The Bigfooty Liverpool Thread - Champions of England

[Zidane98]

Is Kabak available on loan?

No. I hear we have buyback clauses for big Nat & Ben Davies though.

 

[Ocha905]

No. I hear we have buyback clauses for big Nat & Ben Davies though.

Wouldn’t mind Phillips atm that’s how desperate we are.

 

[gaskin]

Pleasantly surprising performance. The first half it almost looked like how much were Arsenal going to win by. Whatever Slot changed at half-time worked a treat but as expected with the side selected we had no end product. Frimpong was good but his final ball was absolute shit house.

 

[Cuzz09]

0-0 dour

Called it

 

[Yoda_]

(I come in peace)

How have Liverpool turned themselves from an almost club circa 2015, to a legitimate powerhouse (again)

Understand the history of the Reds, the great players you have had over the journey but in terms of coming from so-so to genuine challengers is one I wish my Tottenham would actually accept.

Seems we are so obsessed with "win now", we try and cut corners, we hope players come good, we pray almost players become stars, we struggle to give academy kids a genuine long term go and when they do become ok, its never enough.

Am curious as the way Liverpool have built over the last decade is one that my Tottenham should genuinely look as as a case study.

 

[gaskin]

(I come in peace)

How have Liverpool turned themselves from an almost club circa 2015, to a legitimate powerhouse (again)

Understand the history of the Reds, the great players you have had over the journey but in terms of coming from so-so to genuine challengers is one I wish my Tottenham would actually accept.

Seems we are so obsessed with "win now", we try and cut corners, we hope players come good, we pray almost players become stars, we struggle to give academy kids a genuine long term go and when they do become ok, its never enough.

Am curious as the way Liverpool have built over the last decade is one that my Tottenham should genuinely look as as a case study.

The right people in the right positions. Great owners who leave the football to the football people. The name also holds power in the football world. Being one of the biggest clubs in the world helps attract players of a higher caliber.

 

[Yoda_]

The right people in the right positions. Great owners who leave the football to the football people. The name also holds power in the football world. Being one of the biggest clubs in the world helps attract players of a higher caliber.

doing a little deeper, is 2015 when Fenway took over?


When you say football people do the football stuff, obviously a director of football looks after transfers etc? squad management etc? I think this is a major problem with our club at the moment. With our revolving door of managers desperate to win now, the ability to align recruitment and managers struggles to align.

 

[gaskin]

doing a little deeper, is 2015 when Fenway took over?


When you say football people do the football stuff, obviously a director of football looks after transfers etc? squad management etc? I think this is a major problem with our club at the moment. With our revolving door of managers desperate to win now, the ability to align recruitment and managers struggles to align.

They took over in 2010.

What I mean by football people do the football stuff is the owners knowing that they don't know much about the sport and how to run the day to day operations of a PL club- not just matters directly related to on the pitch. They have people they trust to run things while they are on another continent.

From the outside looking in the issue is whoever is making decisions at Tottenham does not realise who the club are and where they are in the pecking order. There is no magic overnight fix. They need to pick a manager and give them time to form their squad. The biggest thing FSG did was give Klopp time. Time is something owners aren't willing to give these days with so much money on the line.

 

[QuietB]

(I come in peace)

How have Liverpool turned themselves from an almost club circa 2015, to a legitimate powerhouse (again)

Understand the history of the Reds, the great players you have had over the journey but in terms of coming from so-so to genuine challengers is one I wish my Tottenham would actually accept.

Seems we are so obsessed with "win now", we try and cut corners, we hope players come good, we pray almost players become stars, we struggle to give academy kids a genuine long term go and when they do become ok, its never enough.

Am curious as the way Liverpool have built over the last decade is one that my Tottenham should genuinely look as as a case study.

There are so many factors. Obviously coaching, off field stability, talent, belief, …..

I honestly think one of the most overlooked elements in sports is leadership. The successful Liverpool teams are full of leaders. I think last years title winning team had 5 national captains - VVD, Szo, Mo, Robbo and Endo. And then there were other leaders all over the pitch.

No dickheads and great leadership is a massive part of success in sports.

Having said that Arsenal are full of dickheads and they will likely win the league this season.

