Roast It's time to talk about the coaches

[Geoffa32]

He spoke specifically about the vision. Said there was 15 minutes where each player went through their stuff but that it wasn't always that relevant and didn't include any of the time they didn't have the ball which was one of the major things he needed to improve.

Fair enough.
I still think he is bitter he didnt make it.

As I said this is one area our club is good at.

It could be a case it was PR thing in Rookie Listing him. He clearly is not good enough to play AFL.

Neither was B Jarman. He is at least giving it a good crack at North North Adelaide.

The club probably should have never Rookie Listed them.

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[Tex200]

All teams have shit games all teams have ebbs and flows.

The Crows weren't the first team in history to have a shocker in a GF and won't be the last.

Rd 1 2019 has nothing to do with Rd 23 2016.

The problem we have is players are human, so are the coaches, they don't perform exactly to their optimum every single week.

That being said, if someone could actually put in a structure for our forward 50 entries i would be a lot happier.

I think I’d be more comfortable on that line of thought if there had been a reasonable churn of players throughout the last 5 years.

We have had an extremely static playing group for a long time. Therefore when you see similar performances, under similar conditions from the same players - it’s hard not conclude there’s a pattern of behaviour established.

 

[Scorpus]

The thing that frustrates me most about Jackson's interview is that it reinforces the theory that we decide on players way too early in the season.

You either "win" the pre season or "lose" it. If you don't look good during that period it's almost impossible to do anything throughout the season to put yourself forward.

We've seen this before with not just Jackson but players like Wigg who were tearing it up but told weren't going to get a chance no matter what. Same with Doedee who had to wait two full seasons to get a go.

And then on the flip side if you win, you get loads of games, sometimes underserved. McGovern got full seasons and put up long stretches of shit.

Surely we should be aiming to improve players throughout the entire season and giving them opportunities when deserved and plenty of good feedback

 

[Samcro24]

I think he is just an little jaded and has Choco (his current coach) in his ear.

Development of young players is a strength of this club. In particular those from the Rookie List.

Maybe he expected more one on one coaching instead of personal drive to achieve being a main facet of his development.



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I just think its a poor look.

He should make the Weribee side, get drafted, play 250 games, then devote a chapter in his autobigraphy about it.

As it stands, he's just a player that was unlikely to make it the first place having a sook about being delisted.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Why is he not playing for Werribee now?

 

[Samcro24]

Why is he not playing for Werribee now?

Shit coaching

 

[GreyCrow]

Do I think the line was delivered? Yes

Do I think that was the only feedback he got? Of course not.


Taking another (groan Mackay ) tack its instructive in understanding how David continues to get games over others. He runs the lines!

(there is indeed a lot more to David but its interesting to think about)

 

[ManInTheArena]

Why is he not playing for Werribee now?

The coaches didn't give him a lift to the oval. It's all their fault. Tyson has to do it now because Choco is useless.

I think the VFL have only played one round. Not sure if he played or not.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The coaches didn't give him a lift to the oval. It's all their fault. Tyson has to do it now because Choco is useless.

I think the VFL have only played one round. Not sure if he played or not.

He didn't play Round 1 and hasn't been picked this week.

Do they have reserves? Couldn't see it.

Mr Fitness Guru Interviewer didn't mention that he was injured. That would reflect poorly.

 

[Scorpus]

He didn't play Round 1 and hasn't been picked this week.

Do they have reserves? Couldn't see it.

Mr Fitness Guru Interviewer didn't mention that he was injured. That would reflect poorly.

The interview was from a month ago. Could be injured

 

[earlsta]

Pretty sure he’s injured at Werribee, played a practice game I think. Didn’t play round 1 and won’t be playing round 2

 

[Geoffa32]

The thing that frustrates me most about Jackson's interview is that it reinforces the theory that we decide on players way too early in the season.

You either "win" the pre season or "lose" it. If you don't look good during that period it's almost impossible to do anything throughout the season to put yourself forward.

We've seen this before with not just Jackson but players like Wigg who were tearing it up but told weren't going to get a chance no matter what. Same with Doedee who had to wait two full seasons to get a go.

And then on the flip side if you win, you get loads of games, sometimes underserved. McGovern got full seasons and put up long stretches of shit.

