List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion

[martinson]

So what you're saying is Carlton will bring him in for $1m pa?

Well they don't have any room for him in the backline with the 3 other mill plus stars they have down there.

Maybe they can rotate him off the forward flank.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

would love to keep starce

Losing Starce allows Fletcher to go back

Starce at present understandably isn't the same Starce before his injury enforced lay off.

Bless you all.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

i think from our backline fletcher and wilmot have traits id want in a midfielder before starcevich.

don't recall him ever training with the mids or us even using him as a rotation there. i would be surprised if a club offered him a big pay day to come play midfield given he would be a relatively unknown commodity there and has the concussion baggage as well.

I wonder if anyone has learned from Carlton throwing bags of cash at Zac Williams or if someone is going to repeat that mistake.

 

[Tom14]

i think from our backline fletcher and wilmot have traits id want in a midfielder before starcevich.

don't recall him ever training with the mids or us even using him as a rotation there. i would be surprised if a club offered him a big pay day to come play midfield given he would be a relatively unknown commodity there and has the concussion baggage as well.

Maybe starce could be a good defensive-minded midfielder, but I don't see the point. He's an A+ lockdown who uses the ball well, can take an intercept mark, etc.

Generally I just don't believe media when they talk about 'playing more midfield time' as a reason for a free agent to leave. Usually its just code for 'wants more money and years.'

 

[Lazza16]

We don't know who will still be at the club once Tassie opens its treasure chest so a tad folly to predict who will be here in a couple of years. Apparently Tasmania getting into action chatting with player managers as we type.

 

[pod17]

For mine, I’d had to lose Starce. Since he became a senior regular - among the best lockdown defenders in the comp without looking too far into the stats - he’s made us a better side.

I do think both him and Answerth provide a really nice balance to our back 6, which when they are both in the side, has allowed for Wilmot, Coleman and Zorko to display their attacking flair.

That being said, whilst it may be unfortunate for him, we’d be negligent to offer more than we have especially given we already have paid overs (to date) for a defender in Doedee that is yet to debut. To my knowledge, the terms offered to Starce vary by way of years, and it’s probably highly likely the salary is under what he hoped. Therefore, he’s probably exploring the market with our blessing to see if he can extract more value in his RFA year.

Working in our favour is the fact that I’d be highly surprised if another club paid him much more than what we are putting forward given he is likely to be forced into retirement should he be concussed again in the near future. The supporter meltdowns at the Bombers or North would be something else (and mighty entertaining).

For us, these are the delicate list management decisions that need to be made at the point my end, especially with the youth we possess who will need to be paid far more next time their contracts roll around. We are also in the position where we must bring in Allen on dollars that by all reports need to trigger band 1 compensation for the Eagles. Whilst not as good, we’ve got options to cover Starce going if he chooses to, and I think the net result of getting Allen and losing Starce makes us a better side by the slimmest of margins - which can be all the improvement needed to salute sometimes.

All that being said, I hope he decides to stick around to be part of our flag push over the next few years as he’d be an important part of it.

 

[Elitek]

i think from our backline fletcher and wilmot have traits id want in a midfielder before starcevich.

don't recall him ever training with the mids or us even using him as a rotation there. i would be surprised if a club offered him a big pay day to come play midfield given he would be a relatively unknown commodity there and has the concussion baggage as well.

Do believe he could become a good mid in similar fashion to Yeo. But good point re: concussions x unproven in that role for a club pursuing him.

 

[Sproj]

What he will need to factor though is that if he does leave to play midfield, he’ll need to accept that it was for false promises when he is immediately put into a backline after signing.

 

[dlanod]

don't recall him ever training with the mids or us even using him as a rotation there.

From memory there was a few game stint years ago where we rotated him through due to injuries, and the net result was underwhelming. He kept improving as a defender so we never reverted to that again.

 

[LongLion]

Ironically Morris said last night that we've met with him and his management since his injury and reconfirmed our interest in him.

Hope it wasn't fages he was meeting with

 

[mpal6]

Losing those two and potentially gaining Draper makes me sad

Draper won't come.

