Best player you've ever seen?

[Chip Scab1]

I guess 2 Norm Smiths possibly elevates Hodge, but he's nowhere near GAS or GAJ. Dusty is lauded by Richmond supporters as the greatest ever because of his 3 NS's

Look they're entitled to that opinion. He certainly was an epic footballer, I have him in the category below the 3 greatest. To me, he's just below Mathews, Buddy, GAJ in the 7-20 all-time level.

If he had taken footy seriously earlier, who knows? But 3x NS is out of this world and elevates him considerably. Maybe young Ashcroft will join him on 3, but I doubt we'll see another 3x winner in our lifetime.

 

[Gone Critical]

You can't dismiss Hodge's actual ability though.

He was an elite footballer in each position he played.

As a mid, as a forward when needed, and as a defender (both as an attacking defender and a shutdown one).

He was better than the best multiple times when it mattered most.


If you add that to his leadership (on field and off field at a club level), his footy smarts and his physicality - I have him easily in my conversation as best ever players.

I don't dismiss it. He was very good. An all time best player at Hawthorn and would make their best ever team.

My best ever Hawks would be
Lethal
Hudson
Dunstall
Buddy
Arthur
Mitchell
Dermie

I don't think Hodge is near most of these. Mitchell and Derm maybe not that far behind.

After that there is a big group you could argue the order of that would include
Hodge as well as Crimmins, Tuck, Knights, Mew, Langford, Ayres, Rioli, Scott. Reckon he is in the 10-20 group of best Hawks. Hawks have had a lot of beauties..

 

[Gone Critical]

Probably the career that matches Hodge best at Hawthorn is Ayres. Both back men principally who could move up the ground with great effect. Both 2x Norm Smiths. Both won B&Fs and AAs ( team.of the year in Ayres time). Both captained the club. They owned their position on the ground but didn't regularly match up on the oppos best players. Ayres stronger and as Jean's said "a good driver in heavy traffic". Hodge a better quarterback and play maker. 5 and 4 flags. Guns but not near the best player of their era.

 

[RUNVS]

Probably the career that matches Hodge best at Hawthorn is Ayres. Both back men principally who could move up the ground with great effect. Both 2x Norm Smiths. Both won B&Fs and AAs ( team.of the year in Ayres time). Both captained the club. They owned their position on the ground but didn't regularly match up on the oppos best players. Ayres stronger and as Jean's said "a good driver in heavy traffic". Hodge a better quarterback and play maker. 5 and 4 flags. Guns but not near the best player of their era.

I am going to say something that I am sure most will disagree with but I never saw Hodge as a match winner. Yes he was a very good player at doing his job, and in tough games you want him there, but he never felt like a player who you really really looked to when Hawthorn needed someone to really step up (not that he was bad at it). To me Shaun Burgoyne was always much more that player than Hodge was.

 

[Chip Scab1]

I am going to say something that I am sure most will disagree with but I never saw Hodge as a match winner. Yes he was a very good player at doing his job, and in tough games you want him there, but he never felt like a player who you really really looked to when Hawthorn needed someone to really step up (not that he was bad at it). To me Shaun Burgoyne was always much more that player than Hodge was.

Yeah but you think Nick Riewoldt and Carey are similar so not sure I can take anything you say seriously.

 

[RUNVS]

Yeah but you think Nick Riewoldt and Carey are similar so not sure I can take anything you say seriously.

I am simply trying to get people to explain why Carey is the greatest of all time, and Nick Riewoldt is probably not in the top 100 and yet statistically they are very very similar. It is not an unreasonable question.

 

[Chip Scab1]

I am simply trying to get people to explain why Carey is the greatest of all time, and Nick Riewoldt is probably not in the top 100 and yet statistically they are very very similar. It is not an unreasonable question.

Maybe to you. But to anyone who saw them play, it is, as has been mentioned in this thread. I rate Nicky, good player, you could argue he's better than Brereton, you can't argue he's better than Carey.

Carey had more injuries, was a better Captain and leader, played ridiculous finals and was a better footballer by plenty. His 3rdQ in the midfield in the 99 GF (7 @ 100%) proves it imo. Footy was different, you could literally assault Carey in a marking contest and it'd be play on. But breathe on Nicky and he'd get a free. He was a much much better kick, longer, more accurate and had a ridiculous left. Also MUCH better handballer, just stupidly good. Comfortably the best player I've ever seen 93-96. Easily.

