List Mgmt. 2025 List Management 📃

[WalshistheGOAT]

Moving the ball quick off half back is also an underrated element of fixing up our inside 50s.

We can't move the ball quickly enough to kick into a non clogged up fwd 50 ATM without Newman. Thus adding to why we bomb it in over and over.

 

[Blue since 72]

I see him as being ripe for delisting, seems to do some good things but then you look deeper, a player who doesnt get the ball, doesnt offer much, you dont hurt the opposition off half back when you average 11 possessions a game, same goes as a mid.

You obviously have no idea about footy loser, blah blah blah something something personal attack..

Nah just kidding, all good seeing it differently.

All will be revealed in the fullness of time.

 

[RAPPA]

The new coach of 2026 will probably have a bigger say on any movements regarding Charlie, H and/or Walsh

 

[BlueJet]

charred_fate what do you disagree with?

 

[blue healer]

I see him as being ripe for delisting, seems to do some good things but then you look deeper, a player who doesnt get the ball, doesnt offer much, you dont hurt the opposition off half back when you average 11 possessions a game, same goes as a mid.

Not sure you understand BF. Players are always far better when out injured.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Moving the ball quick off half back is also an underrated element of fixing up our inside 50s.

We can't move the ball quickly enough to kick into a non clogged up fwd 50 ATM without Newman. Thus adding to why we bomb it in over and over.

Boyd's absence has puzzled me for this exact reason, clear need for a line-breaking kick from half-back, yet he's barely played, and we he has we've not looked for him at ALL. Must be more going on behind the scenes/he's woefully out of form cos I cannot fathom why he's not being used otherwise.

 

[katmanblue]

Just for those who want to try and properly evaluate a 21 year-old small forward playing in a rubbish team, here's a stats comparison between Motlop and the current leading small forwards in the competition at the same age:

Jack Higgins in his 4th year = 10 games, 14.6 disposals, 1.2 shots at goal per game, 1.7 tackles
Jamie Elliott in his 3rd year = 20 games, 12.55 disposals, 2.3 shot at goal, 2.95 tackles
Paul Curtis in his 3rd year = 20 games, 9.47 disposals, 1.47 shots at goal, 2.33 tackles
Tyson Stengle in his 4th year = 12 games (none sub), 9.75 disposals, 1.41 shots at goal per game (8.9), 2.1 tackles
Bobby Hill in his 4th year = 12 games, 8.5 disposals, 1.54 shots at goal, 2.2 tackles
Jesse Motlop in his 4th year = 11 games, 10.1 disposals, 1.4 shots at goal, 4.1 tackles

That's really this list, and Motlop sits... quite comfortably in that group. Shots at goal is down but that is coming off a slow month - let's see where he gets to at the end of the year. The only one who really shades him at creating chances at goal is Elliott who is a much better mark than any of the others on the list.

At an absolute minimum lets not quit on him too soon. Hill, Stengle, Higgins all moved clubs at around the age Motlop is now, then hit full stride a year or two later. Motlop seems a good guy, and if nothign else, our small forward cupboard is bare and he seems a better prospect than Durdin and Evans, and probably White as well. Oh, and Fogarty, who is much older.

Oh, one last comparison is our own beloved Eddie Betts:
Year 4 = 18 games, 12.9 disposals, 1.9 shots at goal, 1.83 tackles, and ultimately a disappointing year. Despite 2008 Carlton being a lot better than 2007, his tackle numbers were well down and he didn't make the 'leap' anyone was hoping for. Seems to be a LOT of parallels there and he is arguably the GOAT small forward...

Every one of those guys had a weapon. Speed, over head marking etc which Jesse lacks. This is what they exploit later in their careers to improve output.

I'm not sure what weapon Jesse would use to get more dangerous.

 

[Blue since 72]

Boyd's absence has puzzled me for this exact reason, clear need for a line-breaking kick from half-back, yet he's barely played, and we he has we've not looked for him at ALL. Must be more going on behind the scenes/he's woefully out of form cos I cannot fathom why he's not being used otherwise.

He's not a line breaking back man though.

Yes he has a great kick but he plays close defender first and then generally a get out of jail kick, he doesn't run and carry and is no Dan Houston if you want a comparison.

We do need at least one more Saad type but Boyd is not that guy.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

He's not a line breaking back man though.

Yes he has a great kick but he plays close defender first and then generally a get out of jail kick, he doesn't run and carry and is no Dan Houston if you want a comparison.

We do need at least one more Saad type but Boyd is not that guy.

