Preview Lions 2019 Discussion

[Jivlain]

Negotiations in progress but nothing about Mitch. Start to wonder if he is valued at all.

I don't buy the he plays better if we keep him wondering. That's the bullshit you do to keep toddlers in line. He might have screwed up in the past but blind Freddy can see he has matured past the point of needing a stick and carrot approach.

Sheesh.

Pretty sure if he wasn't valued he'd have made a NEAFL debut by now. But starting negotiations with Mitch's manager is a bit of a dog-bites-man story, I'm pretty sure everyone knows he's prepared to sign up again. Stef obviously the Vic media have been pushing a narrative of will-he-won't-he for years now (despite the answer being consistent), and McStay is a talented and developing youngster. So those are both stories.

We'll probably find out about Mitch's new contract when we put out a press release describing the dried ink, or if he offhandedly mentions it in an interview.

 

[Dylan12]

Interesting that a few of the boys all laughed about Cam Rayner misbehaving when it came to eating chocolate (although the inference seemed to be his eating habits) in this week's Locker Talk:



I was meaning to mention it during the week, but I heard a really interesting segment on SEN this week about the work Brent Moloney (ex-Lion) did with Lachie Whitfield in improving his overall running i.e. power, speed, endurance etc. up on the Sunshine Coast over off seasons. Apparently Whitfield was referred to Moloney during his ban and now goes out of his way during his off-season to do extra work with Moloney. They also discussed in that segment that Moloney has done quite a bit of one on one work with a number of other players from other clubs in recent years over the off season(s), but no mention of any Lions players.

Most could recall the off-season Rockliff went to some boxing gym down in Vic and did a heap of work with amazing results. Whilst it is great to hear a number of our younger boys got together for running sessions this past off-season, it is evident that quite a few guys still don't have the fitness / tanks already to compete in the midfield and do the gut running / repeated running that a lot of opponents do, particularly the likes of Rayner, Lyons, Mathieson, Withderden etc. I really hope Rayner in particular does something big next off season and works hard on his fitness because it is sounds like a joke amongst his mates that he isn't disciplined or as professional as he should be.

In regards to the SEN segment, they did open the lines asking which one player from your club should go and train with Moloney and do what Whitfield did and there must've been at least 3 calls from Lions fans nominating Rayner.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Do we for sure if Rayner's corked thigh is still impeding him?

 

[briztoon]

There's been a couple of things nagging at me this past couple of weeks.

First, the amount of fan engagement the players have been doing midweek or the day before the game. Don't get me wrong, I really like that the club has gone out of the way to make the player accessible to members and fans. But I'd prefer to see the players focused on game preparation during the season.

Secondly, what has happened to the team since round 1. We played a real team orientated game. Hunted the ball. The effort and desire was there. Since then, it feels like a lot of players aren't doing the team things. The effort has noticeably dropped off. And I'm questioning the desire of some of the players, from some of the reactions during the game last week and last night.

Next, when will our forwards learn to create space and lead for a mark. And when will our mids hit up a player leading to open space. I am sick and tired of watching opposition teams small and mid sized forwards lead in to space and take uncontested marks in the forward 50. The few times I saw Cameron and Rayner actually gain separation and lead to a flank or pocket, they were ignored and the ball was bombed to contest at the top of the goal square.



I am wondering if some of the players are starting to tune out Fagan and/or Hodge. This becoming my biggest niggle.

Personally I feel the team needs a rocket up the backside as a whole, and some players might need a second one individually. I'm not sure who should be giving the team a bollocksing, Hodge or Fagan. My gut says it has to come from the playing group, and Zorko isn't the player to give it.


Finally, if players are being played while injured and not able to perform properly, and we have a very healthy list, this concerns me about how the coaching staff view the team depth.

Gardiner is obviously still affected by his PCL and is being beaten to often, and looks to be playing really hurt. It also looks like his shoulder is giving him trouble already.

If Rayner is still hampered by his corkie from three weeks ago, he needs a rest. If he's fully recovered, why has he regressed. He can't jump, take a mark an is obviously winded after really short bursts.


Rayner is close to becoming my whipping boy. If he smiles again when kicking a behind from what should be a relatively easy shot for a forward, and/or gives a thumbs up, when we're being flogged by the opposition, I'll ****ing start yelling fat boy or some other sh!t at him. I'm usually pretty quiet and not one to yell at players at games when we're being badly beaten, but for what ever reason, Rayners performance last night really p!ssed me off.

