List Mgmt. 2025 List Management Discussion

[GenericUsername202]

lol at Essington fans thinking Ridley for Bailey is fair

Wouldn’t trade him as he will be important for our three peat next year, but I suppose if I had to name a price - their 2 first round picks and Ridley will have to do.

I would trade Bailey this year. I don't want to lose him, but signing him on long term for 1.3m would be a poor list management decision. If he wants the money, then so be it. I wouldn't hold any grudges considering we go out of our way as a club to poach players from other clubs as well. Let's get two firsts out of any club and use it to keep improving our list. Plus, Zac is a star, but he would be earning 300k a year more than mcluggage. That wouldn't sit right with me. What seperates a poorly run club and a well run club is how well they use their resources. You don't see Geelong paying overs for players (although they do give them secret farm deals) and i don't see us doing the same.

 

[knaf]

I would trade Bailey this year. I don't want to lose him, but signing him on long term for 1.3m would be a poor list management decision. If he wants the money, then so be it. I wouldn't hold any grudges considering we go out of our way as a club to poach players from other clubs as well. Let's get two firsts out of any club and use it to keep improving our list. Plus, Zac is a star, but he would be earning 300k a year more than mcluggage. That wouldn't sit right with me. What seperates a poorly run club and a well run club is how well they use their resources. You don't see Geelong paying overs for players (although they do give them secret farm deals) and i don't see us doing the same.

I generally agree with what you are saying, however you have to bear in mind Annable likely to be bid on between 3 to 6 (this is what those who follow the draft pool closely are saying, I have no idea). This mean unless we get picks one or two we are likely to lose Bailey for nothing or second pick in the deal at best. Maybe this would allow us to pick up Prinable and use our late first round on a decent prospect, but not an ideal list management strategy.

I am now firmly in the “try to keep Bailey camp” even if it involves a seven figure deal.

 

[Lions2Good]

I would trade Bailey this year. I don't want to lose him, but signing him on long term for 1.3m would be a poor list management decision. If he wants the money, then so be it. I wouldn't hold any grudges considering we go out of our way as a club to poach players from other clubs as well. Let's get two firsts out of any club and use it to keep improving our list. Plus, Zac is a star, but he would be earning 300k a year more than mcluggage. That wouldn't sit right with me. What seperates a poorly run club and a well run club is how well they use their resources. You don't see Geelong paying overs for players (although they do give them secret farm deals) and i don't see us doing the same.

I don’t disagree with your logic there, it’s just the Essendon fans on their board really think a Bailey for Ridley swap is fair.

And that is just ridiculous!

 

[mattsmob]

I generally agree with what you are saying, however you have to bear in mind Annable likely to be bid on between 3 to 6 (this is what those who follow the draft pool closely are saying, I have no idea). This mean unless we get picks one or two we are likely to lose Bailey for nothing or second pick in the deal at best. Maybe this would allow us to pick up Prinable and use our late first round on a decent prospect, but not an ideal list management strategy.

I am now firmly in the “try to keep Bailey camp” even if it involves a seven figure deal.

The idea would certainly be future first round picks from Essendon which are most likely going to be very valuable

 

[Sproj]

I don't want to lose Bailey and I don't think we will. We likely have Neale, Cameron and a few other older guys on reducing deals. Clugs, Berry, Andrews, Rayner, Wilmott (I think) and a few other key pieces locked up for ages on good deals for the club. I don't think we will need to offer him 1.3, I reckon 1 million would be enough and if he is worth that. If we lose Ah Chee and Starc as well, we don't want to weaken another area of the field.

 

[jfn]

I'm in two mind about Bailey. Obviously he would be great for the club if he was to sign a longer contract, but I doubt he would get more than 800 to 900K from Brisbane.
If Essendon are willing to offer 1.3M, what are they willing to trade for him? That sort of salary commands at least two 1st round picks plus some. This would have to include the Ridley deal.
If he wants to go purely for the money then they have to let him go, only if Essendon pay up big.
If he goes to free agency next year, his trade or compensation value would be reduced.
I don't want to down play the great year Bailey has had this year, but he is one of many A-grader in the Brisbane team.
If he was to go to Essendon he would not have the protection of have as many elite payers around him and would be a greater chance of being tagged each week. I'm not sure he would deal with a Lachie style tag week in week out. He has done some nice things this year when he has played limited time in the midfield, but I would think Essendon would want him as a permanent mid. I'm not sure if he can be as effective there.

