Religion Folau

[Slartibartfast]

Issy, the master of hypocrisy.

Mr Jahshan said the 2014 cover — which has reappeared on social media since the scandal broke — made Folau look “hypocritical” and “opportunistic”, and his views were “toxic masculinity at its worst”.
“Being divisive and inciting homophobia sets a really bad example. I’m not saying he should be censored — I don’t believe in censorship — but I do believe he must be held accountable,” he said.
“Let’s also make one thing clear — this is not an attack on freedom of religion. Folau is free to believe whatever he wants. But freedom of religion and speech does not equate to being immune to criticism or accountability.

“A person who can’t take full responsibility for the [way] they feel towards a particular group of people — and hides behind religion to justify it — is not someone you can trust at all. Especially if they’re high-profile figures like Folau.”
https://www.news.com.au/finance/bus...l/news-story/ebbd4096687736e3c544413a41e780e4

 

[Downhill Skier]

Issy, the master of hypocrisy.

Mr Jahshan said the 2014 cover — which has reappeared on social media since the scandal broke — made Folau look “hypocritical” and “opportunistic”, and his views were “toxic masculinity at its worst”.
“Being divisive and inciting homophobia sets a really bad example. I’m not saying he should be censored — I don’t believe in censorship — but I do believe he must be held accountable,” he said.
“Let’s also make one thing clear — this is not an attack on freedom of religion. Folau is free to believe whatever he wants. But freedom of religion and speech does not equate to being immune to criticism or accountability.
View attachment 661710
“A person who can’t take full responsibility for the [way] they feel towards a particular group of people — and hides behind religion to justify it — is not someone you can trust at all. Especially if they’re high-profile figures like Folau.”
https://www.news.com.au/finance/bus...l/news-story/ebbd4096687736e3c544413a41e780e4

Lol Toxic Masculinity is a phrase that gets thrown around by beta Male pussy bitches

 

[Slartibartfast]

Lol Toxic Masculinity is a phrase that gets thrown around by beta Male pussy bitches

Not keen to discuss Issy’s hypocrisy??

Sure did show your homophobia though.

 

[FrakturedHalo]

You are totally blind to the damage Issys comments have, you have complete disregard to the LGBIT community and it is you who expects people to conform to your wacko beliefs.
Ther harm that is done by leaders in the community saying flippant comments like you are going to hell just for being the person you were born as.
This is horrendous and your endorsement of this only Adds to their pain. Actually your attitude is abysmal.
At no stage have you showed one iota of compassion for the gay community , you have not even acknowledged them.

Workplace laws are well entrenched, you can not discriminate on the basis sexuality.
Issys is a public figure, his social media is well recognised in the public domain and as such part of his workplace environment. This was reinforced to him after he did this last year .

He made a choice to discriminate and he will pay the price.
YOUR lack of tolerance is typical of a religions who care only for themselves and alienate anyone who is not a part of it.
Issy could believe what he likes but when he wants to bring down people who have no say in their sexuality for the sake of him making a stand, his disregard for the suicide rates within this effected community oozes ignorance which you embrace .

Stop playing the victim, your defence of Issy is pitiful and warrants correcting. As for your interpretation of the laws, how can discriminating against gays be fair comment????

Honestly, I don’t know how you get on in the real world if you fly off the handle with this emotional business accusing people of all sorts of things they haven’t done. I was never defending Folau, I’ve already said I personally do not agree with the kind of statements he puts out on his Twitter. I will however defend his - and everyone’s - right to have their beliefs and not be vilified for them. It is a very sad state of affairs in this country if it has gotten to the point where anyone who is seen to publicly convey their religious views is automatically called out for being a bigot, just because they differ from the socially acceptable views were all dictated that we can only hold. The problem is most people don’t seem to know what bigoted means. Margaret Courts statements and views are bigoted, and rightfully should be condemned strongly. Folaus are worlds away from those. All we are doing now is transferring the oppression of one groups right to be what they want to be to another so that it’s now anyone who is religious dares not to air publicly any values or beliefs they hold for fear of being metaphorically stoned to death by social media. So yes I will defend not his views but his right to have them, as I will anyone’s. That’s what living in a tolerant society is about

 

[nobbyiscool]

