrung by not having his preferred crew around him. But then, if he had a clue, he'd have had that and died upon his own sword. But he's just rolled into our shitful system and banked his pay cheque. Cutting him won't solve our problems, they exist higher up, but if he walked he could assist in fixing our footy club. But he won't and the reason is that he's perfectly happy with everything that happens around him. He is simply a very average coach and he is absolutely not an agent of change. But he'll bank a good amount of money while not actually helping us to be a better footy club.

SEEYA.

 

[Dank Academy]

The question is; if you started a new club tomorrow, who would your coaching panel be? (Good thread idea, if I say so myself).
That's who Fagan should be pursuing if he wants to deliver only one aspect of the best football program in the AFL.

 

[MRB37]

I think part of the problem is we haven't ID'd the correct mix of coaches either.

Pyke is probably relatively inexperienced at AFL level, with 4 years experience in the AFL system, across two separate stints before becoming head coach.

So in that scenario you'd think you'd want to give him some relatively experienced assistants to help him.

Teague was a holdover, but a tick in that department, having developed his coaching first through the VFL and then with the Eagles and Saints before coming here.

Campo and Clarke are experienced in tenure, but they have little to no experience outside the four walls of Adelaide, they only know one way to do things. That is not a good thing and if either had any serious desires to be a head coach, they'd of gone elsewhere, the fact they haven't probably tells you either A. how they view themselves or B. how the rest of the league views them. We gave him Pods, who was only in his 2nd year, then replaced him with Hart, who had a stint with us, then a terrible one with Collingwood. Then we also bring in two coaches in one year with no AFL experience in Mattner and Godden, that's not a slight on them, but they are unknown quantities and you'd think adding more inexperience to the panel is not the right mix at this stage.

Then we find out Pyke wants a 2IC in a senior assistant who is in charge of game day strategy. That seems like the PERFECT role to bring in an experienced coach who has had success across a few clubs. Maybe this is the role Pyke wanted Sumich in, someone he has a relationship with and trusts, gameday changes are a weakness of Pyke, so wouldn't you want the best person you can find? Instead we use that to promote Campo, who again, does not have a wide variety of experience across the league with multiple teams. That was the role you go for a Brett Ratten with, or a very experienced assistant like Scott Burns, not to promote a stale assistant into an even more important role.

So the end result is we've got two guys finding their feet in Mattner and Godden, two stale assistants in Campo and Clarke and one out of his depth coach in Hart.

 

[1970crow]

Of the two it was obvious who was at fault. I screamed at Lynch for plodding along in a bloody daydream. But more at fault was our set up or lack of running with absolutely nobody ahead of Jerka and Lynch but Geelong players.

They were as bad as each other. Had JJ cut inside and ran hard he'd have been able to loop a 45 degree handball to Lynch who should have started running harder as soon as he saw JJ pivot and go. But no, our 4 specialist forwards don't care.

 

[MRB37]

Agree. Don's only out is that he's been hamstrung by not having his preferred crew around him. But then, if he had a clue, he'd have had that and died upon his own sword. But he's just rolled into our shitful system and banked his pay cheque. Cutting him won't solve our problems, they exist higher up, but if he walked he could assist in fixing our footy club. But he won't and the reason is that he's perfectly happy with everything that happens around him. He is simply a very average coach and he is absolutely not an agent of change. But he'll bank a good amount of money while not actually helping us to be a better footy club.

SEEYA.

You won't find a coach in the land who would quit his job over not getting an assistant. Most will just try to overcome it.

 

[1970crow]

It's team wide at present; it's either a blind/rushed hack kick forward, a shitty sideways handball, or a delay in making any decision which results in all options being shut down.

I genuinely believe it's a coaching issue; they don't know what they are supposed to be doing, so there is no confidence and certainty with the ball movement.

BULLSHIT!!!! We had a root and branch external review that left no stone unturned. Obviously we engaged internal staff to conduct this external review, but you can be assured it was a full root and branch effort and very frank and fearless advice was provided. It's not coaching, we're schmick in that area, if we weren't, we wouldn't have kept the same long serving staff together. In fact, you can tell how highly credentialled a work crew is by calculating how long they've been together.

I shit you not, a major KPI of our club is staff turnover. We go out of our way to keep staff to ensure that our turnover % is elite. I thought it was a Trigg thing, given his dumbassedness, but I'm nearly convinced that it's a board thing. And by that I think it's a Ferret Face thing, because Chappy is an ex banker and has literally no idea about how to create a successful culture in the AFL environment.

 

[1970crow]

Correct, it's like we haven't practiced leading patterns & ball movement in preseason.

Disagree. We've definitely practiced it. The problem is that when we're working around witches hats under no pressure, whilst working up and then running back unopposed, its not really relevant to what happens in the heat of battle. We do shit tins of work in the offseason, the problem is that is all that we do. Our coaching group doesn't consider anything else other than how individual players are judged against their personal expectations.

