List Mgmt. 2026 List management - pt.1

[Sarcoidevo]

How good was that Easter Monday game. We are so far off these 2 sides it’s not funny

The last quarter was a mistake ridden mess

We beat that same Geelong side last year

 

[ScrappyDo]

Reality is none of us will ever REALLY know the detailed ins and outs of Jack Steele - Ross Lyon / Coaching Group dynamic and how it all went down towards the last 2 years and last off season, but what seems obvious now (and was evident in a few media exchanges and stories over the last few years) is the opinion of Steele from Ross was not exactly glowing. Steele also in recent media exchanges has made it pretty clear he feels invigorated by a new coaching group that seemingly back him (implying a lack of from the end of his Saints tenure) and how much pressure has been released by not having the captaincy this year.

None of these factors happen in isolation from each other, so who knows how much each weighed on each party, but Jack had his exit interview last year and resigned from the captaincy, the club then called him back in the next day and told he should maybe look elsewhere because we weren't sure he'd get a starting gig. All in all, pretty messy and a bit ham-fisted from the club IMO based on the club and Steele's telling of events.

The thing that gets to me about all this is the fact Jack Steele worked as hard and shouldered as much burden as anyone for this club over the last 3 or 4 years, and whether perception or reality, he didn't feel like he had that backed up by the coaches. The bloke played out a game in 2023 with a completely broken and floating collarbone, was brought back in only a 3 weeks and expected to lead our midfield group with very little support (Seb Ross, half cooked Brad Crouch and group of youngsters), then when we start to turn a corner and group of young players he supported while they developed (Windy, Nas, Owens, Pou, Garcia etc.) is told look elsewhere.

I would hope the club board/admin at least have reviewed how it was all handled and went fown, even if the outcome was right for all parties, it's been a bit of a dumpster fire from the leaked pre-season audio of coaches box up until the eventual parting ways with Steele.

As a fan of Jack from the start, l cannot escape the reality that he was one of the ringleaders of the drinking culture prior to RTB and he would generally respond to adversity by going into his shell. He had a great couple of years, but when professional standards were applied to the club he suddenly didn't enjoy it anymore and unfortunately his ability to be popular greatly exceeded his ability to lead.
The people latching on to this issue are the same ones who've been incessantly potting the club and coach for the last month over any minute irrelevance they can scrape up. Doesn't mean it's a real thing..

 

[Hayes4PM]

As a fan of Jack from the start, l cannot escape the reality that he was one of the ringleaders of the drinking culture prior to RTB and he would generally respond to adversity by going into his shell. He had a great couple of years, but when professional standards were applied to the club he suddenly didn't enjoy it anymore and unfortunately his ability to be popular greatly exceeded his ability to lead.
The people latching on to this issue are the same ones who've been incessantly potting the club and coach for the last month over any minute irrelevance they can scrape up. Doesn't mean it's a real thing..

I didn't even realise this was a thing? Interesting. I think the club has had a bit of a leadership void since Roo retired honestly. Geary and Steele the only 2 since Roo retired, Steele almost having it thrust upon him, admitting early days he didn't see himself as a captain. Big test for Wilkie and Sincs this year.

 

[Captain Paddy]

I didn't even realise this was a thing? Interesting. I think the club has had a bit of a leadership void since Roo retired honestly. Geary and Steele the only 2 since Roo retired, Steele almost having it thrust upon him, admitting early days he didn't see himself as a captain. Big test for Wilkie and Sincs this year.

By all accounts Ross was appalled by the training/fitness standards at the club.

Ratts wanted to be everyone’s mate and Richo was so disrespected by the playing group that only a handful of players turned up to his house when he hosted a dinner for team bonding.

You look at all the first round picks we had in that era that showed genuine promise early but ended up amounting to nothing because they didn’t continue to grow and improve when compared to their peers.

Ross doubters can say or make up whatever they want about him or his game plan.

But at the end of the day, the only time we have had a genuinely professional list and club in the last 20 years was when he was coaching the club.