His '94 finals series with a calf strain and as a 22 year old skipper was utterly ridiculous.
Given what defenders could get away with at the time...

 

[King Huskii]

Patrick Voss

How good was he that game last year against the Pies

 

[crowman2]

I am simply trying to get people to explain why Carey is the greatest of all time, and Nick Riewoldt is probably not in the top 100 and yet statistically they are very very similar. It is not an unreasonable question.

If I could choose any player for my team that I think could elevate us to a premiership in their prime it would no doubt be Carey. He can change the whole way your team plays by being such a dominant forward that commands two if not 3 players to stand him.

 

[Sir_Loin]

I think Lethal is pretty much in agreement with his GOAT ranking judging by what he has sa8d over the years. Love Dusty but he is not near Lethal.

I’m not sure how you get there to be honest. You’re talking about a three norm smith, three flag player. Lethal was unreal but Dusty was on another level

 

[RUNVS]

I’m not sure how you get there to be honest. You’re talking about a three norm smith, three flag player. Lethal was unreal but Dusty was on another level

I very much doubt too many people would take Martin over Ablett Jnr and Franklin and they are just from the 21st century.

 

[PowerfulPies2023]

I very much doubt too many people would take Martin over Ablett Jnr and Franklin and they are just from the 21st century.

martin was good. When it mattered he could single handedly put a whole team on his back and get then the win. Did it in 2020 GF. set up 2019 with 6 against the Lions at FF in the qualifier.

He never went missing.

 

[RUNVS]

martin was good. When it mattered he could single handedly put a whole team on his back and get then the win. Did it in 2020 GF. set up 2019 with 6 against the Lions at FF in the qualifier.

He never went missing.

Well except for the first 5 years of his career and the last 3 years of his career.

 

[Vdubs]

I am old

But I'm happy.

 

[Vdubs]

Agreed. Lethal is my best.

Not far behind him mind you was Kevin Bartlett. His record is outstanding and was a Richmond hero in my youth.

Carey was a standout for me during his era. Lockett and Dunstall were great as was Robert Harvey.

Gary Ablett Snr’s highlights reel is probably better than everyone’s. I just rate Lethal, Carey and KB ahead of him.

My 2 bobs worth.

I can imagine you'd want to forget about Snr's form against Tigers- 20 games, 18-2 W-L, 118 goals.
Dunstall, 20 games, 111 goals.
Lockett 17 games, 89 goals.
Let us not forget Ablett in 89 kicked 14 goals against Tigers from wing/HFF.

 

[Vdubs]

Matthews was the only one though that there were genuine calls for him to be arrested for assault after something he did on the field, and how bad must his actions have been for that call to be made given there is usually a lot of leeway given to violence when it is on the football field.

What he did to Bruns was behind play and as vicious and sickening as the O'Dea hit on Greening

 

[ReturningHawk]

I am going to say something that I am sure most will disagree with but I never saw Hodge as a match winner. Yes he was a very good player at doing his job, and in tough games you want him there, but he never felt like a player who you really really looked to when Hawthorn needed someone to really step up (not that he was bad at it). To me Shaun Burgoyne was always much more that player than Hodge was.

Hodge was rarely a match-winner. But he was a match-saver as well as our barometer for toughness and attack on the ball. Opposition fans worried about the likes of Buddy and Rioli who certainly did a lot of damage, but Hawks fans knew that if we saw Hodge or Mitchell as a late out, we were vulnerable as a side.

Hodgey is not the best individual player I’ve seen though. If you put 2008 Buddy Franklin into a bottle it’s probably at the top of the tree for me. Seemed to kick 7-8 goals each week effortlessly - but looking back it was probably the most watchable century ever kicked.

 

[Gone Critical]

I’m not sure how you get there to be honest. You’re talking about a three norm smith, three flag player. Lethal was unreal but Dusty was on another level

I can only believe you don't know Lethals career very well. He is a 4 flag player for what's that worth. He was BOG in the 78 flag (28 disp and 4 goals). Close to BOG in 83, 22 disp, 6 goals.

His level of dominance in the competition isn't matched for duration or level of dominance. His 1977 season is probably the most dominant of any player ever. (Hudson 70 and 71 rivals). Averaged 27 disposals a game while kicking 91 goals as a mid. He won a Coleman medal as a mid. He won 8 B&Fs playing in a dominant team. 3x B&F in premiership sides, 1st time as a 19.yo in a season where Hudson kicked 150 goals.

Dusty was fantastic but Matthews a different level altogether.