Surely we should be aiming to improve players throughout the entire season and giving them opportunities when deserved and plenty of good feedback

I personally think the AFL clubs decided on the calibre of player he is when no one drafted him and we were able to get him with the last of our four Rookie.picks in 2017.

We picked Wilson, CEY, Lachlan Murphy before Jackson Edwards in that Rookie.


Lachie Murphy seemed to do allright in our system coming in at the same point. Is a borderline best 22 player.



Probably has a far better attitude.




There was nothing wrong with Doedee's development.



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[Scorpus]

I personally think the AFL clubs decided on the calibre of player he is when no one drafted him and we were able to get him with the last of our four Rookie.picks in 2017.

We picked Wilson, CEY, Lachlan Murphy before Jackson Edwards in that Rookie.


Lachie Murphy seemed to do allright in our system coming in at the same point. Is a borderline best 22 player.



Probably has a far better attitude.




There was nothing wrong with Doedee's development.



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If you don't think a player is worth drafting, you don't go and draft them then given them no feedback for an entire season. You just don't draft them.

We should be working with every player on the list throughout the season to improve them as a player and see if they can be developed into something that is AFL standard. We don't gain anything from throwing a player to the curb before they have a chance; we should give them a chance, see what it's like then reassess as the end of the season.

In general I think our development is pretty good but there is definitely (or has been) a system where if you aren't in the mix for round 1, and especially if you have a poor pre-season and aren't David Mackay, you'll find it very hard to gain any ground in that year. It's linked to the conservative selection policy but we almost never deviate from our round 1 best 22. We might change one player in that best 22 for the entire season. Either you're in it before the season starts, or you're not.

As an aside when you are nominated as a father son rookie you are always taken with the final selection in the rookie draft

 

[Scorpus]

Pretty sure he’s injured at Werribee, played a practice game I think. Didn’t play round 1 and won’t be playing round 2

Yeah he hasn't been playing for his reserves-affiliated club Spotswood which suggests he is injured

 

[Geoffa32]

If you don't think a player is worth drafting, you don't go and draft them then given them no feedback for an entire season. You just don't draft them.

We should be working with every player on the list throughout the season to improve them as a player and see if they can be developed into something that is AFL standard. We don't gain anything from throwing a player to the curb before they have a chance; we should give them a chance, see what it's like then reassess as the end of the season.

In general I think our development is pretty good but there is definitely (or has been) a system where if you aren't in the mix for round 1, and especially if you have a poor pre-season and aren't David Mackay, you'll find it very hard to gain any ground in that year. It's linked to the conservative selection policy but we almost never deviate from our round 1 best 22. We might change one player in that best 22 for the entire season. Either you're in it before the season starts, or you're not.

As an aside when you are nominated as a father son rookie you are always taken with the final selection in the rookie draft

I think you need to bear in mind this is all coming from a guy who we Rookie Listed, based on his surname, even though he was not good enough who we then delisted and is now being coached by a guy who hates the Crows and was a media driver in over dramatising the camp last year.

Who is to say we don't do what you suggest here. Our development/nurturing of young players is pretty good. You use Wigg as an example. Yes he didnt make it with us (for whatever reason), but still good enough to go to another AFL club.

The fact Lachie Murphy was drafted so late (just before Jackson) and is now borderline best 22 suggests to me that if Jackson had the skillset/raw ability and more importantly attitude to make it he would have.


Every other club still passed on him.

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[Geoffa32]

I wonder if the only reason we gave Jackson a crack was to appease his family knowing Luke was in the pipeline.

Maybe we should have left him in the list just to appease them even more untill Luke nominated us F/S?

That ship has sailed now.

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[Scorpus]

I think you need to bear in mind this is all coming from a guy who we Rookie Listed, based on his surname, even though he was not good enough who we then delisted and is now being coached by a guy who hates the Crows and was a media driver in over dramatising the camp last year.

Who is to say we don't do what you suggest here. Our development/nurturing of young players is pretty good. You use Wigg as an example. Yes he didnt make it with us (for whatever reason), but still good enough to go to another AFL club.

The fact Lachie Murphy was drafted so late (just before Jackson) and is now borderline best 22 suggests to me that if Jackson had the skillset/raw ability and more importantly attitude to make it he would have.


Every other club still passed on him.

