Religion Bondi shooting - 16 confirmed dead at Jewish event

[SBD Gonzalez]

the minns govt has had one to many shandies over the xmas break if this is under consideration

Minns government ‘actively’ considering if Jewish security group should be armed after Bondi attack

NSW premier also announces police will carry long-arm rifles at major New Year’s Eve event in Sydney

www.theguardian.com

Yes I can’t see any potential downside, in a modern, multicultural nation, to allowing members of only one specific racial or religious minority to carry weapons, none whatsoever.

FMD this is where we’re at?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

While theres a political point scoring element in some quarters, the pressure on Albanese to have a RC into Bondi may be impossible now to avoid with the group letter from victims families being reported across all media

It’s seriously bizarre. The SMH, which by and large has been pretty supportive of Albanese’s prime ministership, seems determined to wound him as much as possible on this.

 

[Carringbush2010]

I disagree. I think if they knew they were likely to be caught and imprisoned before they got to carry out the attack, they would be much less likely to attempt it.

Well I guess that's subject to opinion, unless we can read minds, however if these guys are hard core islam extremists then it's likely they'd be willing to die for their warped cause.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that islamic terrorists (reportedly) are more than happy to die for their cause so there is NO deterrent for them.

If they aren't then yeah you'd probs be right, I'd advocate for harsher punishment if it proved to be an efficient deterrent.

 

[ElectricG]

Well I guess that's subject to opinion, unless we can read minds, however if these guys are hard core islam extremists then it's likely they'd be willing to die for their warped cause.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that islamic terrorists (reportedly) are more than happy to die for their cause so there is NO deterrent for them.

If they aren't then yeah you'd probs be right, I'd advocate for harsher punishment if it proved to be an efficient deterrent.

I think it would absolutely be a deterrent. Think about the Bondi Islamic terrorists - they go to do all their planning and preparation unimpeded, and got to go out in the blaze of glory they wanted. Whether dead or imprisoned they got their wish of murdering a whole bunch of non-Muslim people.

I think if they knew the odds were that the planning phase would get them chucked in a cell they’d never emerge from, this would significantly change the calculus.

 

[Gavin Excell]

It’s seriously bizarre. The SMH, which by and large has been pretty supportive of Albanese’s prime ministership, seems determined to wound him as much as possible on this.

He's damned if he does/doesn't have a RC now

 

[Gough]

He's damned if he does/doesn't have a RC now

Hot weather, the Melbourne pitch, Christmas bills and holidays probably means that those who seek gain from this won't be getting the eyeballs they might hope.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

I think it would absolutely be a deterrent. Think about the Bondi Islamic terrorists - they go to do all their planning and preparation unimpeded, and got to go out in the blaze of glory they wanted. Whether dead or imprisoned they got their wish of murdering a whole bunch of non-Muslim people.

I think if they knew the odds were that the planning phase would get them chucked in a cell they’d never emerge from, this would significantly change the calculus.

Unfortunately, there's this thing. Progressives tend to call it human rights, right wingers tend to call it freedom...

 

[ElectricG]

Unfortunately, there's this thing. Progressives tend to call it human rights, right wingers tend to call it freedom...

What does that even mean? Planning a terrorist attack is a human right? The **** are you on about

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

While theres a political point scoring element in some quarters, the pressure on Albanese to have a RC into Bondi may be impossible now to avoid with the group letter from victims families being reported across all media

And this call for an RC will backfire on the media and those families.

The Royal Commison will just be formal and longer way if saying "anti semitism has risen because Israel are genocidal campaigners" and "and we are really hateful that Albo recognises Palestine"

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

What does that even mean? Planning a terrorist attack is a human right? The **** are you on about

Wow, way to miss the point of what I'm saying.

What the **** I'm on about is that what you're proposing impinges grossly onto the area of rights.

Which you may have noticed, both the left and the right, in their own ways, are rather protective of.

Locking people up for years on end on what is veering dangerously close to thought crimes is not going to go down too well.

Expect any such legislation to rightly go straight to the High Court.

Plus, you still haven't furnished any examples of all these people planning terrorist attacks who have apparently been let off with a slap on the wrist.

I think you're jumping at shadows.

 

[ElectricG]

Wow, way to miss the point of what I'm saying.

What the **** I'm on about is that what you're proposing impinges grossly onto the area of rights.

Which you may have noticed, both the left and the right, in their own ways, are rather protective of.

Locking people up for years on end on what is veering dangerously close to thought crimes is not going to go down too well.

Expect any such legislation to rightly go straight to the High Court.

Plus, you still haven't furnished any examples of all these people planning terrorist attacks who have apparently been let off with a slap on the wrist.

I think you're jumping at shadows.

To be clear, you think planning a terrorist attack is something that people should not be arrested for because that would be penalising thought crimes?

 

[Gough]

To be clear, you think planning a terrorist attack is something that people should not be arrested for because that would be penalising thought crimes?

There are already laws in place that criminalise that, what extra laws do you want exactly?

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

To be clear, you think planning a terrorist attack is something that people should not be arrested for because that would be penalising thought crimes?

