Autopsy Round 02 Swans defeated by Hawthorn

[SwansProudly]

A hard fought contest against the Hawks at the MCG but we go down by 17-points.

 

[bedford]

I don't know what was wrong, there was a Hawks goal early that resulted from a missed tackle from Rowbottom. His attack on that player wasn't AFL standard.

That was pathetic

 

[melbournehammer]

Excellent points on the forwards. When you play against teams stacked with tall defenders like that, you have to create separation, and get them moving. Even if it may be relatively 'fruitless' for that particular piece of play - you need to move a lot, lead a lot and wear them out. They did it to us at the other end well, and it was only their poor kicking that didn't see it result in several more goals. But a lot of that came from the hard work done in earlier quarters moving our defenders around. We were so stagnant in the forward line and concentrated the Hawks defenders could have had a picnic for 10 minutes and not missed anything in terms of players trying to drag them around the forward line.

With the current group, it should be McDonald and Curnow getting on their bike to push up and lead, and probably Amartey/Grundy when resting being the tall that stays back towards the goal square as the key tall target.

Curnow couldn't clunk one for love or money last night - but 5 pluggers down front would have struggled last night given the quality of ball coming in from our preferred 'high long and dump' kick style of forward entry.

except i dont think this was right. it may have been in the forward line but even then not so much. there was plenty of space often just the kicking in the forward line left a lot to be desired. mcinerney and corey both scrubbed kicks, papley got one which was called not 15, and roberts and lloyd screwed up 2 v 1 just outside 50 leading to just up and under kicks.

part of this is that we seem to have no idea how to enter forward fifty except at breakneck speed. anything else and we might as well just give the other team the ball

the dump kicks to the wings werent due to congested play - in fact if anything it wasnt congested enough. it was two on two at centre wing - its just that sicily and barass beat curnow and whoever was on siciliy - sometimes warner sometimes jordan just too easily.

 

[Tedeski]

Not the worst loss but frustrating as hell.

If Hawks kicked straight would have been a lot worse.

Same time, was inconsistently adjudacated on the umpires end.

Gripes and whinging aside...

Man our talls kinda sucked in the category of "being a target up the line". All three of our key sometimes did it. We need them to consistently do it. There are three of you. Sort it out. Take turns.

Plan B down the line does not work. Hasn't worked for us for awhile. Need to sharpen up some lateral ball movement to break open play and then look for corridor kick. Poor coaching as seems a really simple fix considering how we play.

Two players (although phenomenal) should not kill our ball movement and fluency as much as they did last night. The fact we do not have four or five players able to take aspects of their game is baffling and shows a very soft underbelly if a team can take advantage.

Defence was all out to see last night. Likely on the back of poor midfield defensive running and... well disorganisation.

Anyway, onwards to the bye

Shouldn’t lose that.

 

[bedford]

A caller to SEN completely blamed Cox
Must be off BF

 

[melbournehammer]

Let alone the 357 times when we had two (or even three a couple of times) defenders go for the same ball and take each other out. Do they think its silent football or something..... we do it week in, week out and it invariably costs us a couple of goals every week.


We will have to try it at some point or we will break Grundy a long time before the finals. Amartey and McDonald are not the answers in the ruck at the best of times, let alone against two genuine rucks.


The end is coming quick for both of them sadly. I think Rampe playing the right role in the back 6 still has enough to give, but I just don't see it with Lloyd in this wing/half forward flank sort of role. He isn't a goal threat, he hasn't got the pace to provide significant pressure act, has never been a particularly amazing tackler.

They may well still be there all season, but equally it would not surprise me if both drop out of the team by about the mid point of the season either.

one of my remaining memories from 2006 was ben matthews and leo barry literally running into each other and the ball spilling to some west coast player to run in uncontested.

its been happening for a long time

 

[mcs095]

except i dont think this was right. it may have been in the forward line but even then not so much. there was plenty of space often just the kicking in the forward line left a lot to be desired. mcinerney and corey both scrubbed kicks, papley got one which was called not 15, and roberts and lloyd screwed up 2 v 1 just outside 50 leading to just up and under kicks.

part of this is that we seem to have no idea how to enter forward fifty except at breakneck speed. anything else and we might as well just give the other team the ball

the dump kicks to the wings werent due to congested play - in fact if anything it wasnt congested enough. it was two on two at centre wing - its just that sicily and barass beat curnow and whoever was on siciliy - sometimes warner sometimes jordan just too easily.