 

[foxdog50]

 

[Yoda_]

They took over in 2010.

What I mean by football people do the football stuff is the owners knowing that they don't know much about the sport and how to run the day to day operations of a PL club- not just matters directly related to on the pitch. They have people they trust to run things while they are on another continent.

most Tottenham supporters are glad that Daniel Levy is gone, just need to install a good operator now, Johane Lange is not it. Villa are doing good things now JL is gone. Most aren't impressed by him.

From the outside looking in the issue is whoever is making decisions at Tottenham does not realise who the club are and where they are in the pecking order. There is no magic overnight fix. They need to pick a manager and give them time to form their squad. The biggest thing FSG did was give Klopp time. Time is something owners aren't willing to give these days with so much money on the line.

It feels like there is more desperation than most clubs with Tottenham, we must be a "win now" club. was it a case of employ Klopp and then back him with genuine quality acquisitions or a slow build? Feels like we get close with an ok appointment but then struggle to back properly. Often being a tight arse on recruitment. We often try and luck our way out of situations, VDV for £35m is surreal to think he'll end up going for £70m+, Romero I was excited about but again, proving why the mega clubs weren't in for him. He's a nice player and nothing more. Ditto Maddinson, ditto Kulusevski, ditto Solanke etc. We always get nice players and not genuine top liners.

sorry for the rant just genuinely curious how Pool have done it

 

[gaskin]

It feels like there is more desperation than most clubs with Tottenham, we must be a "win now" club. was it a case of employ Klopp and then back him with genuine quality acquisitions or a slow build? Feels like we get close with an ok appointment but then struggle to back properly. Often being a tight arse on recruitment. We often try and luck our way out of situations, VDV for £35m is surreal to think he'll end up going for £70m+, Romero I was excited about but again, proving why the mega clubs weren't in for him. He's a nice player and nothing more. Ditto Maddinson, ditto Kulusevski, ditto Solanke etc. We always get nice players and not genuine top liners.

It was somewhat of a slow build but it took Alisson and VVD to get over the hump. If you look at the title winning side in 2019/20, when Klopp arrived the players already here were Lovren, Henderson, Milner, Firmino, Origi, and Lallana. The rest of the side were brought in over the next 4-5 years.

 

[Ocha905]

(I come in peace)

How have Liverpool turned themselves from an almost club circa 2015, to a legitimate powerhouse (again)

Understand the history of the Reds, the great players you have had over the journey but in terms of coming from so-so to genuine challengers is one I wish my Tottenham would actually accept.

Seems we are so obsessed with "win now", we try and cut corners, we hope players come good, we pray almost players become stars, we struggle to give academy kids a genuine long term go and when they do become ok, its never enough.

Am curious as the way Liverpool have built over the last decade is one that my Tottenham should genuinely look as as a case study.

To be honest I think it started with a bit of luck when Barca were hellbent on buying Coutinho at any price. It allowed us, a long time leaky club, to buy Van Dijk and Alisson which changed the culture to that we didn't have to beat good teams 3-2 to have any chance of winning. People mostly remember Jurgen's Liverpool for their attack and "heavy metal football" but those high presses and lines would've been torn to shreds without those 2 signings plus an extremely industrious but hardly world class midfield.

Speaking of Klopp, finding a special (or normal as he described himself lol) manager is the shortcut to doing so. He was the reason for the culture change at the club, turning "doubters into believers" as he said. Finding a truly great manager is easier said than done.

Weirdly though, and I could well be wrong as I don't follow Tottenham closely, but I think of Van De Ven and Romero as Spurs' best players so don't know why you are still pretty leaky. The zeitgeist of the game atm seems to be converting and defending set pieces which makes CB's extra important (and a reason we've struggled this season as Virg has dropped off from his World Class level and Konate has been poor for the most part). Meaning this style of play should be beneficial to your team so don't know why it's not been the case (Fwank not up to it, players not buying in, bad luck again...)

Liverpool were also ahead of the game in sabermetrics and advanced stats during this time to recruit some absolute bargains like Andy Robertson for example. Most teams have caught up by now though (some teams like Brighton, Bournemouth, Brentford have arguably surpassed us even and the jury's out on Liverpool after the last transfer window which wasn't our typical style). Finding competitive advantages now is harder than ever but not impossible of course. Your club has sneakily invested in the transfer market but from my vantage point haven't struck gold recently indicating middling scouting and stats interpretation.