Draper is a big name in Melbourne
Draper is a "biggerrr" name in Adelaide
Draper is big
Draper is so big he cant fit in small towns

 

[Sunny Land]

Maybe starce could be a good defensive-minded midfielder, but I don't see the point. He's an A+ lockdown who uses the ball well, can take an intercept mark, etc.

Generally I just don't believe media when they talk about 'playing more midfield time' as a reason for a free agent to leave. Usually its just code for 'wants more money and years.'

I think Starc’s value has significantly dropped since his most recent concussion issue & offers are not as inviting as they were before that. Sadly he is only 1 more serious hit to the head from stepping away from the game which ALL clubs would be well aware of. In addition to that, I would be confident (but not 100% sure) that any new contract with him would be conditional to any concussion issues he may have. He’s an awesome player who gives it 100% so I wish him all the best in whatever decision he makes. (Fingers crossed that is continueing his career @ Lions.)

 

[Dalions]

Draper won't come.

Draper is a big name in Melbourne
Draper is a "biggerrr" name in Adelaide
Draper is big
Draper is so big he cant fit in small towns

Ticks aaalll the boxes!

 

[dlanod]

Draper won't come.

Draper is a big name in Melbourne
Draper is a "biggerrr" name in Adelaide
Draper is big
Draper is so big he cant fit in small towns

Adelaide has a lot of small names, like Smith and Jones and Brown.

Queensland has longer names like Dearden and Munster and Papalii.

No wonder he wants to take his six letter surname elsewhere.

 

[T Rick]

I think Starc’s value has significantly dropped since his most recent concussion issue & offers are not as inviting as they were before that. Sadly he is only 1 more serious hit to the head from stepping away from the game which ALL clubs would be well aware of. In addition to that, I would be confident (but not 100% sure) that any new contract with him would be conditional to any concussion issues he may have. He’s an awesome player who gives it 100% so I wish him all the best in whatever decision he makes. (Fingers crossed that is continueing his career @ Lions.)

It is really sad what has happened to Starce, particularly when I think of the Rankine hit on him off the ball and that concussion in particular. I would highly doubt that any player contract would be able to be written in such a way as to protect a club from a player being concussed and forced by injury out of the game.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

So in this post I discussed the advanced stats behind the top rucks, and found that the biggest stat correlation to their dominance was in ruck hard ball gets (taking possession of the ball directly out of the ruck). The limitation was that not all rucks attend the same amount of ruck contests.

Despite Draper looking decent in the stats analysis in this comment, he's still not someone I want to sign because he'll cost a decent amount and has already hit his prime so he doesn't have that much improvement left.

If Oscar can't play another season, my preference is to just go into next year with Fort and Smith battling it out for #1, and drafting Lachlan Monteath to see if he can develop into an AFL standard player. In three VFL games he's averaging 20 hitouts and a goal. Had one game with 29 disposals and another with 9 tackles. Even his forward craft looks handy.

117K views · 567 reactions | Remember the name Lachlan Monteath! The Bombers big man is having a debut to remember. 🎥: Watch live and free on 7mate in Victoria and 7plus nationally | Victorian Football League (VFL)

Remember the name Lachlan Monteath! The Bombers big man is having a debut to remember. 🎥: Watch live and free on 7mate in Victoria and 7plus nationally

www.facebook.com

131K views · 613 reactions | Lachy Monteath goes BANG ‼️ 🎥: Watch live and free on 7mate and 7plus | Victorian Football League (VFL)

Lachy Monteath goes BANG ‼️ 🎥: Watch live and free on 7mate and 7plus

www.facebook.com

 

[Nathan Barley]

Despite Draper looking decent in the stats analysis in this comment, he's still not someone I want to sign because he'll cost a decent amount and has already hit his prime so he doesn't have that much improvement left.

If Oscar can't play another season, my preference is to just go into next year with Fort and Smith battling it out for #1, and drafting Lachlan Monteath to see if he can develop into an AFL standard player. In three VFL games he's averaging 20 hitouts and a goal. Had one game with 29 disposals and another with 9 tackles. Even his forward craft looks handy.