 

[Hollow Knight]

Rayner is close to becoming my whipping boy. If he smiles again when kicking a behind from what should be a relatively easy shot for a forward, and/or gives a thumbs up, when we're being flogged by the opposition, I'll ****ing start yelling fat boy or some other sh!t at him. I'm usually pretty quiet and not one to yell at players at games when we're being badly beaten, but for what ever reason, Rayners performance last night really p!ssed me off.

Philly sports fans in a nutshell! Just something about that city.

 

[briztoon]

Philly sports fans in a nutshell! Just something about that city.

Yeah, nah. I wouldn't boo Santa.

I know you're being light hearted, but I'm not normally this angry after a loss.

I believe it might have something to do with greater expectations for this season and selling our first round draft pick. More to do with selling our first draft pick obviously.

 

[James North]

High expectations will lead to disappointment.

 

[Tom14]

Weird that Rayner is having a slightly disappointing start to his second season, or isn't living up to some people's expectations. There should really be a term for players who have an indifferent second year

It's been a bad fortnight, and the week before wasn't that great despite the win. Let's let things play out a bit more before we start demanding the delisting of last year's number 1 pick or piling on him unnecessarily. Plenty of older players who need a rocket as much as Cam does.

Don't disagree that a spell in the twos is warranted though.

 

[trikster]

Yeah, nah. I wouldn't boo Santa.

They actually threw snowballs at him at the old Vet stadium

 

[Happy_Neale]

Was Rayner even that bad Thursday? Kicked two ripping goals at important times, was jumping at the ball and looking dangerous at times. Ball barely went to the forward line after half time so not sure what else he could have done, he and Hugh kicked half our goals for the whole night!

 

[MSB ROYS]

Was Rayner even that bad Thursday? Kicked two ripping goals at important times, was jumping at the ball and looking dangerous at times. Ball barely went to the forward line after half time so not sure what else he could have done, he and Hugh kicked half our goals for the whole night!

Thought Rayner played better as the game went on. Still some concerns but I would still pick him for the next game.

 

[MacMum]

I'm starting to wonder if Rayner and Witherden living together is a good thing. Rayner strikes me as a person who would be influenced by his surroundings, not necessarily easily led, but more taking the foot of the pedal a little bit if he has a like minded (easy going) housemate. Where as a person like Andrews (or someone as professional and responsible in life) in the house could keep him on track..

I don't particularly like Witherdens carefree attitude....smacks of laziness to me. Don't want Cam to go backwards.

 

[RU_]

I'm starting to wonder if Rayner and Witherden living together is a good thing. Rayner strikes me as a person who would be influenced by his surroundings, not necessarily easily led, but more taking the foot of the pedal a little bit if he has a like minded (easy going) housemate. Where as a person like Andrews (or someone as professional and responsible in life) in the house could keep him on track..

I don't particularly like Witherdens carefree attitude....smacks of laziness to me. Don't want Cam to go backwards.

At the end of the day, they are footballers and grown ups, we can’t go telling them who they can live with, it’s a bit over the top.

If Cam wants it bad enough he will make the changes he needs.

 

[lionshine]

Yeah some are being super harsh on Rayner. Played solely as a forward and kicked 2 goals. Not the worst return for a player in just his second season. Obviously not as dominant as he was at times last year but he will be fine long term. Going to be an absolute star. Have some patience.

 

[dlanod]

Most could recall the off-season Rockliff went to some boxing gym down in Vic and did a heap of work with amazing results. Whilst it is great to hear a number of our younger boys got together for running sessions this past off-season, it is evident that quite a few guys still don't have the fitness / tanks already to compete in the midfield and do the gut running / repeated running that a lot of opponents do, particularly the likes of Rayner, Lyons, Mathieson, Withderden etc. I really hope Rayner in particular does something big next off season and works hard on his fitness because it is sounds like a joke amongst his mates that he isn't disciplined or as professional as he should be.

You mean like...

Rayner whipped himself into shape with four gruelling boxing sessions a week, plus regular discussions with Club dietitian Pip Taylor, who encouraged him to cut out full-cream milk and bread.

https://www.lions.com.au/news/2019-03-12/rayner

 

[a mayes ing]

Yeah some are being super harsh on Rayner. Played solely as a forward and kicked 2 goals. Not the worst return for a player in just his second season. Obviously not as dominant as he was at times last year but he will be fine long term. Going to be an absolute star. Have some patience.