Newman doesn't do any of the above but his movement out of the back half is sorely missed this season. You don't have to run and carry, you don't have to kick the ball 60m, you just need to make a decision quick and take dangerous, attacking kicks into the corridor etc., and be able to pull them off. Think Zorko etc., just get in the right spots and make the right kicks. Boyd can absolutely do that.

 

[katmanblue]

Will go to Geelong and win a Brownlow and MVP knowing our luck.

If it results in a flag for us, I'd do that deal. Take these things as a whole, rather than individual transactions.

 

[katmanblue]

He's not a line breaking back man though.

Yes he has a great kick but he plays close defender first and then generally a get out of jail kick, he doesn't run and carry and is no Dan Houston if you want a comparison.

We do need at least one more Saad type but Boyd is not that guy.

This is because we already have enough defensive liabilities in the backline. Neither Saad or McGovern are defenders.

Look at how often Saad makes a desperate lunge type saves. He's consistently out of position or ball watching. Gov is similar.

 

[Blue since 72]

Just listened to the age article with Wilson etc and one of them mentioned they were talking to an x assistant coach and they mentioned that Carlton regularly play 8 crabs.

No names of course but we could probably figure out most of who they are referring to and while crab is a strong word are they wrong?

Personally I'm pretty firm now that as a collective the list is just not good enough. Regardless of who's coaching and what game style they implement I don't believe a number of our second tier players are good enough and if we have injuries to certain players (not the star players) we just can't cover with who we have available.

Think a Dan Houston

9

Dan Houston

Age

28

Ht

186cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.2

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.0

5star

MG

289.2

4star

D

17.6

4star

K

11.6

4star

HB

6.0

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.4

4star

MG

319.9

5star

D

16.6

4star

K

12.4

5star

HB

4.2

4star

M

7.0

5star

T

2.6

4star

MG

279.8

5star

type is exactly what we need as a start and from what I've read Voss wanted him. So be it if it was just not doable and I'm glad we got Jagga but picks like Evans just has a "oh well we've got a spot to fill just grab this guy" type feel to it. We seem to have a plethora of small forwards who present as mainly inconsistent and average.

Think our defensive future is quite bright and the middle is mostly good enough. One guy in there who does shit me a bit is Acres and in particular his kicking. If he isn't doing amazing last second saves he's pretty average and wingers need to be able to deliver the ball well by foot and he's never been that.

Additionally is our development of young players where it should be and have we even recruited the right players?

Wright taking the reins will be very interesting particularly in terms of the footy dept and which players keep their jobs.
I hope he is ruthless in the right areas.

 

[blue healer]

Wright taking the reins will be very interesting particularly in terms of the footy dept and which players keep their jobs.
I hope he is ruthless in the right areas.

Hang on, is it the CEO's job to decide who goes and who comes into our team?

Pretty sure that the straw that broke the camel's back on here with Liddle was when he walked Ellis through without SOS knowing about it. One thing to have the CEO involved in changing and appointing the coaching staff but another altogether having him control the playing list. For better or worse that's up to the coach and list manager, they are the one's who die on that hill.

 

[Juddernaut08]

I see him as being ripe for delisting, seems to do some good things but then you look deeper, a player who doesnt get the ball, doesnt offer much, you dont hurt the opposition off half back when you average 11 possessions a game, same goes as a mid.

he was playing well as a defensive forward though, not really a half back.

 

[Blue since 72]

Hang on, is it the CEO's job to decide who goes and who comes into our team?

Pretty sure that the straw that broke the camel's back on here with Liddle was when he walked Ellis through without SOS knowing about it. One thing to have the CEO involved in changing and appointing the coaching staff but another altogether having him control the playing list. For better or worse that's up to the coach and list manager, they are the one's who die on that hill.

Apologies should have written it better. I was more coming from a changes in the footy dept angle with on flow to the playing group out of those appointees.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Think our defensive future is quite bright and the middle is mostly good enough. One guy in there who does shit me a bit is Acres and in particular his kicking. If he isn't doing amazing last second saves he's pretty average and wingers need to be able to deliver the ball well by foot and he's never been that.

It's a weakness for sure.

Lots of the best wingmen are fantastic kicks, so keeping their width means the rest of the team can reliably look for them and know they're going to see something good from it.

Acres isn't a great pass so we'll often find him in space, only for him to bomb it long or kick a loopy pass.

At his best, his ground coverage, contested marking, defensive accolades and tendency to pop up for goals means he's an asset. But we have to compensate around that with other 'designated kickers'. This means we need to look for ways to free up the opposite wingman, or guys like Cerra and Elijah.

