List Mgmt. 2026 List management - pt.1

[BucketsandBanger]

The differing perspective from posters is interesting.

I thought it was the best game Ive seen all year, both sides skills, efficiency and speed of ball movement was far superior to ours.

Both sides depth of talent was ridiculous, but Hawthorn when you can have Sicily, Weddel and Scrimshaw playing on medium talls is something we can only dream of. Then they had 3 x dangerous and versatile tall forwards in Gunstan, Chol and Lewis plus their smalls in the forward line made for a very good game.

The significant step up from our side, was their slick ball movement and how both forward lines were able to create space and deliver to leading forwards. That is something our past coaches havent been able to acheive since we had Reiwoldt, Gehrig and Hamill playing.

Both teams work for each other and are much better drilled in screening and moving for their team mates.

We have a few individual quality players, but both the Hawks and Geelong had very good players all over the park. Even their role players are that well drilled they know exactly what is required and rarely make mistakes.

I agree with others we are long long way behind those teams in terms of quality and their ability to work their systems.

I think it’s all coaching, especially Mitchell. Hawthorns list is not that amazing. They’ve hit on one top pick (Watson) and others that have either failed or are meh. Their starting midfield without Day is very average on paper and their bottom 4 or 5 wouldn’t be better than ours. Scott is the best in the business and Mitchell is an absolute gun. Hawthorn are a huge outlier in the equalisation discussion and how they have been able to go do go down and then come back up again whilst the likes of us continue to be mediocre.

Our list has a lot of talent that the coaches need to start to get more out of.

 

[SainterinSydney]

At the end of 2017 Dylan Roberton had just made the AA squad and was 26 years old. He played five more AFL games.

The universe works in mysterious ways--if Roberton hadn't gone down, we likely wouldn't have taken Wilkie:

St Kilda rookie Callum Wilkie has gone from life as an accountant to life in the AFL in the past six months

The SANFL star who went from punching numbers to the AFL

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[akaifu]

James Mikhael with 24 disposals and 8 marks on the weekend for Sandy Drags

Was an NGA for us last year but went undrafted. Could be a sneaky chance this year

 

[hayes]

I think it’s all coaching, especially Mitchell. Hawthorns list is not that amazing. They’ve hit on one top pick (Watson) and others that have either failed or are meh. Their starting midfield without Day is very average on paper and their bottom 4 or 5 wouldn’t be better than ours. Scott is the best in the business and Mitchell is an absolute gun. Hawthorn are a huge outlier in the equalisation discussion and how they have been able to go do go down and then come back up again whilst the likes of us continue to be mediocre.

Our list has a lot of talent that the coaches need to start to get more out of.

Freo hurt our father son and academy argument as well. They’ve nailed their top picks and all their other ones by the looks of it. At some point North will hurt our argument as well IMO, when it turns for them it will turn big with all their early draft picks.

 

[The Punter]

Freo hurt our father son and academy argument as well. They’ve nailed their top picks and all their other ones by the looks of it. At some point North will hurt our argument as well IMO, when it turns for them it will turn big with all their early draft picks.

They've traded a lot of draft capital out. Have benefitted from a massive go home factor combined with the worst period in Eagles history.

And this iteration have one finals win to show for it. I'm officially pumping the brakes.

As I have said everywhere, two things can be true at the same time. St Kilda haven't drafted well. But we've also been hamstrung by the system.

This. Every team played a prelim in the 2000s. This was partly due to the automatic priority pick.

2000-2002: 11 wins, 2 draws, 53 losses, 5 top 5 picks
2013-2015: 15 wins, 1 draw, 50 losses, 2 top 5 picks

Access to elite talent.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

When you say this stuff do you ignore that Wood is still playing and had his best years under Ross in his 30s.

Hill is back to being good.

Wilkie… Sinclair.

But please be hyper focused on Steele and ignore the rest

Wood, who declined significantly last season and is looking pretty cooked this year so far at 32?