The delivery was ordinary but the forwards for large chunks of the game were not nearly moving enough either. You are right about how garbage a lot of the delivery in was - but my point more was focused on the fact you need to take away the strengths of quality defenders by making them work. And our forward line didn't do that enough. Look at the player tracker data and it shows the story.

 

[mcs095]

one of my remaining memories from 2006 was ben matthews and leo barry literally running into each other and the ball spilling to some west coast player to run in uncontested.

its been happening for a long time

Yep its part of the fabric of the club these days lol.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

In an ideal world, he would be playing ressies at the moment imho. I know he is working his way back from fitness, but he looks a very long way short of a gallop still, and his kicking at the moment has been ordinary at best. Adding very, very little. Hopefully will work into it over next few weeks, but the sooner the better please. Game 200 against Wet Toast might get him going perhaps.

The bye for him is perfect I haven’t looked at the Ressies draw but if there’s a game next week I’d play Paps there

 

[bedford]

Love the number 14 but the one in yellow last night is a f ing cheat and then there's the bald one

 

[MF]

I think a few people are underselling Rosas defensive pressure a bit. Last night in the first half especially he was a major reason Hawthorn had so much trouble getting the ball out of defensive 50. Last year our forward 50 was screaming for more defensive pressure and I think he's made a bit of a difference.

 

[MF]

In an ideal world, he would be playing ressies at the moment imho. I know he is working his way back from fitness, but he looks a very long way short of a gallop still, and his kicking at the moment has been ordinary at best. Adding very, very little. Hopefully will work into it over next few weeks, but the sooner the better please. Game 200 against Wet Toast might get him going perhaps.

Yeah Papley just isn't one of those players that comes good quickly after a lay off. Always seems to need a month before he's any good.

 

[Maddo11]

Love all the Victorians saying we lost the Curnow trade. Yeah, because Hayward would have definitely gone better against Sicily and Barrass....

 

[Banyo Bloods]

We sit bottom for free kick differentials since 2000

I want to see the club risk fines and call it out to potentially stop this 25 year long issue.

If Dean Cox

Dean Cox

Age

44

Ht

203cm

Wt

107kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

6.9

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

G

0.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

5.8

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

G

0.0

1star

wants to shine in my eyes then stop playing the straight bat for once and make some noise that makes umps nervous to create such a discrepancy. If someone has individual stats for umps besides the AFL then call out the umps that subconciously create this differential.

Whinging about umps is so pathetic but I'm pathetic so there it is.

Thursday night losses are not good for a guy with my negative head space.

 

[Cadsky]

Gulden, Heeney, Cunningham and Campbell are all best 23 players for us and out of the side.

5 day break, with travel against a potential top 4 side this year.

To be right in it to the end is a fantastic effort, I'm not concerned about this loss at all.

Felt like we stopped attacking the middle as we got tired, so that will be something to work on.

Pretty much my thoughts. There's a lot of doom and gloom in here for a 3 goal loss to a top 4 side while missing our two best

 

[The King!]

McDonald 3 weeks back from missing a full season is promising so far , not perfect by any stretch can go missing, but confidence is growing.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

McDonald 3 weeks back from missing a full season is promising so far , not perfect by any stretch can go missing, but confidence is growing.

Missing a ankle to! not bad at all

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Pretty much my thoughts. There's a lot of doom and gloom in here for a 3 goal loss to a top 4 side while missing our two best

Actually more concerning is some doom and gloom around the Curnow trade already from a 2 game sample size.

 

[Tedeski]

A caller to SEN completely blamed Cox
Must be off BF

Not everyone is on Bigfooty.
I actually don't believe Cox has adjusted too much from what Horse had implemented a few years back.

I can'e remember the year but it was against Richmond at the MCG early in the season in a day game.
McDonald's first season & Chad Warner emerged. Buddy missed that game too.
We played the same attacking footy as now & surprised the Tigers who were a better team than the Hawks were last night.
I don't think we have changed much at all but rather the stand rule has assisted the teams in attacking quicker.

The coaches, Cox mainly, are guilty of falling in love with the gun marking forward & building a gameplan around that.
Get the ball in quick so to speak. But our entries without Errol are trash. Add to that the lack of one of our big forwards being able to take a contested grab & we have a team with Buddy mark 2.

Our game style is the same, but the rules have made us look flashier against the ordinary teams in patches.

Other than that, all I saw on the G last night were the same core group of players that were out of their depth & monstered on the MCG GFs of 2022 & 2024. Just older with the same traits & a sprinkling of fringe players thrown in.