 

[StCicatriz]

Maybe Lachie Neale - at the right price, would be a good move. Would give us a considerable boost in the midfield while Pou and the rest of the gang get to where they need to be

Only if we get him to 100 games

Bloke will probably have 100 kids by 2028

 

[westernsainter]

Mcrae copped a punctured lung you

Yeah and he's the wrong side of 30, do you think he's going to get back to that level? This thread is genuinely just a list of excuses.

 

[TheJackal]

Jack was a 'reluctant captain' of our club and in the end wasn't 100% all in. I once overheard him bagging out the coaches to mates that came to watch him after training - from any player in public earshot - thats a disgrace.

He's a nice guy, but he hadn't been super happy with us for a long time. I was a bit disappointed at what we got from Melbourne for him - but I don't for a second regret us trading him.

We were never going to be able to develop Garcia, Pou, Boxshall or Banfield with Steele there. We've been unlucky that Macrae hasn't been fit but that couldn't have been foreseen.

The next one going down the same path as Jack is Roma, who seems to be lacking drive and passion this year. I hope he can turn it around...

 

[ScrappyDo]

Yeah and he's the wrong side of 30, do you think he's going to get back to that level? This thread is genuinely just a list of excuses.

It's also a list of idiots.

 

[Dard Ball Get]

Yeah and he's the wrong side of 30, do you think he's going to get back to that level? This thread is genuinely just a list of excuses.

Why not? Many examples of players playing very well post thirty. Or are you just looking for another reason to sook it up as is your way?

 

[mad-saint-guy]

I didn't mind moving Steele on as his output hadn't been up to scratch for several years...but seeing his recent form and comments about a simplified role and support from the head coach makes you wonder if Lyon mismanaged him. He was clearly pushed to play while far from 100%.

But with that said, I'd need to see him sustain this form for quite a lot longer before declaring that we made a mistake by pushing him out (and yes, he was clearly encouraged to find another club)

 

[Teflon]

I didn't mind moving Steele on as his output hadn't been up to scratch for several years...but seeing his recent form and comments about a simplified role and support from the head coach makes you wonder if Lyon mismanaged him. He was clearly pushed to play while far from 100%.

But with that said, I'd need to see him sustain this form for quite a lot longer before declaring that we made a mistake by pushing him out (and yes, he was clearly encouraged to find another club)

Does it really matter ?
The decision based on his last 2 years output and our need to give younger mids a go (at a time where McRae offered better value) was sensible
Good luck to him at Dees - he’s salty obviously hence why he brings it up and I can understand that no one likes being moved on …but for the betterment of our club it was the right call …he’s 31 not in our next flag set up

 

[BucketsandBanger]

I said as much in another thread

Reading some of the reactionary opinions on here you would think Steele has thrown Melbourne on his back and single handedly dragged the Demons to their wins ..... nothing to do with Gawn, Pickett, Lever & open functioning forwardline ..... its all Jack Steele ...... just hilarious

The biggest issue we should have watching the Melbourne games is why can’t we free up NAS like Pickett. Pickett is not a better player than NAS but much more impactful to start the year.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

Does it really matter ?
The decision based on his last 2 years output and our need to give younger mids a go (at a time where McRae offered better value) was sensible
Good luck to him at Dees - he’s salty obviously hence why he brings it up and I can understand that no one likes being moved on …but for the betterment of our club it was the right call …he’s 31 not in our next flag set up

Yep I'd say concerns about the head coach mismanaging the club captain for multiple years and not getting the best out of him does matter.

We have a horrid record of older players falling off a cliff, meanwhile the likes of Collingwood, Hawthorn and Geelong have guys playing elite footy well into their mid 30s. We declared Steele cooked and traded him at age 29 (he will won't be 31 until December)

 

[stavro#4]

Yep I'd say concerns about the head coach mismanaging the club captain for multiple years and not getting the best out of him does matter.