 

[Tom14]

I'm in two mind about Bailey. Obviously he would be great for the club if he was to sign a longer contract, but I doubt he would get more than 800 to 900K from Brisbane.
If Essendon are willing to offer 1.3M, what are they willing to trade for him? That sort of salary commands at least two 1st round picks plus some. This would have to include the Ridley deal.
If he wants to go purely for the money then they have to let him go, only if Essendon pay up big.
If he goes to free agency next year, his trade or compensation value would be reduced.
I don't want to down play the great year Bailey has had this year, but he is one of many A-grader in the Brisbane team.
If he was to go to Essendon he would not have the protection of have as many elite payers around him and would be a greater chance of being tagged each week. I'm not sure he would deal with a Lachie style tag week in week out. He has done some nice things this year when he has played limited time in the midfield, but I would think Essendon would want him as a permanent mid. I'm not sure if he can be as effective there.

There is no point getting first round picks this year with Annable bid matching swallowing it up. Just keep him for another season!

 

[Tom14]

Don't know why I'm bothering to reply to every post considering trading bailey. Just swap Zac's name in for Hugh's in these posts from last year:

Was about to make the exact same point. $1 million/year under the new salary cap isn't the same as it was. More and more players will earn a million plus, and the cost to replace McCluggage with an equivalent player would be at least that much money, plus whatever draft picks were required.

Total no-brainer to re-sign at that price.

Trading up might even get us a player like Hugh McCluggage!

 

[p4p1]

Having a lockout of first round F/S or academy prospects just ends up punishing those kids for being too good.
Outside of being a team that is currently benefitting from it and it not being mentioned when Victorian clubs were building strong lists off the back of those selections. That is my main gripe. I think it has to be all or nothing.
Do the Ashcroft brothers have less of a right to play for their fathers club than the Camporeale brothers because the Ashcrofts were much higher rated coming into their draft years?

Because every club has the right to F/S prospects+NGA, I wonder if all that ends up happening is a league wide gentlemen's agreement that nobody bids until the first bid of the second round. Clubs like St Kilda may kick up a stink about it, but the clubs that go against it then open themselves up to retribution by either clubs refusing to trade picks so they can get the points, clubs bidding where the kid is rated when they know the prospective club can't match etc.

I know the AFL says everything is above board and there is no draft tampering but if my life has taught me anything, it is that in a small industry, you are going to get what you give and your relationships with others outside of your organisation are just as important as those within your organisation. the Donald Trumps of the world believe that every deal done has to have a winner and a loser but there is plenty of good deals when all parties walk away as winners.

 

[DevRoboGun]

Essendon are close to the least desirable club ever to play for right now... If Bails decided to leave he would 100% have offers from 1m to 1.3m from other clubs

 

[pod17]

He is from the NT, and has lived in Queensland since. I am hoping the weather is going to be a deterrent for him to move south!!

 

[briztoon]

He is from the NT, and has lived in Queensland since. I am hoping the weather is going to be a deterrent for him to move south!!

Played school football in SA.

 

[notliondown]

Carlton are about to bottom out at the exact same time they have a highly rated father son.

Essendon are about to bottom out at the exact same time they have a highly rated father son, and have a heap of decent nga kids.

Port are about to bottom out at the exact same time they have highly rated nga kids in consecutive drafts.

Will be interesting what each club does with their first round picks.

The one thing we know the AFL are brilliant at is nuance and consistency...

The bidding system is far from prefect and needs some tinkering but just knowing the power brokers keep fawning to the same voices over and over gets tiring.

I do wonder if Swanny will have any luck in applying some common sense now but I fear he will be swimming against a very big tide.

 

[notliondown]

Bailey has had an outstanding year no question... and we know what he's capable of.

But it was only last year he was droppable at various stages. True it was probably a blip, but prior to that he was sporadic most of the time. This year has been his most consistent year by a long way.

The trouble with recency bias at a time like this means everyone offers over - on the hope he maintains or even improves his current level. My fear is that he can't - or won't. And I have a real problem offering him more than our mainstays.

I don't want to lose Bailey, but it seems to me other clubs will inevitably strip us of players at some point and he just might be one we lose.

Bailey will need to decide whether it's just about the money at the end of the day.

 

[briztoon]

The one thing we know the AFL are brilliant at is nuance and consistency...

The bidding system is far from prefect and needs some tinkering but just knowing the power brokers keep fawning to the same voices over and over gets tiring.

I do wonder if Swanny will have any luck in applying some common sense now but I fear he will be swimming against a very big tide.

I’ve never been in the camp that Swann will look after the Northern clubs.

While here, he was responsible for the Brisbane Lions, and as such, acted in that manner.

Now he’s at the AFL, he’s responsible for the whole game, and what might be “good” for the whole competition may not be “good” for the Northern clubs.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

I’ve never been in the camp that Swann will look after the Northern clubs.

While here, he was responsible for the Brisbane Lions, and as such, acted in that manner.

Now he’s at the AFL, he’s responsible for the whole game, and what might be “good” for the whole competition may not be “good” for the Northern clubs.

Like Noble found out at a lower level, the pressure of power brokers and empire protecting bureaucrats can quickly stifle good and sensible intentions.