117K views · 567 reactions | Remember the name Lachlan Monteath! The Bombers big man is having a debut to remember. 🎥: Watch live and free on 7mate in Victoria and 7plus nationally | Victorian Football League (VFL)

Remember the name Lachlan Monteath! The Bombers big man is having a debut to remember. 🎥: Watch live and free on 7mate in Victoria and 7plus nationally

www.facebook.com

131K views · 613 reactions | Lachy Monteath goes BANG ‼️ 🎥: Watch live and free on 7mate and 7plus | Victorian Football League (VFL)

Lachy Monteath goes BANG ‼️ 🎥: Watch live and free on 7mate and 7plus

www.facebook.com

Would surely take a top 15 pick and passing on Annable to get Monteath

 

[mpal6]

Would surely take a top 15 pick and passing on Annable to get Monteath

Nah, he's an overager - 19 year old so must've gone undrafted last year.

I think he'll be there come 30s pick.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Despite Draper looking decent in the stats analysis in this comment, he's still not someone I want to sign because he'll cost a decent amount and has already hit his prime so he doesn't have that much improvement left.

Can't say I understand this. You'd rather recruit someone who hasn't met their potential? Isn't the risk that they might not ever get there? Isn't the proven performer a better bet?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Can't say I understand this. You'd rather recruit someone who hasn't met their potential? Isn't the risk that they might not ever get there? Isn't the proven performer a better bet?

It all depends on the price, but in general, yes, I want someone who hasn't already hit their peak, unless their peak is a demonstrated A grade player like Dunkley was.

The teams that win premierships usually have a large part of their 22 playing at A grade level. Of course it's great to get more proven A graders in, since they usually keep playing at that level unless they hit the ravages of injury and age. But no team has the salary cap or trade capital to bring in a complete 22 of proven A graders. Josh Dunkleys don't come around every year. So we need to recruit players who are capable of overperforming their salary and/or trade cost.

We started contending for flags for many reasons, but a pretty big catalyst was because we paid a B grade price for a 23 year old Charlie and he turned into an A grade player, and an A grade price for a 25 year old Lachie and he turned into an A+ grade player. Then we turned the injury prone, unmotivated Joe into the player he was capable of becoming. All of them easily outperformed what we spent on them.

The problem comes when a B grader gets paid like an A grader and they don't make the leap to that level. Carlton screwed themselves this way with Zac Williams. So yes, there's a risk, and the price we pay should reflect that risk.

In this case, Draper is a C+ grade player who is apparently going be paid at a B+ grade level. That isn't good value considering he'll be 27 before he plays his next game. I'm fine with paying that price for someone like Ned Moyle (though he's not on the market) because he's already a B grader at 23 and can easily become an A grader, outperforming his salary. Draper, not so much. I think the best case scenario is he plays up to that salary, and even that isn't guaranteed. I'd rather stick with Fort and Smith who are at least on low salaries.

 

[rye]

i think we should offer day a 1 year extension

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Would surely take a top 15 pick and passing on Annable to get Monteath

Nah, he's an overager - 19 year old so must've gone undrafted last year.

I think he'll be there come 30s pick.

I agree with mpal6, he'll be there in the 30s, maybe even in the 50s. Teams tend to undervalue overage players. Sam Davidson made it to 51 and Sam Closehy to the rookie draft, and both look like steals right now. And some rucks get undervalued too, like Alex Dodson going at 53 last year.

 

[Sunny Land]

It is really sad what has happened to Starce, particularly when I think of the Rankine hit on him off the ball and that concussion in particular. I would highly doubt that any player contract would be able to be written in such a way as to protect a club from a player being concussed and forced by injury out of the game.

100% are

 

[lionsrules]

I have been on the "I don't want Draper team" for a while now. After watching Oscar last night..... I've gone to "we need a ruckman what can we get"?
He did not look mobile at all. Seemed to be in the way and read very well by an ordinary Carlton outfit.

 

[Tom14]

I have been on the "I don't want Draper team" for a while now. After watching Oscar last night..... I've gone to "we need a ruckman what can we get"?
He did not look mobile at all. Seemed to be in the way and read very well by an ordinary Carlton outfit.

Pray Adelaide gets Draper and take O’Brien imo.