Last night just reinforced in my mind that we are a Plan A football team. If that doesn't work, we go back to the 2020 fotball team.

 

[RilesMacca]

I think a few people are underselling Rosas defensive pressure a bit. Last night in the first half especially he was a major reason Hawthorn had so much trouble getting the ball out of defensive 50. Last year our forward 50 was screaming for more defensive pressure and I think he's made a bit of a difference.

Agreed and I enjoyed his first half. Even being able to half contests when outnumbered, so some positives to take out of his game last night.

Just felt collectively the front half pressure as the game wore on really let us down. Perhaps the predictable high balls zapped our energy because when the ball hit ground level we struggled to stick tackles and win the ball back enough. Nevertheless it feels like we have a promising asset at our disposal with what he can do.

 

[caesar88]

A caller to SEN completely blamed Cox
Must be off BF

To be fair, I think the coaches are ultimately to blame, but for sins of their past, not what they did or didn't do last night. I've said for years that they've let too many of our players be front-runners with no other dimension to their game at all except run-and-gun. Not only have they allowed it, in some cases they've actively rewarded it. Not just Cox - most of the damage was actually done in Horse's last few years. The club just hasn't cared about things like defence or the contest or pressure or anything of the sort for too long now.

That's why the same thing happens every time we can't run-and-gun.

 

[mcs095]

McDonald 3 weeks back from missing a full season is promising so far , not perfect by any stretch can go missing, but confidence is growing.

Yep I think he is starting to build into the season nicely. Hands still not as sticky as we would hope, but that will come with game time. Really think he is critical to our chances this year.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

We sit bottom for free kick differentials since 2000

I want to see the club risk fines and call it out to potentially stop this 25 year long issue.

If Dean Cox wants to shine in my eyes then stop playing the straight bat for once and make some noise that makes umps nervous to create such a discrepancy. If someone has individual stats for umps besides the AFL then call out the umps that subconciously create this differential.

Whinging about umps is so pathetic but I'm pathetic so there it is.

Thursday night losses are not good for a guy with my negative head space.

We don’t create a hostile atmosphere at the SCG.

We create happy-joy-joy-sing-alongs.

Which is the root cause of the free kick differential.

Do we want hostility? Some do, some don’t.

But for now, we’re stuck with Disco Barbie.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

I think a few people are underselling Rosas defensive pressure a bit. Last night in the first half especially he was a major reason Hawthorn had so much trouble getting the ball out of defensive 50. Last year our forward 50 was screaming for more defensive pressure and I think he's made a bit of a difference.

Sorry to be “that guy”, but I think a few people are overselling Rosas game.

He hardly touched it after the first 10 minutes. Was fumbly when he did get near it. And I’m not sure I see that much defensive pressure - it’s certainly no more than what Hayward used to offer.

He’s never going to be a high-possession player, but last night he was part of a very poor forward line.

But - there is an excuse for Rosas last night, because unless the talls start halving contests & bringing it to ground, Rosas is always going to be limited in what he can do.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Not everyone is on Bigfooty.
I actually don't believe Cox has adjusted too much from what Horse had implemented a few years back.

I can'e remember the year but it was against Richmond at the MCG early in the season in a day game.
McDonald's first season & Chad Warner emerged. Buddy missed that game too.
We played the same attacking footy as now & surprised the Tigers who were a better team than the Hawks were last night.
I don't think we have changed much at all but rather the stand rule has assisted the teams in attacking quicker.

The coaches, Cox mainly, are guilty of falling in love with the gun marking forward & building a gameplan around that.
Get the ball in quick so to speak. But our entries without Errol are trash. Add to that the lack of one of our big forwards being able to take a contested grab & we have a team with Buddy mark 2.

Our game style is the same, but the rules have made us look flashier against the ordinary teams in patches.

Other than that, all I saw on the G last night were the same core group of players that were out of their depth & monstered on the MCG GFs of 2022 & 2024. Just older with the same traits & a sprinkling of fringe players thrown in.

Last night just reinforced in my mind that we are a Plan A football team. If that doesn't work, we go back to the 2020 fotball team.

From what i got is this fast transition with handball(run and gun) through the middle is either going to make or break Cox he was resolute in his presser that this is the style with strong 2 way defending is the way he wants us to play.

When pressed if it was sustainable by a journo he said yes.

 

[Tedeski]

with strong 2 way defending is the way he wants us to play.

Keep me posted on when he implements it.