 

[braddsey]

Having a lockout of first round F/S or academy prospects just ends up punishing those kids for being too good.
Outside of being a team that is currently benefitting from it and it not being mentioned when Victorian clubs were building strong lists off the back of those selections. That is my main gripe. I think it has to be all or nothing.
Do the Ashcroft brothers have less of a right to play for their fathers club than the Camporeale brothers because the Ashcrofts were much higher rated coming into their draft years?

Because every club has the right to F/S prospects+NGA, I wonder if all that ends up happening is a league wide gentlemen's agreement that nobody bids until the first bid of the second round. Clubs like St Kilda may kick up a stink about it, but the clubs that go against it then open themselves up to retribution by either clubs refusing to trade picks so they can get the points, clubs bidding where the kid is rated when they know the prospective club can't match etc.

I know the AFL says everything is above board and there is no draft tampering but if my life has taught me anything, it is that in a small industry, you are going to get what you give and your relationships with others outside of your organisation are just as important as those within your organisation. the Donald Trumps of the world believe that every deal done has to have a winner and a loser but there is plenty of good deals when all parties walk away as winners.

Totally agree with the first paragraph.
No way in hell a gentleman's agreement would exist to not bid on either of the Ashcroft boys until the second round.

 

[Tom14]

Bailey has had an outstanding year no question... and we know what he's capable of.

But it was only last year he was droppable at various stages. True it was probably a blip, but prior to that he was sporadic most of the time. This year has been his most consistent year by a long way.

The trouble with recency bias at a time like this means everyone offers over - on the hope he maintains or even improves his current level. My fear is that he can't - or won't. And I have a real problem offering him more than our mainstays.

I don't want to lose Bailey, but it seems to me other clubs will inevitably strip us of players at some point and he just might be one we lose.

Bailey will need to decide whether it's just about the money at the end of the day.

Was he actually droppable last year or did you just THINK he was droppable?

 

[Darren Downunder]

I’ve never been in the camp that Swann will look after the Northern clubs.

While here, he was responsible for the Brisbane Lions, and as such, acted in that manner.

Now he’s at the AFL, he’s responsible for the whole game, and what might be “good” for the whole competition may not be “good” for the Northern clubs.

I don’t mind that, Briz.
AFL HQ should be looking after the whole game.
The trouble is, the AFL seems to not care about the game
They only seem to care about money
So they try to attract eyeballs,
And pander to big Victorian clubs

 

[martinson]

Was he actually droppable last year or did you just THINK he was droppable?

The issue was that he was carrying a injury for the majority of the year.

This year he's been completely injury free for the first time in a while. So he's able to take genuine midfield minutes and is moving with a lot more confidence and freedom.

He's only 25 . I wouldn't be interested in offloading him under any circumstances . I suppose if someone offers him the world and he wants to go then we have a problem.

 

[Tom14]

The issue was that he was carrying a injury for the majority of the year.

This year he's been completely injury free for the first time in a while. So he's able to take genuine midfield minutes and is moving with a lot more confidence and freedom.

He's only 25 . I wouldn't be interested in offloading him under any circumstances . I suppose if someone offers him the world and he wants to go then we have a problem.

Yep, and that’s a next year problem. Beyond the goals the burst running from D50 to deliver inside 50 is something you just can’t easily replace.

Game is becoming more about transition rather than contest and he and Clug are the drivers for us (along with zork).

 

[notliondown]

I’ve never been in the camp that Swann will look after the Northern clubs.

While here, he was responsible for the Brisbane Lions, and as such, acted in that manner.

Now he’s at the AFL, he’s responsible for the whole game, and what might be “good” for the whole competition may not be “good” for the Northern clubs.

Yeah I guess you are right... I guess I hope that he now has a perspective that few others down there do. Whether that holds any sway or even if he choses to act on it, time will tell. We live in hope.

 

[HereIGoAgain]

Doesn't the club have to decide how much more he is worth than a McCluggage or a Morris soon enough? That is a this years problem. No way that this isn't already being worked on even at a preliminary stage.

 

[notliondown]

Was he actually droppable last year or did you just THINK he was droppable?

Well it depends if you put any weight on the BF experts But to answer your question, yes at times I did think he could have been dropped and I know I wasn't alone. Even Dom Fay lamented his form. But we also know that just because he wasn't didn't mean much either as Fages will always stick fat.

And lets not forget that his previous cycles through the midfield were less than extraordinary.

Don't mistake my desire to, or doubt whether I see the benefit in, keeping Zac. I love what he brings to the team.

But with Fletcher, Motty, possibly Marshall, all ready made replacements for his role I just question whether or not he's worth upsetting team management for if the offers are borderline ridiculous.

 

[notliondown]

Yep, and that’s a next year problem. Beyond the goals the burst running from D50 to deliver inside 50 is something you just can’t easily replace.

Game is becoming more about transition rather than contest and he and Clug are the drivers for us (along with zork).

I guess that's where we differ