From a pure results standpoint you've got to start consistently qualifying for Champions League football to be consistently successful. It's just so ridiculously lucrative and gives you a window to attract, maybe not the Mbappe, Bellingham superstars but any player below that level. The EPL is so much more competitive though than when Liverpool were making their rise. It's gone from like 5-6 decent teams to 15 atm. And Liverpool is facing a nervy season ahead to qualify as a result in a transition year (if we fail to reach Champions League it would probably be disastrous in terms of competing domestically in the short term).

But you winning the Europa League is a nice stepping stone for building belief despite it getting derided by some oppo trolls. Liverpool making it to the final of the Europa League early in Klopp's tenor was a keystone to giving belief we were on the right path.

Don't know enough about academies (I know Chelsea's and City's are better than ours) but getting Alexander-Arnold and Curtis Jones to a lesser extent is the best value you can get. I can't say our academy was a major reason for success though tbh. Maybe that's a way Spurs can gain a competitive advantage.

So I see some parallels between clubs but don't follow football enough as a whole to be able to tell you if the Liverpool model is one Spurs can emulate.

 

[Yoda_]

Great post Ocha905, a lot of that I can resonate as a Spurs supporter. The manager point of view from Klopp turning the fan base from doubters to believers was massive from Ange, genuinely felt like the supporter base got on board with Ange, as crazy as he was. I thought he earnt the right to start this season. With a full and fit squad but alas, here we are.


Just on VDV and Romero, most pundits rate these tow as genuinely world class defenders, VDV I can see angling for a move whilst Romero seems to already be checked out. Lose them and ENIC need to sell up. The players in front of them are absolute trash, some ok kids but nothing of substance. Throw in meddling fwds and the mounting injury list and it's no wonder these so called world class defenders want to leave.

I miss Poch and think he was the best thing to happen to us. He galvanised the group, he glued the supporters to the team, played and developed the youth but maybe he was the worst thing to happen as he gave ENIC an over inflated sense of how good a football club we are.

On the academies, we struggle to integrate youth, absolutely shits me to tears. Levy wanted to sell Harry Kane, 100%! Harry Redknapp gave him a start in place of an injured striker (berbatov maybe) and the rest is history. We struggle to give our kids a go for some stupid reason. We literally won PL2 last season and have no first XI squad players bar Dane Scarlett. Bemuses me

Anyways, thanks for your input all, as an Aussie with lots of Reds mates, I follow you loosely and its a joy to see how well you operate

 

[Mr Meow]

Great post Ocha905, a lot of that I can resonate as a Spurs supporter. The manager point of view from Klopp turning the fan base from doubters to believers was massive from Ange, genuinely felt like the supporter base got on board with Ange, as crazy as he was. I thought he earnt the right to start this season. With a full and fit squad but alas, here we are.


Just on VDV and Romero, most pundits rate these tow as genuinely world class defenders, VDV I can see angling for a move whilst Romero seems to already be checked out. Lose them and ENIC need to sell up. The players in front of them are absolute trash, some ok kids but nothing of substance. Throw in meddling fwds and the mounting injury list and it's no wonder these so called world class defenders want to leave.

I miss Poch and think he was the best thing to happen to us. He galvanised the group, he glued the supporters to the team, played and developed the youth but maybe he was the worst thing to happen as he gave ENIC an over inflated sense of how good a football club we are.

On the academies, we struggle to integrate youth, absolutely shits me to tears. Levy wanted to sell Harry Kane, 100%! Harry Redknapp gave him a start in place of an injured striker (berbatov maybe) and the rest is history. We struggle to give our kids a go for some stupid reason. We literally won PL2 last season and have no first XI squad players bar Dane Scarlett. Bemuses me

Anyways, thanks for your input all, as an Aussie with lots of Reds mates, I follow you loosely and its a joy to see how well you operate

Tottenham were on track with the Poch era, but didn't have the right people above him to keep it going and/or transition to the next guy without it falling apart. It is very difficult moving on from that transformational manager. Liverpool are seeing that, on a year delay because Klopp had rebuilt just enough of the team for them to carry on as normal in year 1 of Slot.

