Oppo Camp Non-Eagles Discussion 2025

[Seadog]

I think Zorko had a better season than Bailey Dale

31

Bailey Dale

Age

29

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

1.6

4star

MG

117.4

2star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

1.7

3star

MG

117.4

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.0

4star

, Dale does not defend......at all.

 

[Lunchtime]

When Gawn made AA in 2020 and then again in 2021 that's when I stopped caring about the award. It has no reflection on the quality of a player's season, simply the perception.

I haven't checked the stats but did Gawn have not so good seasons during that 2020-2021 period??

 

[eaglespremiers]

I haven't checked the stats but did Gawn have not so good seasons during that 2020-2021 period??

I did not think he was particularly good or a worthy All Australian, no. Certainly compared to Naitanui who in 2021 was statistically without peer.

 

[Lunchtime]

Question has to be asked: why is Nick Daicos starting on the bench? Like seriously its a legitimate question.

Did the All Australian selectors think that other midfielders had a better season than him?

I guess this is the unique aspect of as i call them "Opinion Awards".

In the opinion of the coaches, Bailey Smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

25

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

and Noah Anderson

15

Noah Anderson

Age

25

Ht

192cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

6.0

4star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

6.0

3star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

CL

0.0

1star

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

2.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

CL

0.0

1star

won the AFLCA Champion Player of the Year award in a tie.

In the opinion of the players, Nick Daicos won the AFLMVP award.

In the opinion of the All Australian selectors, Nick Daicos is placed on the bench in the team.

Now we wait for the Brownlow medal, the key stakeholder this time being the umpires. We will see who they have voted for in their opinion because the votes have been done by them.

On a side note, it was good to see Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

32

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

finish 5th in the AFLMVP award.

 

[DanWCE]

What the consensus cut off for games missed to still get AA?

I didn't follow along closely but saw Sam Taylor

15

Sam Taylor

Age

26

Ht

198cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.1

4star

MG

130.5

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

2.5

1star

HB

5.5

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.5

3star

MG

60.8

1star

D

8.6

3star

K

3.0

1star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.2

2star

T

2.8

5star

MG

110.8

2star

got a jacket. I recall he missed a chunk of footy this year. Looked it up, played 18 so missed 20%+ of the season

 

[bzparkes]

What the consensus cut off for games missed to still get AA?

I didn't follow along closely but saw Sam Taylor got a jacket. I recall he missed a chunk of footy this year. Looked it up, played 18 so missed 20%+ of the season

Need to play 18 games, I'm pretty sure.

 

[Ilkka Sinisalo]

I haven't checked the stats but did Gawn have not so good seasons during that 2020-2021 period??

Averages:
Gawn:
2020: 14 games, 16 disposals, 4.5 marks, 0.1 goals, 32.7 hit outs, 2.5 tackles, 139.8 supercoach
2021: 22 games, 18.4 disposals, 5.2 marks, 0.5 goals, 32 hit outs, 2.6 tackles, 120.7 supercoach

Nic Nat:
2020: 16 games, 10.7 disposals, 0.7 marks, 0.3 goals, 29.4 hit outs, 2.3 tackles, 110.5 SuperCoach
2021: 22 games, 15.2 disposals, 1.5 marks, 0.1 goals, 31 hit outs, 2.9 tackles, 115.2 supercoach

Gawn is better in almost every category and had more Brownlow votes each year.

Saying Nic Nat was “statistically without peer” those seasons seems quite a stretch, to put it mildly. I’m sure he was better at hitouts to advantage and probably at production per minute played, but we all know that Nic Nat was the best tap ruckman and elite when he was on the ground, but Gawn was better around the ground and able to play more of each game due to his superior fitness and health.

 

[bzparkes]

I think Zorko had a better season than Bailey Dale, Dale does not defend......at all.

Nobody at the Western Bulldogs defends.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Averages:
Gawn:
2020: 14 games, 16 disposals, 4.5 marks, 0.1 goals, 32.7 hit outs, 2.5 tackles, 139.8 supercoach
2021: 22 games, 18.4 disposals, 5.2 marks, 0.5 goals, 32 hit outs, 2.6 tackles, 120.7 supercoach

Nic Nat:
2020: 16 games, 10.7 disposals, 0.7 marks, 0.3 goals, 29.4 hit outs, 2.3 tackles, 110.5 SuperCoach
2021: 22 games, 15.2 disposals, 1.5 marks, 0.1 goals, 31 hit outs, 2.9 tackles, 115.2 supercoach

Gawn is better in almost every category and had more Brownlow votes each year.