To be clear, you think people planning terrorist attacks have been let off?

My point is, before we introduce draconian new laws, we need to first make the case that the existing ones are inadequate.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd say you have yet to do that, and I see enormous rights issues with the sort of sweeping dragnet laws you appear to be proposing.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Wow, way to miss the point of what I'm saying.

What the **** I'm on about is that what you're proposing impinges grossly onto the area of rights.

Which you may have noticed, both the left and the right, in their own ways, are rather protective of.

Locking people up for years on end on what is veering dangerously close to thought crimes is not going to go down too well.

Expect any such legislation to rightly go straight to the High Court.

Plus, you still haven't furnished any examples of all these people planning terrorist attacks who have apparently been let off with a slap on the wrist.

I think you're jumping at shadows.

I didn't see that the poster was looking for thought crime imprisonment
But things like suspicious trips to the phillippines would be clearly acceptable for further enquiry
(do we have sufficient manpower to investigate everyones suspicious phillipines trip though)

targeting someone due to association with ISIS or a radical hardline hate speaker for closer monitoring? well I think with terrorism laws we are already there aren't we - again its a manpower issue. Or it will turn into AI trying to pick people based of their social media and credit card activity which will lead to some interesting teething issues (as always happens with AI)

 

[Gavin Excell]

And this call for an RC will backfire on the media and those families.

The Royal Commison will just be formal and longer way if saying "anti semitism has risen because Israel are genocidal campaigners" and "and we are really hateful that Albo recognises Palestine"

And there will be criticism of the selection of its lead Commissioner, terms etc
Will just go on and on

 

[faible]

To be clear, you think people planning terrorist attacks have been let off?

My point is, before we introduce draconian new laws, we need to first make the case that the existing ones are inadequate.

I'm not a lawyer, but I'd say you have yet to do that, and I see enormous rights issues with the sort of sweeping dragnet laws you appear to be proposing.

A lot of people supporting draconian laws actually mean they want draconian laws applied to <those people> but not themselves or people like them.

We have a lot of existing laws that either need to be applied better, or altered because they're not fit for purpose anymore. Like our gun laws; they're pretty good, but they've become outdated and need to be adjusted to keep up with the modern gun manufacturers and the loopholes they've found.

Does ASIO have sufficient resources to monitor the high-risk people? Are our state gun registries properly managed to allow state and federal law enforcement agencies sufficient knowledge on who has what and where?

We're very fortunate we live in a very safe country and have gotten away with letting things become outdated, and whilst you'll never stop 100% of people determined and willing to die to cause terror and harm to others, this is a wake-up call that there needs to be regular reviews of the laws we have to ensure they remain fit-for-purpose.

 

[ElectricG]

To be clear, you think people planning terrorist attacks have been let off?

Not really. But I think our intelligence agencies have tonnes of info of people in the community who have terrorist sympathies, but are yet to put any immediate plans into written or spoken word.

I don’t think it’s draconian to imprison someone for having terrorist associations or just harbouring the ideology. It seems to me that only an immediate and specific threat is something that can truly be acted on. You can reasonably suggest that someone who has allegiance to ISIS will put the community at risk at some point.

Again, there are people in the community who comprise a “Sydney based IS cell”. Seriously, how can this be? One of the authority’s latest threats is that they’ll ensure hate preachers don’t get any government funding. That’s the penalty they face - the free money that they were getting from the government will dry up.

I guess that’s my main issue; the scope of these laws and the penalties.

For example this person WAS planning and attack and only got seven years. He’ll be out in 2028 if he’s not already:

Man with 'grandiose ideas' of being head of IS in Australia jailed for seven years

A judge says Sydney man Isaac El Matari "did a lot of talking" and there was a "low" chance of him launching a terrorism attack in Australia, as the 22-year-old is jailed for seven years.

www.abc.net.au

Such a person should never be let out of prison.

 

[Gethelred]

Not really. But I think our intelligence agencies have tonnes of info of people in the community who have terrorist sympathies, but are yet to put any immediate plans into written or spoken word.

I don’t think it’s draconian to imprison someone for having terrorist associations or just harbouring the ideology. It seems to me that only an immediate and specific threat is something that can truly be acted on. You can reasonably suggest that someone who has allegiance to ISIS will put the community at risk at some point.

Again, there are people in the community who comprise a “Sydney based IS cell”. Seriously, how can this be? One of the authority’s latest threats is that they’ll ensure hate preachers don’t get any government funding. That’s the penalty they face - the free money that they were getting from the government will dry up.

I guess that’s my main issue; the scope of these laws and the penalties.

For example this person WAS planning and attack and only got seven years. He’ll be out in 2028 if he’s not already:

Man with 'grandiose ideas' of being head of IS in Australia jailed for seven years

A judge says Sydney man Isaac El Matari "did a lot of talking" and there was a "low" chance of him launching a terrorism attack in Australia, as the 22-year-old is jailed for seven years.

www.abc.net.au

Such a person should never be let out of prison.

This whole post is very... Kafka of you, EG.