 

[Viceregal]

Weird that Rayner is having a slightly disappointing start to his second season, or isn't living up to some people's expectations. There should really be a term for players who have an indifferent second year

Not first year Carltons?

The year before third High Commissioners to UKs?

That thing that sometimes happens to players during their first even numbered year?

 

[bungalow_bill]

Was Rayner even that bad Thursday? Kicked two ripping goals at important times, was jumping at the ball and looking dangerous at times. Ball barely went to the forward line after half time so not sure what else he could have done, he and Hugh kicked half our goals for the whole night!

Think some need to ask themselves if Rayner were in another team would you prefer him in or out V the Lions? My answer is an emphatic out. Cam is a dangerous player even with limited possessions

 

[Lace Out]

Still a development year keep playing all kids,rotate them through from neafl if fit even if it sacrifices a win or two.Hodge should sit out 5 games to facilitate it.

 

[a mayes ing]

Think some need to ask themselves if Rayner were in another team would you prefer him in or out V the Lions? My answer is an emphatic out. Cam is a dangerous player even with limited possessions

We as a team need to do right by his development. Sometimes it is good for his development if he goes back to the 2's, gets his confidence up and works on some skills and a bit of a reality check that as well. In saying that, as a fan, l want him in the team to see him play.

 

[Gadzorks]

Our team improved during the off-season. There are more wins to come.

Many players put in extra training over their time off and have improved more than those that didn't and rayer didn't. I'm sure he would have completed his provided training sessions even though he over ate. He used his break as a break as he is entitled too, but I bet he won't do that again in the next off season.

The extra sessions help to a point but you cannot make up a couple of months by extra sessions in an already fully packed fitness program. He'll know that by now and be better in years to come because of it.

 

[Dylan12]

You mean like...

Rayner whipped himself into shape with four gruelling boxing sessions a week, plus regular discussions with Club dietitian Pip Taylor, who encouraged him to cut out full-cream milk and bread.

https://www.lions.com.au/news/2019-03-12/rayner

Doesn’t seem to have done much given he can barely run a game out and that’s playing predominantly forward so perhaps less boxing and way more running would be a lot more beneficial.

As for seeing a dietician; obviously I don’t know what he eats, but it is pretty evident from Locker Talk that he either doesn’t take it that serious or has a way to go otherwise I doubt the lads would be joking about him if it wasn’t an issue.

 

[briztoon]

Doesn’t seem to have done much given he can barely run a game out and that’s playing predominantly forward so perhaps less boxing and way more running would be a lot more beneficial.

As for seeing a dietician; obviously I don’t know what he eats, but it is pretty evident from Locker Talk that he either doesn’t take it that serious or has a way to go otherwise I doubt the lads would be joking about him if it wasn’t an issue.

This.

 

[trikster]

We currently sit 10th. If Hawthorn/Doggies/Tigers win we might end up at 13th, but percentage from 2nd!!!!!

 

[briztoon]

Watching Collingwood, teams like Essendon and Richmond, even Port. We need a serious injection of speed in to the team.

I know I've banged on about it for a couple of weeks now, as as have others. But I seriously believe some people are missing the point when myself and others talk about adding speed to the back line and midfield.


We're not just focussing on our inability to defend, and thinking having some faster players in defence would make us better defensively.

It might help, but as has been pointed out, when the opposition is slingshotting the ball out of their defensive 50 and our team structures are caught out, even fast players aren't going to stop such fast ball movement to often.


For me, adding a couple of faster players to the back 6 and midfield, will in turn improve our ability to break lines, move the ball fast and increase our ability to score as well.

Of course if we can't win the ball from centre bounces or stoppages, things are going to be hard and this needs improving to.


But right now, we are so ponderous bringing the ball out of our defensive 50, we let other teams set up defensively before we even look to move the ball on.

It's a worrying sign when Rich is your fastest offensive player out of defensive 50, both by foot and boot.


My concern is, if we can't fix our contested footy and give Neale more support, we're going lose a lot more matches from here on out, and our 3 and 0 start to the season will be a faded memory or what could have been be seasons end.


Teams I'm cautiously optimistic play against and possibly winning for the rest of the season, Sydney, Hawthorn and Carlton. That's it.