Our coaches literally don't give a shit what our opponents bring to the table. They just back in their 5 months of preseason and the rest is on the players. They are out of their depth.

 

[arrowman]

Everyone knows what a ruthless business man and footy player he was and

People say that, but where is the evidence that Roo has been a "ruthless businessman"?

 

[GreyCrow]

BULLSHIT!!!! We had a root and branch external review that left no stone unturned. Obviously we engaged internal staff to conduct this external review, but you can be assured it was a full root and branch effort and very frank and fearless advice was provided. It's not coaching, we're schmick in that area, if we weren't, we wouldn't have kept the same long serving staff together. In fact, you can tell how highly credentialled a work crew is by calculating how long they've been together.

I shit you not, a major KPI of our club is staff turnover. We go out of our way to keep staff to ensure that our turnover % is elite. I thought it was a Trigg thing, given his dumbassedness, but I'm nearly convinced that it's a board thing. And by that I think it's a Ferret Face thing, because Chappy is an ex banker and has literally no idea about how to create a successful culture in the AFL environment.

Hmm everybody has forgotten about this. Good pick up. Maybe a question for 5aa or SEN or Triple M

Hell might need Elspeth. Or maybe the Crowcast as they seem to be the only ones prepared to critique the AFC

 

[1970crow]

Maybe it has just taken Hart 3 weeks to realize lol

It's not Hart. FFS line coaches only look at their area and positioning. Strategy is designed by Pyke and his lieutenant Campo. Why do people think that Hart was given full autonomy to create a forward system. Even then, how about we forget the word 'system' and get our specialist forwards, Tex, JJ, Lyncn and Betts to work their arses off leading at the ball carrier.

It's not Hart, it's not any of the other line coaches that have left our club. It's very frucking simple, the reason that we aren't good and the reason that we can't adjust to an opponent is because of 4 words.

DON PYKE
SCOTT CAMPOREALE

This is why there's no cutting edge to selection or in-game changes. We have gone all in on these 2 dimwits and what is absolutely terrible is that the 2 of them have so much power that when shit hits the fan, the board are all in on it being a player problem.

THIS IS WHY WE'RE SCREWED. NAMES;

Ferret Face
Rooshooto
Every other effwit board member who covets their position ahead of us being the best team in the comp
Trigg - i know he's gone, but his damage lasts
Nigel Smart - $300k of wasted footy dept money
That CFO moron that i had the displeasure to engage with. "Mate, once you've incurred the liability, it's a little too late to suggest that payment is incumbent upon filling out a form." And your ridiculous excuses as to why it was important that we filled out that form was infantile. Dickwad.
Brett Burton
Don Pyke
Scott Camporeale

You know what, I can't even mention Doc Clarke despite him working Sauce into the ground over the last 4 years. I'm now not so sure on him. There's some serious problems. Sauce thrived upon massive workload and continuity and he also liked to ruck 100% of the ground and he might also have enjoyed playing injured with a knee. He also enjoyed denying ROB a couple of games back in 2016 when he returned a couple of weeks early from his injury.

I don't blame Sauce, there's been a deny the next guy culture for ages. We all remember Danger playing hurt, we all remember Sauce being shit, we all remember Tex's shortened "mid season tune up"and poor old Rory playing with a horrible foot.

We all remember this and the players do as well. They're not stupid, they've left the coaching group behind. And that's easy to do with our coaches.

 

[ShadeyP]

Don Pyke, Senior Coach - gone
Scott Camporeale, Senior Assistant Coach/Game Strategy - gone
Ben Hart, Assistant Coach (Forwards) - gone
Marty Mattner, Assistant Coach (Defence) - stay
Michael Godden, Assistant Coach (Midfield) - stay
Matthew Clarke, Assistant Coach (Ruck) - stay
Heath Younie, SANFL Senior Coach and Development Manager - stay
Brent Reilly, Defensive Development Coach - stay
Paul Thomas, Midfield Development Coach - stay
Matthew Wright, Forwards Development Coach - stay

I don't see the SANFL coaches enough, so it's harder to make a call

Clarke ordinarily I'd have fired but he did very well with the AFLW so maybe he's being hamstrung

What a dull list of absolute Mediocrity - Mattner is the only lateral thinker in that whole group . Absolute C grade .

 

[Redline]

People say that, but where is the evidence that Roo has been a "ruthless businessman"?

I agree, he gave his money to the right people (organised by the club) but that is where his involvement ended. He made next to no actual business decisions.

 

[ShadeyP]

I think part of the problem is we haven't ID'd the correct mix of coaches either.

Pyke is probably relatively inexperienced at AFL level, with 4 years experience in the AFL system, across two separate stints before becoming head coach.

So in that scenario you'd think you'd want to give him some relatively experienced assistants to help him.

Teague was a holdover, but a tick in that department, having developed his coaching first through the VFL and then with the Eagles and Saints before coming here.

