Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[ferball]

I know it was about Pauline and Barnaby?

How do you know they have been contacted by members within their own party for action?

It usually occurs.

Take personal bias out of it regarding those two for a single second.

Those two are a joke.

As if they give a **** about the Jewish community.

 

[Saint]

And Labor is actually best placed to do this. It's happening in their electoral heartland, and if the LNP were to in power and tried to do it, they'd be faced with cries of racism. But I suspect they'll be too timid.

Gee, I wonder who was in Government when this young person was radicalised prior to 2019, which is when his first radicalisation was noted.

Albo has blood on his hands because he did nothing about un-radicalising the people radicalised under the Abbott/Turnbull Governments three Prime Ministers ago. /s

The Liberal Party spent its whole 9 years in Government trying to work out ways to allow more discrimination. Frydenberg, Morrison, Abbott, they all wanted certain forms of discrimination to be made legal as long as it was a "statement of faith". So they would have legalised hate speech against Jews and Muslims by these extremist religious idiots.

Now people just want to legalise discrimination against Muslims specifically.

The LNP have quicksand for moral ground in this debate.

 

[Saint]

Agree theres genuine emotion and its understandable but what tips it into the political also is that the sole target of his spite is not the gunmen (who rarely get a mention) but the PM

Or the clerics, or extremist groups. They're focusing their grief on the Prime Minister who isn't a leader's butt-hole, but he's at least got a moral leg to stand on when it comes to acceptance of discrimination. Unlike Joyce, Hanson, Frydenberg, Howard etc.

It seems like they're just waiting to say out loud.

"If you would just let us discriminate against Muslims, none of this discrimination against Jews would have happened"

 

[faible]

Or the clerics, or extremist groups. They're focusing their grief on the Prime Minister who isn't a leader's butt-hole, but he's at least got a moral leg to stand on when it comes to acceptance of discrimination. Unlike Joyce, Hanson, Frydenberg, Howard etc.

It seems like they're just waiting to say out loud.

"If you would just let us discriminate against Muslims, none of this discrimination against Jews would have happened"

This is exactly what some people want.

There's posters in here who've never given a shit about the Jewish community until suddenly they have the opportunity to discriminate against Muslims using this tragedy. It's so transparent.

They don't actually care about solving or addressing anything, they just want to be able to punch down on Muslims.

 

[ferball]

Agree theres genuine emotion and its understandable but what tips it into the political also is that the sole target of his spite is not the gunmen (who rarely get a mention) but the PM

Exactly.

The gunmen have personal responsibility for murdering those people when they carried out their terrorist attack.

No one else does. No one made the decision then pulled the triggers on those guns.

 

[QuietB]

Really tasteless from Frydenburg.

When Ley was happy to point the blame at the PM, but then said there's people still in hospital it's not the right time to talk about gun control... That tells you all you need to know about the Liberal party.

All you need to know about the Liberal Party can be summarised by the fact they have rolled out John Howard and then Josh Frydenberg.

There is not one single current Liberal with any authority to speak on anything.

And the Liberal Party continue to pretend that Abbitt, Turnbull and Morrison never even happened.

If we did not live in a country where the primary role of the media was to promote the Liberal Party we would not hear from the Liberals at all.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Surprised trump hasn't given her a high level government position.

Don't dismiss anything dopey Dozing off donny will, as she on the same intelligence level as him -10.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

On the flip side, we see some Jewish leaders and even ‘charities’ supporting settler terrorists and an extreme far right war machine.

So yes, the problem is extremists of all sorts.

wait........did we just agree on something?

 

[1990crow]

All you need to know about the Liberal Party can be summarised by the fact they have rolled out John Howard and then Josh Frydenberg.

There is not one single current Liberal with any authority to speak on anything.

And the Liberal Party continue to pretend that Abbitt, Turnbull and Morrison never even happened.

If we did not live in a country where the primary role of the media was to promote the Liberal Party we would not hear from the Liberals at all.

The irony being they'd probably poll better if we didn't know their policies via the media.

 

[Del203211]

Albanese not invited to Matilda’s funeral … but Ley is, absolutely cooked.

 

[Juddism]

i imagine this is a major reason why jews in Australia have the shits.

they are seeing extremist Islamic clerics calling openly for death in the western suburbs of Sydney and a government/police force too limp dicked to do anything about it.

monitor them, shut them down if they do it and **** them off or imprison them.

you call for Sharia law or Jihad, 5 years in prison. Stop it at the source before nitwit low IQ kids like this shooter get indoctrinated into extremist forms of Islam.

If i can see this shit on Instagram, wtf is ASIO and the authorities doing?