Saying Nic Nat was “statistically without peer” those seasons seems quite a stretch, to put it mildly. I’m sure he was better at hitouts to advantage and probably at production per minute played, but we all know that Nic Nat was the best tap ruckman and elite when he was on the ground, but Gawn was better around the ground and able to play more of each game due to his superior fitness and health.

Honestly I couldn't disagree with your post more and the statistics you have provided are mostly irrelevant. I honestly care even less about Brownlow votes than All Australian selections at this point.

Here's a couple of post of mine at the end of the 2021 season regarding Naitanui's year and its statistical impact:

I feel like I should bump this thread following the end of our 2021 season.
I think that this season has been far and away Naitanui's most complete and impactful season.
He ended the season as the no. 1 rated player in the AFL.
He was also ranked no. 1 in the competition for HOs to advantage, hard ball gets and score launches.
He will end up ranked fourth for total clearances and just out of the top 10 for contested possessions.

Out of all the rucks in the AFL he was ranked no 1 for HOs to advantage (by a large margin), HO to advantage rate (by some margin), clearances (by a huge margin), hardball gets (far ahead), goal assists, score launches, contested possessions, inside 50s and bounces.
He was also ranked no 2 for pressure acts, ground ball gets, total hit outs, score involvements and 3rd for tackles and metres gained.
He was actually pretty decent in contested marking as well (despite the criticism) and ranked 10th of the top 25 rucks.

In total he averaged 31.2 HOs, 12.3 HOs to advantage, 7.2 clearances, 15.2 disposals, 12.4 contested possessions, 4 score launches, 0.95 contested marks, 0.5 goal assists, 13.4 pressure acts, 3 tackles, and 211 metres gained per game. Basically the only thing missing from his game this season was goals.

He will be our B&F very comfortably and he should get another AA guernsey.
I don't know what else he could've done this year to emphasize his impact as the elite ruck of the competition.

Gawn doesn't play any more time in the ruck than Naitanui, he just rests forward more.
He actually attended, on average, 4 less ruck contests than Naitanui per game.

And what was the added result of Gawn resting forward and playing additional minutes? 3 disposals (if that is relevant for you, one of which is typically a clanger), 0.7 marks in the forward 50 and 0.4 goals more than Naitanui per game.
Interestingly he still trailed Naitanui in goal assists and inside 50s and didn't have any more score involvements than Naitanui for the season despite tag teaming with Jackson for rests up forward.

I suppose you could argue that he also contributes intercept marks (+1.5 on Naitanui per game) in a defensive role but, gee, there's only a handful of rucks who average more than one intercept mark a game and while it's nice I have a hard time accepting that's an essential role for a ruckman. I think it's much more important for a ruckman to provide defensive pressure around the contest (i.e. tackles and pressure acts etc...).

Given that Gawn falls far behind Naitanui for HOs to advantage (+2 on Gawn per game), clearances (+2.7 on Gawn per game), score launches (+1 on Gawn per game) and hard ball gets it's hard to argue that his contributions either as a resting forward or floating back defensively make up much of the substantial difference around the stoppages. Particularly when the most meaningful stats you can point to is +0.4 goals and +1.5 intercept marks. I would accept the contested marking differential to be a more compelling argument, but while important, it is again not absolutely vital, and Naitanui is above average for the top echelon of ruckman in contested marking anyway. He just trails Gawn who was the elite ruckman in this area this year.

The vast majority of teams typically play with a second ruck, with a few exceptions. It's just that West Coast's second rucks are often so average and our midfield so pedestrian that it becomes more noticeable when Naitanui isn't out there. Also they are often quite poor in any other role, so it's backup or bust.

Also this idea that he doesn't offer anything around the ground isn't supported by the stats we have available.
In the top 20 ruckmen (based on HOs to advantage), Naitanui averages the most inside 50s, he is first for forward 50 ground ball gets, he is fourth for total disposals, he is third for metres gained, he is sixth for tackles inside forward 50, he is 8th for 1%ers, he is 9th for rebound 50s, he is tenth for spoils, he is tenth for defensive half pressure acts (one short of being equal eighth) and he is 13th in intercept possessions. Now how much you read into those stats is up to you, however, he is certainly average or above average in all of these that would attest to the fact that he is involved in the game around the ground.

 

[jesterwester]

Late to the party on AA.

Vlastuin got ripped off big time. Had an amazing season under the pump every week. Would take him over battle every single day of the week.

Not sure why Jezza was captain with Dawson as Vice when Dawson is an actual captain of a club. It’s unusual.

 

[squashface]

Honestly I couldn't disagree with your post more and the statistics you have provided are mostly irrelevant. I honestly care even less about Brownlow votes than All Australian selections at this point.