Honestly, I don’t know how you get on in the real world if you fly off the handle with this emotional business accusing people of all sorts of things they haven’t done. I was never defending Folau, I’ve already said I personally do not agree with the kind of statements he puts out on his Twitter. I will however defend his - and everyone’s - right to have their beliefs and not be vilified for them. It is a very sad state of affairs in this country if it has gotten to the point where anyone who is seen to publicly convey their religious views is automatically called out for being a bigot, just because they differ from the socially acceptable views were all dictated that we can only hold. The problem is most people don’t seem to know what bigoted means. Margaret Courts statements and views are bigoted, and rightfully should be condemned strongly. Folaus are worlds away from those. All we are doing now is transferring the oppression of one groups right to be what they want to be to another so that it’s now anyone who is religious dares not to air publicly any values or beliefs they hold for fear of being metaphorically stoned to death by social media. So yes I will defend not his views but his right to have them, as I will anyone’s. That’s what living in a tolerant society is about

Ahhh yes, the real victims! Not the LGBTIQ+ people who've put up with this bigotry resulting in mental health issues and suicide for hundreds of years, but the poor oppressed religious zealots who's persecution of them is no longer accepted, and who might suffer from hurt feelings or a loss of employment as a result of their own actions!


Folau has shared his religious beliefs on social media dozens (+ dozens + dozens) of times - it makes up the vast majority of his twitter feed. And no one gave a shit about him expressing his religious belief. The only time it became an issue was when it was hate speech against LGBTIQ+ people.

So don't pretend it's about his religion rather than his hate speech.

 

[Downhill Skier]

Not keen to discuss Issy’s hypocrisy??

Sure did show your homophobia though.

I showed I am a homophobe by making a comment about toxic masculinity . Ok then.

You sum up everything wrong with today’s society though , constantly trying to make people victims and constantly outraged

 

[Downhill Skier]

Ahhh yes, the real victims! Not the LGBTIQ+ people who've put up with this bigotry resulting in mental health issues and suicide for hundreds of years, but the poor oppressed religious zealots who's persecution of them is no longer accepted, and who might suffer from hurt feelings or a loss of employment as a result of their own actions!


Folau has shared his religious beliefs on social media dozens (+ dozens + dozens) of times - it makes up the vast majority of his twitter feed. And no one gave a shit about him expressing his religious belief. The only time it became an issue was when it was hate speech against LGBTIQ+ people.

So don't pretend it's about his religion rather than his hate speech.

Another one that thinks if you belong to a minority group it automatically makes them a victim .

Why is it only an issue when it’s against the LGBTIQ community . Are you saying that community is full of pussies who are weak and can’t handle it .

You don’t hold that community in very high regard

 

[Slartibartfast]

I showed I am a homophobe by making a comment about toxic masculinity . Ok then.

You sum up everything wrong with today’s society though , constantly trying to make people victims and constantly outraged

If the hat fits , wear it. Comments like “beta Male pussy bitches” shows your homophobic religious fervour, have the courage to admit your beliefs . This was your response to Issy being a hypocrite which your conveniently ignored again.
[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, Fira Sans, Droid Sans, sans-serif]Why does Issy pose with gays only to garner public favour only to slag off at them down the track? No character.[/FONT]

 

[Slartibartfast]

Honestly, I don’t know how you get on in the real world if you fly off the handle with this emotional business accusing people of all sorts of things they haven’t done. I was never defending Folau, I’ve already said I personally do not agree with the kind of statements he puts out on his Twitter. I will however defend his - and everyone’s - right to have their beliefs and not be vilified for them. It is a very sad state of affairs in this country if it has gotten to the point where anyone who is seen to publicly convey their religious views is automatically called out for being a bigot, just because they differ from the socially acceptable views were all dictated that we can only hold. The problem is most people don’t seem to know what bigoted means. Margaret Courts statements and views are bigoted, and rightfully should be condemned strongly. Folaus are worlds away from those. All we are doing now is transferring the oppression of one groups right to be what they want to be to another so that it’s now anyone who is religious dares not to air publicly any values or beliefs they hold for fear of being metaphorically stoned to death by social media. So yes I will defend not his views but his right to have them, as I will anyone’s. That’s what living in a tolerant society is about

He did put them on to public social media hence our discussion here. How can you disagree with his twitter comments, he made them public . Nothing to do with him having personal beliefs. He went out of his way to publically vilify. He did make his thoughts public and that is what this thread is about.
He should be chastised for it and he will lose his job.

 

[Gough]

I was reminded of what Tom Ballard said when Thorpey came out, something along the lines of him not caring but the fifteen year old him would have done. Gay lads drop out of the sport the world over because of perceived and actual hostility towards them. Women's sport doesn’t blink an eyelid about a person's sexuality while incidents like this tend to suggest men's sport (diving excluded, I think it's compulsory in that sport) will continue to tie itself in knots when it comes to sexuality.