We have a horrid record of older players falling off a cliff, meanwhile the likes of Collingwood, Hawthorn and Geelong have guys playing elite footy well into their mid 30s. We declared Steele cooked and traded him at age 29 (he will won't be 31 until December)

When you say this stuff do you ignore that Wood is still playing and had his best years under Ross in his 30s.

Hill is back to being good.

Wilkie… Sinclair.

But please be hyper focused on Steele and ignore the rest

 

[gringo2011]

The biggest issue we should have watching the Melbourne games is why can’t we free up NAS like Pickett. Pickett is not a better player than NAS but much more impactful to start the year.

Part of that is that Pickett has been around a bit longer and learnt to break free of tags. We shut him down well though. Just let others off the chain. We need others to do that.

 

[Blended]

How good was that Easter Monday game. We are so far off these 2 sides it’s not funny

I sat on Level 4 as a neutral with a Cats mate and couldn’t disagree more.

 

[Ricmel]

We have a deeper pool of young talent this time. Probably lucky if one in 10 becomes elite and you'd expect 2 out of every 10 to not make it. The middle pool usually range from A and B graders to GOPs. We are also finding a few outside the first round.

Kids like Hall, Boxshall, Garcia etc all look equally as likely as our FRDPs. The problem back then was that we weren't adding enough talent to push them out.

We have one elite player (Nas), a few A graders- Wilkie, Sincs, Hall, a bunch of Bs - TDK, Flanders, Higgins, Windy, Owens, Hill, Wilson, You, Silvagni etc.

The list is much much better than it has been in a long while. If we can get King back and guys currently inconsistent move up to push into B grade, we should improve fast. Need a bit of injury luck too.

We THINK we do. It is all just on paper at the moment. Go back to 2017/18 - you will see the same type of hype around our young talent as you see today. We can be as optimistic as we like but until this team starts to put together consistent winning performances they are just a bunch of potential.

 

[stavro#4]

We THINK we do. It is all just on paper at the moment. Go back to 2017/18 - you will see the same type of hype around our young talent as you see today. We can be as optimistic as we like but until this team starts to put together consistent winning performances they are just a bunch of potential.

Hindsight is very interesting here. This is our 2018 list: https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2018/st-kilda

We lost the following in their primes playing great football: Steven, Armitage & Roberton

Looking like handy Pieces who we missed due to Injury: Stevens & Carlisle

Careers wiped out by injury: McCartin, Goddard, Gresham, Paton, Dmac, Freeman, Coffield, Clark, Longer


Im not sure if that's normal, Looking at that its like the club was just murdering black cats under ladders by breaking mirrors on them type of thing. Its a horrific run to lose so many to injuries.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

How good was that Easter Monday game. We are so far off these 2 sides it’s not funny

The differing perspective from posters is interesting.

I thought it was the best game Ive seen all year, both sides skills, efficiency and speed of ball movement was far superior to ours.

Both sides depth of talent was ridiculous, but Hawthorn when you can have Sicily, Weddel and Scrimshaw playing on medium talls is something we can only dream of. Then they had 3 x dangerous and versatile tall forwards in Gunstan, Chol and Lewis plus their smalls in the forward line made for a very good game.

The significant step up from our side, was their slick ball movement and how both forward lines were able to create space and deliver to leading forwards. That is something our past coaches havent been able to acheive since we had Reiwoldt, Gehrig and Hamill playing.

Both teams work for each other and are much better drilled in screening and moving for their team mates.

We have a few individual quality players, but both the Hawks and Geelong had very good players all over the park. Even their role players are that well drilled they know exactly what is required and rarely make mistakes.

I agree with others we are long long way behind those teams in terms of quality and their ability to work their systems.

 

[The Punter]

The differing perspective from posters is interesting.

I thought it was the best game Ive seen all year, both sides skills, efficiency and speed of ball movement was far superior to ours.

Both sides depth of talent was ridiculous, but Hawthorn when you can have Sicily, Weddel and Scrimshaw playing on medium talls is something we can only dream of. Then they had 3 x dangerous and versatile tall forwards in Gunstan, Chol and Lewis plus their smalls in the forward line made for a very good game.