Here's a couple of post of mine at the end of the 2021 season regarding Naitanui's year and its statistical impact:

Goddamn I miss seeing NN out there, more than any of our recently retired players probably.

One of the best players of all time.

 

[eaglespremiers]

Goddamn I miss seeing NN out there, more than any of our recently retired players probably.

One of the best players of all time.

Still my no. 1 favourite Eagle, which most would know given my posting history.
Feel like fortune robbed him on several occasions (including being a premiership player) and yet he still managed to rebuild for two absolutely elite seasons where he was the no. 1 ranked player in the AFL. Absolutely carried our midfield like no one else I've seen since Cousins in the late 90s. Would've loved to see 1-2 seasons out of him before he was struck down with his career-ending injuries.

 

[fullbull]

Need to play 18 games, I'm pretty sure.

Bont only played 17 games this season, and made it.

 

[Bender_]

I've never heard of a game limit before.

17 games for Bont that were below his usual standard. Fwoof.

 

[WCEswift]

Just on the legends game how funny is it all the commentators realised at about half time without Gorringe and prime train the stadium would be much more empty, everyone except BT who continuously hung shit on both guys and the other commentators squirmed when he did

 

[Farang83150]

Kn stupid flogs, Cameron captain is utterly kn stupid, should be Dawson 100%.

 

[Tugga27]

Kn stupid flogs, Cameron captain is utterly kn stupid, should be Dawson 100%.

Yep
Dawson 100%

You could even make a case for Gawn, but not Cameron.

 

[TY24]

Unfortunately, I don't think they did cop a roasting when Hurn was overlooked.

without going back and finding articles, quotes, tweets from X etc, I can distinctly remember the same arguments being made when they overlooked Hurn for Buddy. The whole ‘if you’re not a club captain how can you be AA captain’ argument raged for a bit there.

Hurn was pretty universally respected by most in the AFL.

 

[Boohemian]

TBH - the AFL doesn't give a shit. The outrage garnered from not picking an established club captain as captain of the imaginary best Australian representative team only serves to generate clickbait and engagement. That's how the world works now. Ignore it.

 

[southcoast]

View attachment 2410828

Battle, Gawn, Heeney, Pickett, Bontempelli, Serong and to a lesser extent Rowell all meh choices. Gawn seems like a bit of a default choice. Bont with a token spot like Pendlebury and Selwood used to be. Heeney in to make sure Swans aren't a complete failure. Pickett? Blergh

We woz robbed.

 

[Cuzz09]

Haven't rated the AA team ever since Cummings was missing in 1999

How the F can the Coleman medallist not make it?

Still boils me

 

[Cuzz09]

How did Shuey go for the Vics last night?

 

[Goroyals22]

What the consensus cut off for games missed to still get AA?

I didn't follow along closely but saw Sam Taylor got a jacket. I recall he missed a chunk of footy this year. Looked it up, played 18 so missed 20%+ of the season

16 game is the cut off.. I think it got brought in at the start of last year…

As far as the aflpamvp or anything the players vote on they are irrelevant.. most played state they don’t watch other games so how could they bemoans awards to win. The players vote on what they hear in the press.

 

[Wooshaaaa]

Averages:
Gawn:
2020: 14 games, 16 disposals, 4.5 marks, 0.1 goals, 32.7 hit outs, 2.5 tackles, 139.8 supercoach
2021: 22 games, 18.4 disposals, 5.2 marks, 0.5 goals, 32 hit outs, 2.6 tackles, 120.7 supercoach

Nic Nat:
2020: 16 games, 10.7 disposals, 0.7 marks, 0.3 goals, 29.4 hit outs, 2.3 tackles, 110.5 SuperCoach
2021: 22 games, 15.2 disposals, 1.5 marks, 0.1 goals, 31 hit outs, 2.9 tackles, 115.2 supercoach

Gawn is better in almost every category and had more Brownlow votes each year.

Saying Nic Nat was “statistically without peer” those seasons seems quite a stretch, to put it mildly. I’m sure he was better at hitouts to advantage and probably at production per minute played, but we all know that Nic Nat was the best tap ruckman and elite when he was on the ground, but Gawn was better around the ground and able to play more of each game due to his superior fitness and health.

Nah you forgot stats

Contested possessions and clearances. Go include them and reevaluate your statement. Nicnat was a clearance machine.

 

[ziad]

Late to the party on AA.

Vlastuin got ripped off big time. Had an amazing season under the pump every week. Would take him over battle every single day of the week.

Not sure why Jezza was captain with Dawson as Vice when Dawson is an actual captain of a club. It’s unusual.

Its a Vic media gig. move on