 

[FrakturedHalo]

He did put them on to public social media hence our discussion here. How can you disagree with his twitter comments, he made them public . Nothing to do with him having personal beliefs. He went out of his way to publically vilify.
He should be chastised for it and he will lose his job.

As I said, there’s no point even discussing anything with you as you simply don’t even want to consider anything different to the opinion that you hold which is he specifically singled out gay people and vilified them. Doesn’t matter whether he actually included a raft of other “groups” in there as well nor that he basically said he could save them (misguided as that may be), but to automatically jump on him labelling him all the things you and others have is being as intolerant and ignorant as what you are saying he is, doesn’t anyone seem to grasp that fact? If maybe people engaged in some dialect and sought to understand people’s intent and motivations before jumping up and down calling for people’s heads society would be a far better place, you get a far better result by engaging with people calmly and explaining what and how they have offended as it’s likely they didn’t even consider it would, and on the flip side they can explain to you their motivations and intent of why they said what they said, then you can gain an insight into “yeah ok, it didn’t come from a place of hate it was a clumsy and misguided statement that’s come from someone who probably has been brainwashed as the son of a pastor from a young age, but it’s not what I originally thought”. If we want this tolerant and inclusive society everyone holds up as the holy grail, then everyone is going to have to be prepared to listen to everyone, and accept there is going to be missteps and learnings from everyone. You don’t get anywhere from being militant thought police, apart from breeding more hate, both within yourself for others and the others that you target for not shaping up to your world views

 

[nobbyiscool]

Another one that thinks if you belong to a minority group it automatically makes them a victim .

Why is it only an issue when it’s against the LGBTIQ community . Are you saying that community is full of pussies who are weak and can’t handle it .

You don’t hold that community in very high regard

It's incredibly arrogant and insensitive of you to assume that everyone in this community has had the same lived experience of their sexuality as you apparently have based on what you've said here.

Gay, lesbian and bi people are 5 times more likely to attempt suicide that straight people, and 6 times more likely to have suicidal ideation.

Trans people are 7 times more likely to attempt suicide, and 8 times more likely to have suicidal ideation.

LGBTIQ+ people are more than twice as likely to be diagnosed with mental health disorders.

Your description of this community is "full of pussies who are weak and can't handle it" is ****ing disgusting and gross, and it's a view of mental health that hasn't been relevant for 30 years.

Greater understanding of issues relating to minorities isn't just a trendy fad - as a society we've gained greater understanding because it matters. Damning people to hell matters, especially when so much of this community carry demons of hearing similar things growing up at home, at school, at church, whatever.

 

[Downhill Skier]

If the hat fits , wear it. Comments like “beta Male pussy bitches” shows your homophobic religious fervour, have the courage to admit your beliefs . This was your response to Issy being a hypocrite which your conveniently ignored again.
[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Roboto, Oxygen, Ubuntu, Cantarell, Fira Sans, Droid Sans, sans-serif]Why does Issy pose with gays only to garner public favour only to slag off at them down the track? No character.[/FONT]

I don’t care if he is a hypocrite , I am also not religious and am included in the list of people who was going to hell according to his beliefs .

I don’t agree with him but if people are that offended by that then they need to buy a bag of cement.

It was a tweet that said things were a sin and if you didn’t repent that you were going to hell . If that upsets People they need to seek help

I hope he wins his appeal because the ARU are also hypocrites .

 

[WeetBixKid]

He deserves to cop flack, but it's pretty rich that he's lost his job for it. Isn't religious belief protected under the fair work act? It's not like he's calling for violence or for stripping away the rights of atheists, drunks, gays etc And his beliefs aren't exactly uncommon - hundreds of millions, if not a billion+ hold the same views. Imagine if all those people were to lose work for expressing themselves!

 

[Downhill Skier]

It's incredibly arrogant and sensitive of you to assume that everyone in this community has had the same lived experience of their sexuality as you apparently have based on what you've said here.

Gay, lesbian and bi people are 5 times more likely to attempt suicide that straight people, and 6 times more likely to have suicidal ideation.

Trans people are 7 times more likely to attempt suicide, and 8 times more likely to have suicidal ideation.

LGBTIQ+ people are more than twice as likely to be diagnosed with mental health disorders.

Your description of this community is "full of pussies who are weak and can't handle it" is ******* disgusting and gross, and it's a view of mental health that hasn't been relevant for 30 years.

Greater understanding of issues relating to minorities isn't just a trendy fad - as a society we've gained greater understanding because it matters. Damning people to hell matters, especially when so much of this community carry demons of hearing similar things growing up at home, at school, at church, whatever.