The other thing is replacing those generational (plus damn solid stalwart) club players is so bloody hard. Kane, Son etc and their support group, a solid defence etc lead by Poch - it's rare to be able to pull off a seamless transition. Even Man City have had their issues and they have retained their world class manager, with Haaland/Foden etc still there and generally effective new signings being added.

 

[peternorth]

We've made a signing!

Can he play CB?

That’s extreme.
The lack of defenders is bloody concerning.

Why sell Quansah? Feel like they lost faith in him too quickly.
Just turn Szobo into a CB at this rate

Reminds of the days when Can was deployed as a CB

 

[RossFC]

 

[CFC_JP]

(I come in peace)

How have Liverpool turned themselves from an almost club circa 2015, to a legitimate powerhouse (again)

Understand the history of the Reds, the great players you have had over the journey but in terms of coming from so-so to genuine challengers is one I wish my Tottenham would actually accept.

Seems we are so obsessed with "win now", we try and cut corners, we hope players come good, we pray almost players become stars, we struggle to give academy kids a genuine long term go and when they do become ok, its never enough.

Am curious as the way Liverpool have built over the last decade is one that my Tottenham should genuinely look as as a case study.

KLOPP

 

[peternorth]

KLOPP

Konate
Lallana
Ozan Kabak
Paulinho
Pitaluga

 

[RossFC]

U21s beat Norwich 3-2. Figueroa with a brace off the bench, Nallo with the other goal. Ewing with an assist.

Team was: Pecsi, Davidson, Lucky, Nallo, Chambers, Kelly, Laffey, Pilling, Morrison, Kone-Doherty, Wright.
Subs: Miscuir, Pinnington, Ewing, Trueman, Figueroa

The goals:

 

[JLC]

Semenyo to city deal is done.

If Edwards and Hughes (they) are any good they will surely have some alternatives lined up. Show us how good you are and find cheap but quality players that can play immediately. If Hughes is responsible for the talent at Bournemouth then he did a great job.

Slot is under the blow torch - if they don't bolster the squad then they should come under scrutiny as not bolstering the squad given the circumstances is negligence.

We still don't know what is happening with Konate and his contract.

Surely it makes sense to bring at least one centre back in now and get them used to our style of play etc. Rather than wait until year end and then spend time early next season bedding down the partnership and or defensive 3 or 4.

Right back position is up in the air. Zero chance you could go into next season with Bradley as your first choice right back.

Kerkez is getting better but still has lapses in games. Robertson will leave at seasons end so that's another position to fill.

If Slot does survive then I can't help but feel the strong message from. Edwards/Hughes is going to be, starting playing and developing kids from the academy.

 

[FreoRicci]

Can he play CB?



Reminds of the days when Can was deployed as a CB

Wasn’t a bad idea too.
I’d just play Gravenberch out the back.

Slot really needs to try a 3 man CB. Helps with Bradley now out for a long period on the right. Frimpong can play higher.

 

[Mr Meow]

Wasn’t a bad idea too.
I’d just play Gravenberch out the back.

Slot really needs to try a 3 man CB. Helps with Bradley now out for a long period on the right. Frimpong can play higher.

Although not at last season's level, Gravenberch is still a decent CDM at the moment. He's better in front of the box than defending in it. Move him to a back 3 and we lose our midfield core. Not a good idea.

We've conceded 8 goals in our last 10 games - nowhere near as leaky as the month or 2 preceding. 3 of those goals were in 1 game where Konate had a meltdown, but he's been solid since.

 

[Mr Meow]

Mo scored for Egypt again and they're through to the semis.

I haven't been watching, but their progression and Mo getting on the scoresheet a few times may lift his spirits. I can see him finishing the campaign in good form.

 

[Zidane98]

Mo scored for Egypt again and they're through to the semis.

I haven't been watching, but their progression and Mo getting on the scoresheet a few times may lift his spirits. I can see him finishing the campaign in good form.

Yes it's a good thing.

He seems embarrassed about the whole blow up, probably a little frustrated that he can't keep up his world class levels and will come back hungry & motivated to prove a point.