The significant step up from our side, was their slick ball movement and how both forward lines were able to create space and deliver to leading forwards. That is something our past coaches havent been able to acheive since we had Reiwoldt, Gehrig and Hamill playing.

Both teams work for each other and are much better drilled in screening and moving for their team mates.

We have a few individual quality players, but both the Hawks and Geelong had very good players all over the park. Even their role players are that well drilled they know exactly what is required and rarely make mistakes.

I agree with others we are long long way behind those teams in terms of quality and their ability to work their systems.

What I don't understand about the forward movement is why we haven't been able to get it right for so long.

I remember watching us in 2004 from my level 2 HFF vantage point and seeing how players led through space, but never stayed in space, so the space was then available for someone else.

Considering other teams manage it (Hawthorn have perhaps the best front six group in the league), I just can't wrap my head around why we cannot. We have talent, they appear coachable (look at how Higgins plays now compared to 2022), and we still end up with three marking forwards 60m away from a wing stoppage and no one inside 50. When we get a mark/free kick 70m out, we all know where the ball is going to be kicked to. It's predictable and holds us back, because we have the cattle down back and have massive scope for improvement in the middle.

 

[g_TRAIN]

What I don't understand about the forward movement is why we haven't been able to get it right for so long.

I remember watching us in 2004 from my level 2 HFF vantage point and seeing how players led through space, but never stayed in space, so the space was then available for someone else.

Considering other teams manage it (Hawthorn have perhaps the best front six group in the league), I just can't wrap my head around why we cannot. We have talent, they appear coachable (look at how Higgins plays now compared to 2022), and we still end up with three marking forwards 60m away from a wing stoppage and no one inside 50. When we get a mark/free kick 70m out, we all know where the ball is going to be kicked to. It's predictable and holds us back, because we have the cattle down back and have massive scope for improvement in the middle.

IMO It’s a combination of past teams lacking the required skill level, the current team being slightly overrated by fans in that area, and a game plan that has a heavy reliance on players running deep both ways all day.

Our forwards are doing significantly more defensive ground coverage than those in some other teams. We compress the ground more length wise than most teams as well.

 

[SainterinSydney]

Hindsight is very interesting here. This is our 2018 list: https://www.draftguru.com.au/lists/2018/st-kilda

We lost the following in their primes playing great football: Steven, Armitage & Roberton

Looking like handy Pieces who we missed due to Injury: Stevens & Carlisle

Careers wiped out by injury: McCartin, Goddard, Gresham, Paton, Dmac, Freeman, Coffield, Clark, Longer


Im not sure if that's normal, Looking at that its like the club was just murdering black cats under ladders by breaking mirrors on them type of thing. Its a horrific run to lose so many to injuries.

Especially where one of those is a no. 1 pick.

 

[The Punter]

At the end of 2017 Dylan Roberton

17

Dylan Roberton

Age

34

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.1

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.9

4star

MG

373.2

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

7.0

3star

HB

1.0

1star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.0

1star

MG

215.0

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

4.4

4star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

had just made the AA squad and was 26 years old. He played five more AFL games.

 

[Mav3rick]

Ryan probably the best of our recruits so far. Might not get alot of the ball, but when he does is all class.
DeKoning & Silvagni are serviceable & have filled list holes.
Flanders accumulates, but his distribution is disappointing & iffy atm.

I think the narrative of Flanders being a butcher is a bit overblown. He has hit a lot of targets going inside 50, especially as compared to the rest of our midfield. Some of his handballing has been average but he's made some nice plays as well. Playing in a new team, new role and isn't even a 100-gamer yet, I think he's going pretty well.

De Koning is the one who really needs to lift his output imo he's shown flashes but we need more than flashes.

 

[Mav3rick]

How good was that Easter Monday game. We are so far off these 2 sides it’s not funny

I thought the skill level shown in that game was pretty abhorrent. Constant mistakes despite their being acres of space and defensive lapses everywhere. Pressure and atmosphere was awesome but don't think we're far off those sides at all.