I am not assuming anything and I don’t view the LGBTIQ community in that way but I most certainly don’t believe that anyone should be classed as a victim just because of a group they belong to. Nowadays people are being taught they are victims just because of who they are.

 

[FrakturedHalo]

He deserves to cop flack, but it's pretty rich that he's lost his job for it. Isn't religious belief protected under the fair work act? It's not like he's calling for violence or for stripping away the rights of atheists, drunks, gays etc And his beliefs aren't exactly uncommon - hundreds of millions, if not a billion+ hold the same views. Imagine if all those people were to lose work for expressing themselves!

Maybe if Alan Joyce spent a bit less time and effort worrying about Folaus tweets and seeing as he feels so strongly about the issue and start applying the same pressure he is on RA on to Qantas’ premium commercial partners like Emirates or Qatar airlines who are actually owned by nation states who put to death people who are homosexual? Or would that just be in the too hard basket, Folaus a lower hanging fruit and easier to make an example of

If anyone he and RA are the biggest hypocrites of all in this

 

[deltablues]

Maybe if Alan Joyce spent a bit less time and effort worrying about Folaus tweets and seeing as he feels so strongly about the issue and start applying the same pressure he is on RA on to Qantas’ premium commercial partners like Emirates or Qatar airlines who are actually owned by nation states who put to death people who are homosexual? Or would that just be in the too hard basket, Folaus a lower hanging fruit and easier to make an example of

If anyone he and RA are the biggest hypocrites of all in this

Major sponsor Sydney Airlines is indeed the elephant in RA's room...

 

[nobbyiscool]

I don’t think that community is full of pussies at all but they are


I am not assuming anything and I don’t view the LGBTIQ community in that way but I most certainly don’t believe that anyone should be classed as a victim just because of a group they belong to. Nowadays people are being taught they are victims just because of who they are.

The notion of victim hood has nothing to do with this. It's about inclusivity and recognition, and about stamping out hate speech to aid those endeavours.

The only people talking about "victims" are the ones I alluded to in my first response to you - the ones claiming that Christians are somehow victims because their brand of hypocrisy, hatred and vilification is no longer accepted. Especially when they pick and choose which sections of the bible they take literally.

Who are the real idolators? Cos Christians didn't all independently decide which parts of the bible to take literally and all happen to land on the same conclusion - they got it from a false idol who claimed that gays = bad, but planting 2 kinds of seed or wearing clothes weaved of 2 different cloths = fine.

 

[FrakturedHalo]

Ahhh yes, the real victims! Not the LGBTIQ+ people who've put up with this bigotry resulting in mental health issues and suicide for hundreds of years, but the poor oppressed religious zealots who's persecution of them is no longer accepted, and who might suffer from hurt feelings or a loss of employment as a result of their own actions!


Folau has shared his religious beliefs on social media dozens (+ dozens + dozens) of times - it makes up the vast majority of his twitter feed. And no one gave a shit about him expressing his religious belief. The only time it became an issue was when it was hate speech against LGBTIQ+ people.

So don't pretend it's about his religion rather than his hate speech.

I never said religious people were victims here, nor LGBTIQ+ (sorry am I missing something here, what are the extra IQ+ at the end? Who are they meant to represent that the former four letters of the acronym don’t cover adequately?) as I don’t believe calling anyone nor any one group “victims” is a healthy nor a productive thing in a psychological nor sociological sense. But you have however pointed out something of interest “no one gave a shit about his views... (that included a number of other so called sinners)...until his hate speech was about LGBTIQ+ people”

For one thing, to label it “hate speech” is being both disingenuous and provocative I will say that and invite anyone to please point out specifically what in his tweet amounts to “inciting hate”, do it rationally and calmly and be sure before you do that you know the definition of what inciting hate means because it’s a fairly serious accusation and charge to make. It’s not just someone’s offended feelings

 

[WeetBixKid]

Maybe if Alan Joyce spent a bit less time and effort worrying about Folaus tweets and seeing as he feels so strongly about the issue and start applying the same pressure he is on RA on to Qantas’ premium commercial partners like Emirates or Qatar airlines who are actually owned by nation states who put to death people who are homosexual? Or would that just be in the too hard basket, Folaus a lower hanging fruit and easier to make an example of

If anyone he and RA are the biggest hypocrites of all in this

Spot on - it's a joke isn't it.

 

[FrakturedHalo]

The only people talking about "victims" are the ones I alluded to in my first response to you - the ones claiming that Christians are somehow victims because their brand of hypocrisy, hatred and vilification is no longer accepted. Especially when they pick and choose which sections of the bible they take literally.