 

[Blue since 72]

This is because we already have enough defensive liabilities in the backline. Neither Saad or McGovern are defenders.

Look at how often Saad makes a desperate lunge type saves. He's consistently out of position or ball watching. Gov is similar.

By Saad type I mean run and carry. Agree he can often find himself in the wrong spots particularly in relation to his direct opponent and or lack of reading the play.

 

[Blue since 72]

Newman doesn't do any of the above but his movement out of the back half is sorely missed this season. You don't have to run and carry, you don't have to kick the ball 60m, you just need to make a decision quick and take dangerous, attacking kicks into the corridor etc., and be able to pull them off. Think Zorko etc., just get in the right spots and make the right kicks. Boyd can absolutely do that.

Kicks to the corridor generally only happen if the opposition allow you to and yes Boyd is someone who could pull that off. However we lack a lot of drive out of our back half, particularly if Saad isn't doing it so for mine we absolutely need that run and carry out of defense.

No issue with an opposing view.

 

[charred_fate]

charred_fate what do you disagree with?

Soz - at work.

H has always lacked strength in the contest. I’ve banged on about it for years - I think he’s a lovely guy but he is a very meek 202cm key forward. It’s uninspiring. Goes to ground far too easily, gets pushed out of contests far too easily.

On top of that, he an awful decision maker. Also been banging on about this for years - see his two horrendous handballs last weekend as prime examples.

He has physical attributes but lacks nous and isn’t such a naturally gifted footballer imo.

Charlie is a brilliantly skilled player, has athleticism, stands strong in a contest and is clearly an all-round more gifted footballer.

Charlie can do more but I still think he appears more exposed defensively compared to other KPFs bc our smalls are so poor/slow defensively… and also, bc they are so poor offensively, defensive issues are more pronounced. H is not better defensively imo either - can almost count on H giving a free kick away when he tries to defend.

In my mind, they are worlds apart.

It’s a shame we’ve not seen either of them in well setup forward lines though, with the support of gun smalls.

 

[ferrisb]

Jesse Motlop - I don't see it.

Admittedly still young and has time on his side, but I don't think he has the tools to succeed. My #1 biggest fear is that he's not one-touch.

He's stepped up his pressure game this year, which I love. But he's not quick, clean or super skilled. I can't see him making it as a permanent small forward or a high half-forward.

Tell me I'm wrong. Please.

 

[Soapy V]

Get a decent game structure and system and we can step up in 2026.

IMO this side can be Top 4

B: Boyd Silvagni McGovern
HB: Wilson Weitering Jagga

Foll: Pittonet Hewett Lord
C: Walsh Cripps Lucas

HF: Williams McKay Elijah
F: Kemp HOK Durdin

Int: Newman Cerra Ollie Acres White Saad Cincotta Motlop O'Farrell Carroll................


If we can add names like Bergman B.Campbell Rosas and others we are a very different side

 

[ferrisb]

B: Boyd Silvagni McGovern
HB: Wilson Weitering Jagga
Foll: Pittonet Hewett Lord
C: Walsh Cripps Lucas
HF: Williams McKay Elijah
F: Kemp HOK Durdin
Int: Newman Cerra Ollie Acres White Saad Cincotta Motlop O'Farrell Carroll................

You're assuming Charlie is gone?

 

[JK61]

Jesse Motlop - I don't see it.

Admittedly still young and has time on his side, but I don't think he has the tools to succeed. My #1 biggest fear is that he's not one-touch.

He's stepped up his pressure game this year, which I love. But he's not quick, clean or super skilled. I can't see him making it as a permanent small forward or a high half-forward.

Tell me I'm wrong. Please.

If you look at the way he played in 2023 (his 2nd year in the system) you can see that he has the tools - clean and skilled, but being inexperienced, he lots of quiet periods.

He now looks devoid of confidence and too focussed on defensive pressure which has stifled his natural attacking flair and. Instincts.

Best remedy imo is a few weeks in the VFL to get his confidence back.

 

[Blue Pulse]

Have to say i’m looking forward to Cincotta coming back into the seniors and building some form.

Bigger body with pace, good decision making, neat skills and can play multiple roles well including defensive half forward who can hurt you in offence to tagger to half back.

I reckon along with Newman Cin has been our most important out.

Agree, but will the match committee pick him once he is ready, they didn't last year in the elim final

 

[Soapy V]

You're assuming Charlie is gone?

Possibly. Just working on how it will look if we lose TDK and one other