As an ALP voter myself I think Albo is the wrong man for the job, he's too nice, and at times likes this is not nice that is needed, it's hard all..LNP shouldn't be seeking to capitalise on this either, but ALP needs someone who will walk the walk and talk the talk..

 

[Saint]

As an ALP voter myself I think Albo is the wrong man for the job, he's too nice, and at times likes this is not nice that is needed, it's hard all..LNP shouldn't be seeking to capitalise on this either, but ALP needs someone who will walk the walk and talk the talk..

It's too early for Albo to tell Bibi and Frydenberg and Howard to STFU. But in a months' time if they're still going, he needs to grow a spine and say what needs to be said.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Wikipedia is probably the most reliable source online these days.

Its open source, demands references that can be reviewed by anybody and keeps logs of all the changes to its pages and the discussions surrounding those changes. Anybody can work it and anybody can criticise decisions made and that criticism stays there in its talk pages.

Its the only mainstream site that isn't actively trying to monetise your search for information online.

Hear, hear.

 

[kalex6251]

This is exactly what some people want.

There's posters in here who've never given a shit about the Jewish community until suddenly they have the opportunity to discriminate against Muslims using this tragedy. It's so transparent.

They don't actually care about solving or addressing anything, they just want to be able to punch down on Muslims.

muslims today ...... members of the lgbtqi community tomorrow .... eventually they will come after members of the jewish community

their existential/ontological struggle with difference will be ongoing

 

[QuietB]

Criticising Israeli policy is legitimate. Explaining away Jewish concern about antisemitism by framing it as political disagreement is not.

Criticising Albanese for the rise of anti-semitism when the cause of that rise in anti-semitism is the Israeli government and their actions in the Middle East is unreasonable.

This is the fundamental problem.

Israel the state wants to be allowed to act with complete impunity, and when that has consequences they want the responsibility of those consequences to lie with someone else - in this instance Albanese.

As it stands I am am being spammed with endless insta posts about Jewish people not being welcome in restaurants all over the world, we have football riots all over Europe when Israeli teams travel to the point that many of those matches are now played without spectators (those riots were 100% proved to be instigated by Israeli's in Amsterdam), we have European countries withdrawing from Eurovision left and right because Israel is not excluded, 2/3's of Nations have a commitment to arrest Netanyahu if he visits their country, it is widely accepted that Israel has committed a genocide in Gaza, yet;

Everyone but Israel is responsible for anti-semitism.

Jews around the world have a right to feel threatened because rising anti-semitism is real, it is rising and it is happening everywhere.

But directing your anger at Albanese or Ireland and Sth Africa for their actions in the international courts or frankly directing your anger towards anyone other than the Israeli government is 100% misdirecting your anger.

Netanyahu and his government are 100% responsible for any rising anti-semitism.

 

[Bluelegs]

As an ALP voter myself I think Albo is the wrong man for the job, he's too nice, and at times likes this is not nice that is needed, it's hard all..LNP shouldn't be seeking to capitalise on this either, but ALP needs someone who will walk the walk and talk the talk..

I'm glad that he hasn't risen to the bait. The pointscoring from the other side of politics has been cynical, exploitative and gross.

If there was a failure in government it was a failure of our gun control policy and a failure of law enforcement as these men were under ASIO's noses and determined not to be a threat.

If Albanese is to blame for this then Scomo is to blame for the Christchurch shooting.

 

[Bloods86]

Criticising Albanese for the rise of anti-semitism when the cause of that rise in anti-semitism is the Israeli government and their actions in the Middle East is unreasonable.

This is the fundamental problem.

Israel the state wants to be allowed to act with complete impunity, and when that has consequences they want the responsibility of those consequences to lie with someone else - in this instance Albanese.

As it stands I am am being spammed with endless insta posts about Jewish people not being welcome in restaurants all over the world, we have football riots all over Europe when Israeli teams travel to the point that many of those matches are now played without spectators (those riots were 100% proved to be instigated by Israeli's in Amsterdam), we have European countries withdrawing from Eurovision left and right because Israel is not excluded, 2/3's of Nations have a commitment to arrest Netanyahu if he visits their country, it is widely accepted that Israel has committed a genocide in Gaza, yet;

Everyone but Israel is responsible for anti-semitism.

Jews around the world have a right to feel threatened because rising anti-semitism is real, it is rising and it is happening everywhere.

But directing your anger at Albanese or Ireland and Sth Africa for their actions in the international courts or frankly directing your anger towards anyone other than the Israeli government is 100% misdirecting your anger.

Netanyahu and his government are 100% responsible for any rising anti-semitism.

It's fair to say the Israeli government and military's actions, and their and others insistence that "Israel" is synonymous with "Jews", are contributing to the rise in anti-semitism, but 100% is over the top.