Campo and Clarke are experienced in tenure, but they have little to no experience outside the four walls of Adelaide, they only know one way to do things. That is not a good thing and if either had any serious desires to be a head coach, they'd of gone elsewhere, the fact they haven't probably tells you either A. how they view themselves or B. how the rest of the league views them. We gave him Pods, who was only in his 2nd year, then replaced him with Hart, who had a stint with us, then a terrible one with Collingwood. Then we also bring in two coaches in one year with no AFL experience in Mattner and Godden, that's not a slight on them, but they are unknown quantities and you'd think adding more inexperience to the panel is not the right mix at this stage.

Then we find out Pyke wants a 2IC in a senior assistant who is in charge of game day strategy. That seems like the PERFECT role to bring in an experienced coach who has had success across a few clubs. Maybe this is the role Pyke wanted Sumich in, someone he has a relationship with and trusts, gameday changes are a weakness of Pyke, so wouldn't you want the best person you can find? Instead we use that to promote Campo, who again, does not have a wide variety of experience across the league with multiple teams. That was the role you go for a Brett Ratten with, or a very experienced assistant like Scott Burns, not to promote a stale assistant into an even more important role.

So the end result is we've got two guys finding their feet in Mattner and Godden, two stale assistants in Campo and Clarke and one out of his depth coach in Hart.

Excellent Post

 

[Golumless]

Hart needs to go, **** me that forward line is a mess which is on the coach. You can't assume a forward line can coach themselves. That's just stupid, and arrogant.

The rest, well, Matter/Gooden I'm willing to give time to because both are rookies. Campo should have been gone long ago just seeing our midfield has had the same issues for a decade, Birdman is just a dud etc.

The big question is what do you do with Pyke if this continues? That could come down to our plans next year. We looked worked out, cooked and frightened however it depends if you decide to gun for a premiership in 2020 or hit the reset button. If Pyke doesn't make it this year, and you think this list has a premiership in it (I don't in 2020), you have to sack him. If it's reset, this may be rather unpopular, but I'd keep Pyke for at least that transition year or two, his record with developing players has been rather solid.

 

[MRB37]

Hart needs to go, **** me that forward line is a mess which is on the coach. You can't assume a forward line can coach themselves. That's just stupid, and arrogant.

The rest, well, Matter/Gooden I'm willing to give time to because both are rookies. Campo should have been gone long ago just seeing our midfield has had the same issues for a decade, Birdman is just a dud etc.

The big question is what do you do with Pyke if this continues? That could come down to our plans next year. We looked worked out, cooked and frightened however it depends if you decide to gun for a premiership in 2020 or hit the reset button. If Pyke doesn't make it this year, and you think this list has a premiership in it (I don't in 2020), you have to sack him. If it's reset, this may be rather unpopular, but I'd keep Pyke for at least that transition year or two, his record with developing players has been rather solid.

If Pyke gets the assistants he wants across all lines then he gets a year or two like Buckley and Hardwick did. Early days, but even Hinkley looks a bit better this year with some better assistants like Schoefield and Montgomery in the box. Doc Clarke might be a fine coach for the women, that's good, he can take over that role full-time and we can bring in a new ruck coach who doesn't teach the rucks all the same exact way he taught Sauce. Campo and Hart need to be shown the door at a minimum for 2020.

If we do what we did when we got hired Sanderson, Walsh and then Pyke it'll be a fail. About the only coach we've moved on was ROK and that was a footy cap $ thing, Pods, Teague, Francou, Milburn, they've all left of their own accord and it seems as long as you want to stay then you don't have to worry about your job if you're an assistant. So if Pyke gets turfed, we just continue with Campo, Clarke and Hart, are we massively better off? I've said before if they fire Pyke they may as well put Campo in charge full-time, because if he can survive 4 head coaches then he's obviously the man who should be running the joint.

 

[maxlilly]

I think Pyke had a very cunning plan.
Making Campo Head of Strategy at the beginning of the season. And give him a longer rope.
It's plain to see this year our strategy has gone to poo and Campo will be out the door
Seriously, it doesn't look like the coaches have got the players on board.
And after the losses to hawks and Cats, the players have no faith in their game plan.
The coaches always give the impression that when things don't work out, it's always the players fault

 

[King Elvis]

https://www.afc.com.au/news/2018-09-26/coaches-finalised-for-2019

Camporeale will take further responsibility around game strategy in season 2019.

Oh, now it all makes sense.

 

[Cap]

https://www.afc.com.au/news/2018-09-26/coaches-finalised-for-2019



Oh, now it all makes sense.

I'm not disagreeing with your cynicism, given how unproven he is it makes sense.

But do we give him more than 3 games?

 

[King Elvis]

I'm not disagreeing with your cynicism, given how unproven he is it makes sense.

But do we give him more than 3 games?

He's had 10 years mate.