 

[ElectricG]

This whole post is very... Kafka of you, EG.

Yeah. It’s a shit post. I’ve been arguing with too many different people for too long and should take a break.

Let’s just pretend I wrote something really compelling to say terrorists shouldn’t be allowed to exist in the community.

 

[Gough]

Not really. But I think our intelligence agencies have tonnes of info of people in the community who have terrorist sympathies, but are yet to put any immediate plans into written or spoken word.

I don’t think it’s draconian to imprison someone for having terrorist associations or just harbouring the ideology. It seems to me that only an immediate and specific threat is something that can truly be acted on. You can reasonably suggest that someone who has allegiance to ISIS will put the community at risk at some point.

Again, there are people in the community who comprise a “Sydney based IS cell”. Seriously, how can this be? One of the authority’s latest threats is that they’ll ensure hate preachers don’t get any government funding. That’s the penalty they face - the free money that they were getting from the government will dry up.

I guess that’s my main issue; the scope of these laws and the penalties.

For example this person WAS planning and attack and only got seven years. He’ll be out in 2028 if he’s not already:

Man with 'grandiose ideas' of being head of IS in Australia jailed for seven years

A judge says Sydney man Isaac El Matari "did a lot of talking" and there was a "low" chance of him launching a terrorism attack in Australia, as the 22-year-old is jailed for seven years.

www.abc.net.au

Such a person should never be let out of prison.

Let's start by locking up all Australian Trump supporters if thought crime is going to be a thing.

 

[1990crow]

Not really. But I think our intelligence agencies have tonnes of info of people in the community who have terrorist sympathies, but are yet to put any immediate plans into written or spoken word.

I don’t think it’s draconian to imprison someone for having terrorist associations or just harbouring the ideology. It seems to me that only an immediate and specific threat is something that can truly be acted on. You can reasonably suggest that someone who has allegiance to ISIS will put the community at risk at some point.

Again, there are people in the community who comprise a “Sydney based IS cell”. Seriously, how can this be? One of the authority’s latest threats is that they’ll ensure hate preachers don’t get any government funding. That’s the penalty they face - the free money that they were getting from the government will dry up.

I guess that’s my main issue; the scope of these laws and the penalties.

For example this person WAS planning and attack and only got seven years. He’ll be out in 2028 if he’s not already:

Man with 'grandiose ideas' of being head of IS in Australia jailed for seven years

A judge says Sydney man Isaac El Matari "did a lot of talking" and there was a "low" chance of him launching a terrorism attack in Australia, as the 22-year-old is jailed for seven years.

www.abc.net.au

Such a person should never be let out of prison.

Unfortunately that's not how the law works.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

terrorists shouldn’t be allowed to exist in the community.

I'm not sure anyone disagrees with this.

 

[Jameggins]

I don’t think it’s draconian to imprison someone for having terrorist associations or just harbouring the ideology. It seems to me that only an immediate and specific threat is something that can truly be acted on. You can reasonably suggest that someone who has allegiance to ISIS will put the community at risk at some point.

Why are you only talking about Muslims. Islamophobic extremists share ideology with Brenton Tarrant. Shouldn't we be locking you guys up too then?

 

[Festerz]

He's damned if he does/doesn't have a RC now

Respected political commentator Professor Mark Kenny said in within days of the tragedy that Albanese calling a national Royal Commission into the Bondi shootings - in addition to the NSW RC would be the smart political thing to do - especially given that any potential political blowback on his government would be minimised by, amongst other things, the lengthy amount of time it takes for a RC to be established, take evidence and finally deliver its findings. Kenny stated that it was a (political) mistake by Albanese not to have done so that was likely to damage both his leadership and his government.

But that does not make it the right thing to do in terms of what is required in both investigating the root causes of the terrorist attack and in providing the long term judicial support to more immediate investigative, enforcement and legislative actions to minimise the chances of such a tragedy reoccurring. Especially as the NSW Government has already committed to establishing a Royal Commission and the Federal Government can, and has already committed to, providing whatever assistance, resources and powers is needed to ensure the NSW RC is wide ranging one.

But of course the media response to this shooting has been firmly rooted in politics rather than clear thinking since the first reports of it happening were broadcast across Sydney, Australia and the world via hundreds of mobile phones.

The pasting of a letter from 17 families of those Jews who were slaughtered in Bondi - calling for a national Royal Commission and condemning Albanese again for his inactions - across the front pages of the Nine Network, Seven Media and NewsCorp dailies this morning is sadly part of that political posturing.

 

[Festerz]

It’s seriously bizarre. The SMH, which by and large has been pretty supportive of Albanese’s prime ministership, seems determined to wound him as much as possible on this.

It might be related to the fact that Peter Tonagh was appointed as Chair of the Nine Entertainment Co. Limited - the owner of the Age/SMH/AFR mastheads - in November.

Tonagh joined the Nine Board in January 2025 and was previously CEO of Foxtel, CEO of NewsCorp Australia and then served as Deputy chair of the ABC during the Morrison Government before resigning in 2024 - 18 months prior to the expiration of his term.