People are still responsible for their thought processes and actions, and with the added rise of (non Islamic) far-right political movements that aren't really sympathetic to Palestinians at all, anti-semitism is going to increase.

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Agree theres genuine emotion and its understandable but what tips it into the political also is that the sole target of his spite is not the gunmen (who rarely get a mention) but the PM

Joshy really should not have gone down that path.

Bloke was in the last Coalition government who murdered its own citizens via robodebt and was derelict in its constitutionally required duty of quarantine during covid, plus the shitshow that was vaccines.

I wonder if Josh would take any personal responsibility for those deaths.

 

[Elixuh]

Re-launching your political career at a funeral after Australia’s worst terrorist attack is the holy grail of political grifting.

He’s a disgrace.

 

[Elixuh]

What brings you to that suggestion?

I must say Chief, I did enjoy your discussion around the crusades early in the thread. We need to circle back to that topic.

 

[ElectricG]

This is the fundamental problem.


Netanyahu and his government are 100% responsible for any rising anti-semitism.

So the people who aren’t doing the anti-semitism are the ones responsible for anti-semitism. It just beguiles belief the way some of you justify this. Would you say that Muslims are responsible for what happened in Christchurch? By the same logic you must blame ISIS, the Taliban and other Islamic terrorists for what that psychopath did. But I’ll hazard a guess that you don’t.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Wikipedia is probably the most reliable source online these days.

Its open source, demands references that can be reviewed by anybody and keeps logs of all the changes to its pages and the discussions surrounding those changes. Anybody can work it and anybody can criticise decisions made and that criticism stays there in its talk pages.

Its the only mainstream site that isn't actively trying to monetise your search for information online.

Wikipedia can have anybody contribute.
If you do not have people criticising and factchecking a page, then the page is not reliable.

 

[DapperDon]

So the people who aren’t doing the anti-semitism are the ones responsible for anti-semitism. It just beguiles belief the way some of you justify this. Would you say that Muslims are responsible for what happened in Christchurch? By the same logic you must blame ISIS, the Taliban and other Islamic terrorists for what that psychopath did. But I’ll hazard a guess that you don’t.

Blaming one person is the same as blaming all people of a particular faith to you?

 

[ferball]

Wikipedia can have anybody contribute.
If you do not have people criticising and factchecking a page, then the page is not reliable.

So its just like scientific method?

 

[Demonic Ascent]

The main driving forces of anti-Semitism are the genocidal actions of Netanyahu in Gaza, along with political figures like Minns, Albanese (and Siegel) in Australia (and their equivalents internationally) who seek to equate opposition to genocide with anti-Semitism.

Netanyahu and his government do not represent the Jewish people, as shown by the global involvement of Jews in the mass anti-genocide demonstrations. In fact, by denouncing the anti-genocide protests as being anti-Jewish, the Zionists only help create the political conditions that can be exploited by the real antisemites, notably neo-Nazis and far-right Islamic groups such as Islamic State.

Before anything was even known about the motives of the two alleged gunmen, Minns equated the shootings with the marches and online opposition to the Gaza genocide, accusing them of promoting “toxic” and “cancerous” Jewish hatred, creating an atmosphere that leads to violence.

“Wherever it is, we need to fight antisemitism,” he declared. “It is toxic. It is cancerous within a community… We need to be clear and unambiguous that we will fight it everywhere we see it, whether it’s destructive, horrible acts of violence or chants, mottos and internet posts on the internet.”

This turns reality on its head. It is the monstrous crimes of the Zionist regime that feed and fuel actual antisemitism, particularly by its false identification of all Jews with the genocide and the decades of oppression, slaughter and removal of Palestinians.

Immigration is not the issue. Fascists are emerging internationally because of the role of so called democracies in politically supporting the Zionist genocide in Gaza.

This is another thing that needs to be clearly articulated as a principle - you can condemn actions of the state of Israel without being antisemitic. I'm sure there are people that use criticism of Israel to spout their antisemitic views but that doesn't mean anyone who criticises Israeli actions is automatically antisemitic.

Judging people on their actions and not their attributes is why it really is irrelevant what the background/ethnicity of the heroes who stood up to the gunman is. I understand why some people may want to play it up but at the end of the day they are heroes regardless of their ethnicity/religious beliefs. (I'm not meaning to insult anyone here so sorry if I've made this point clumsily).

Same goes for the politicising of who was in government when the father migrated here or when he was granted the gun licence. Government departments run this stuff, to seek to lay blame on Howard, Abbott/Turnbull, Albanese because they were in government when they migrated here or got their gun licence is irrelevant and just another way of politicising the tragedy.