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I'm well aware this is coming from a disgruntled delisted player. But it's just one example in a pattern. Many of us thought Edwards was stiff to be delisted after one year, in fact I think any player is stiff to get delisted after such a short period of time unless they are mature age

As for Lachie Murphy he played a year on our SANFL list before he was drafted, so he was already effectively in his second year by the time he played.

 

[Geoffa32]

I'm well aware this is coming from a disgruntled delisted player. But it's just one example in a pattern. Many of us thought Edwards was stiff to be delisted after one year, in fact I think any player is stiff to get delisted after such a short period of time unless they are mature age

As for Lachie Murphy he played a year on our SANFL list before he was drafted, so he was already effectively in his second year by the time he played.

The club handled this poorly. Should have been given two years.



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[Scorpus]

The club handled this poorly. Should have been given two years.



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And that's the whole point really.

We didn't seem to give him enough time to develop AND we (allegedly) couldn't be bothered developing him in that time. Couple that with our extremely conservative selection policy which makes it nearly impossible to break into the team during the season and you can see how some younger players might be disgruntled.

If you don't feel like you are receiving adequate feedback to improve, and there is no obvious path into the team even if you do, that's one weakness of our development strategy for sure

 

[Geoffa32]

If players are good enough they can break into the team.

Jones is a great example of this.

Lachie Murphy another great example of this. Yes he had the extra year with us prior to drafting, but he broke into the side second year. First AFL year.

I would rather the young players earn their spot than gifted one.

Some guys need more SANFL games to learn to dominate games and learn the game plans as well as work on deficits in their game. It is a safe environment to work on these things.

Right now Fog is going through this, as Tex did. Fog also learning a different role, that we made.need him for soon I believe.

Doedee a great example of a player that learnt to dominate the SANFL build that confidence and skillset up then slot straight in and be an improvement on Lever.

Gooch would be playing now if not getting form after an injury. But he too had a decent grounding in our SANFL team.




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[jackster83]

If players are good enough they can break into the team.

Jones is a great example of this.

Lachie Murphy another great example of this.

Those two might have broken into the team, but they've both been played out of position.

Jones was drafted as a mid, but we won't play him there or even on the wing.

Murphy was drafted as a mid/half back and plays there in the SANFL, but we play him as a forward pocket.

Similarly last year with Gallucci coming in and playing mostly up forward.

We've seen Seedsman and Milera shuffled around to accomodate you-know-who.

I'm not even sure what Knight's role is atm. High half forward is his best position.

 

[Geoffa32]

If you look at our record of developing talent in the past five years it is hard to take seriously the claims made a guy who was just delisted not named for the VFL (not SANFL) side he is yet to play for.


We heard the same kind of things from Troy Menzel....delisted then playing for Tea Tree Gully.


Yes we may have stifled guys like Lyons, Wigg and even Keridge. But each one developed enough to get another go at an AFL club.

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[Geoffa32]

Those two might have broken into the team, but they've both been played out of position.

Jones was drafted as a mid, but we won't play him there or even on the wing.

Murphy was drafted as a mid/half back and plays there in the SANFL, but we play him as a forward pocket.

Similarly last year with Gallucci coming in and playing mostly up forward.

We've seen Seedsman and Milera shuffled around to accomodate you-know-who.

I'm not even sure what Knight's role is atm. High half forward is his best position.

Mackay is the issue. I can see him as HB depth and why he is in the side.

But tend to think Murphy could play that role as well (if not better) and we bring in Stengle to play forward pocket. Stengle is kicking goals. We need that.

Jones playing different roles to his preferred mid tells me they rate his footy IQ and ability highly. He must also have the confidence to not need the SANFL stint to build his game. I have suggested he go back to SANFL, without the intimate knowledge of the kind of guy he is.

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[Anzacpaul]

It's staggering to me that in all these years of upheaval at our club, we still have a midfield that is completely incapable of defending fast transition. It's almost baked in to the fabric of our club at this point.

What's the common denominator over this period?

Campo.

 

[ManInTheArena]

If you don't think a player is worth drafting, you don't go and draft them then given them no feedback for an entire season. You just don't draft them.

I don't think that would have really happened, at least not consistently.

At the end of the day he's not AFL material, he's blaming the AFC because he wasn't good enough even with an AFL coach for a dad, and he's not taking ownership of his own inadequacies. I don't know why we're even discussing it or care. Would we care if James Battersby was going around whining like a bitch because we didn't develop him enough?