Im not sure what thread you’ve been reading, but I don’t see anyone posting in here that religious people are victims of any sort, I think that’s your own subconscious bias colouring your perception and interpretation of what people have written.

And this is the thing, as I have posted earlier and I think on the GAJ boos thread - it’s not Christians who are “picking and choosing what sections of the bible they want to take literally or not” at all. It’s people who don’t understand the allegory and meaning behind the words and what it’s actually teaching who are the ones who take the verses literally and misconstrue and turn what they actually mean into something that they’re not entirely. This is a perfect example of this. And sadly in this day and age noone even appears to care if this is the case nor demonstrate any desire to listen to any alternative to what their own opinions are, erroneous or not.

 

[Downhill Skier]

The notion of victim hood has nothing to do with this. It's about inclusivity and recognition, and about stamping out hate speech to aid those endeavours.

The only people talking about "victims" are the ones I alluded to in my first response to you - the ones claiming that Christians are somehow victims because their brand of hypocrisy, hatred and vilification is no longer accepted. Especially when they pick and choose which sections of the bible they take literally.

Who are the real idolators? Cos Christians didn't all independently decide which parts of the bible to take literally and all happen to land on the same conclusion - they got it from a false idol who claimed that gays = bad, but planting 2 kinds of seed or wearing clothes weaved of 2 different cloths = fine.

Hate speech is just the jingo that is used when people don’t want to actually have a debate regarding issues and just want to shut someone down .

Inclusiveness is just another buzz word that has no real meaning in the real world. All these people who are crying about Israel’s intolerance while at the same time being completely intolerant of his views .

I am not going to discuss the pick and choose nature of religious types because I 100% agree with you and I think it’s hilarious but it’s not just religious types that are conflicted and hypocritical. Look at the SJW brigade who carry on about things like woman’s rights but then will call you a Islamophobe if you criticise Islam in regards to treatment of woman or a Transphobe if you are against biological men competing in woman’s sports or being able to use woman’s bathrooms .

Everyone picks and chooses their beliefs

 

[Slartibartfast]

As I said, there’s no point even discussing anything with you as you simply don’t even want to consider anything different to the opinion that you hold which is he specifically singled out gay people and vilified them. Doesn’t matter whether he actually included a raft of other “groups” in there as well nor that he basically said he could save them (misguided as that may be), but to automatically jump on him labelling him all the things you and others have is being as intolerant and ignorant as what you are saying he is, doesn’t anyone seem to grasp that fact? If maybe people engaged in some dialect and sought to understand people’s intent and motivations before jumping up and down calling for people’s heads society would be a far better place, you get a far better result by engaging with people calmly and explaining what and how they have offended as it’s likely they didn’t even consider it would, and on the flip side they can explain to you their motivations and intent of why they said what they said, then you can gain an insight into “yeah ok, it didn’t come from a place of hate it was a clumsy and misguided statement that’s come from someone who probably has been brainwashed as the son of a pastor from a young age, but it’s not what I originally thought”. If we want this tolerant and inclusive society everyone holds up as the holy grail, then everyone is going to have to be prepared to listen to everyone, and accept there is going to be missteps and learnings from everyone. You don’t get anywhere from being militant thought police, apart from breeding more hate, both within yourself for others and the others that you target for not shaping up to your world views

Why dont you engage with people an explain why Issy can break his contract, why he can discriminate on thr basis of sexuality, why he is such a hypocrite?
Stop trying to deflect, this is what the thread is about.
You try to normalise discrimination and then get upset when you get called out for it.
Pathetic.

 

[FrakturedHalo]

Why dont you engage with people an explain why Issy can break his contract, why he can discriminate on thr basis of sexuality, why he is such a hypocrite?
Stop trying to deflect, this is what the thread is about.
You try to normalise discrimination and then get upset when you get called out for it.
Pathetic.

Lol please, go and educate yourself on the definition of discrimination before you go bandying the term about and accusing people of it, or of supporting it. Noone can take your posts seriously

 

[FrakturedHalo]

Why are there so many plain morons on BF? To have an opinion and passionately but rationally and reasonably debate it is one thing no problem, but to continually be so pigheaded as to constantly argue a point that is completely erroneous and point the finger making accusations at people because you in fact have no idea at all what you are talking about is quite unbelievable. And then when it’s pointed out to you numerous times that you’re kinda wrong what you’re saying, you’ll argue with that too, instead of making a tiny effort to maybe check your facts?? I cant even imagine if anyone tried to do that in a courtroom, and this bloke tells me where have I been for the past 30 years and preaches to me about employment law

Just astounding