Props to Hill, he is looking very good this year at 32. As a talented veteran should.

We should be aiming to get our veterans playing good footy through to 33-35

 

[stavro#4]

Wood, who declined significantly last season and is looking pretty cooked this year so far at 32?

Props to Hill, he is looking very good this year at 32. As a talented veteran should.

We should be aiming to get our veterans playing good footy through to 33-35

So you have already back peddled here.

Because nows its focusing on Wood, who has stood up in key moments even if he is well down.

Wilkie and Sinclair are probably our 2 best performed players. Hill would be In our top 10.

the issue isn't our elder statesmen it isn't even the 4 we have brought in.

It's the youth we have backed. Now it may be a case of ebbs and flows. But they need to find 4 quarter consistency immediately.

Wilson, Pou, Tauru, Hall, Nas, Windy, Owens.Caminiti, Garcia, Hastie, Boxshall, Travaglia.

these guys all need to rise - even Nas who has been good without hitting the heights we talked him up to.

 

[gringo2011]

I sat on Level 4 as a neutral with a Cats mate and couldn’t disagree more.

It was a great game but it wasn't a display of elite skills or beautiful footy. We aren't great at finishing off our work but we aren't noticeably worse than either. We were on top of Brisbane for a lot of the last match and a bit of a lucky break saw them roll over us from a some arsy goals. A couple our way and who knows. Footy can be a pretty cruel game and being 10% off on a few areas cost you a lot.

We really need a good win to kick start us.

 

[littlecreatures]

Yep I'd say concerns about the head coach mismanaging the club captain for multiple years and not getting the best out of him does matter.

We have a horrid record of older players falling off a cliff, meanwhile the likes of Collingwood, Hawthorn and Geelong have guys playing elite footy well into their mid 30s. We declared Steele cooked and traded him at age 29 (he will won't be 31 until December)

Is there similar examples of players at other clubs who’ve played solely inside mid into their 30s?

Mitchell recently retired relatively early, Cripps is struggling, Seb Ross looked incredibly slow before he retired. I’d be keen to see how Neale goes in coming years.

 

[Minga]

Jack was a 'reluctant captain' of our club and in the end wasn't 100% all in. I once overheard him bagging out the coaches to mates that came to watch him after training - from any player in public earshot - thats a disgrace.

He's a nice guy, but he hadn't been super happy with us for a long time. I was a bit disappointed at what we got from Melbourne for him - but I don't for a second regret us trading him.

We were never going to be able to develop Garcia, Pou, Boxshall or Banfield with Steele there. We've been unlucky that Macrae hasn't been fit but that couldn't have been foreseen.

The next one going down the same path as Jack is Roma, who seems to be lacking drive and passion this year. I hope he can turn it around...

Yep, haven’t rated Steele for several years now. Just something seemed off both as a player and a leader. Also heard some negative things on the grapevine too which just basically made me disinterested in his character. Fits right in at Melbourne though, suits their list well.

IMO, he is the poster boy for the first half of the decade for the Saints. Some high highs, close to the top of the heap but never really threatening to be one of the out and out best in the comp. Otherwise seemed disaffected and just a bit… uninspiring.

Hope he gets back to his best at Melbourne, but as many others have said, was never going to be a game changer for us outside of that 2020/2021/2022 Covid golden run.

 

[stavro#4]

Hey positive..

we currently have pick 5 in the draft.

which would mean we would get 2 First Round picks. pick 5 (which would become pick 7) and the free end of first round pick under the new rules!

 

[Hayes4PM]

Hey positive..

we currently have pick 5 in the draft.

which would mean we would get 2 First Round picks. pick 5 (which would become pick 7) and the free end of first round pick under the new rules!

Excuse me..?? The **** is this? Any top 5 pick qualifies you for an end of first round pick??? Are you telling me amongst the chorus of clubs, ex players and ex AFL admin calling to revise the compromised draft the AFL are now turning around and further ****ing with it?

**** me this sport is hard to take seriously sometimes...

 

[stavro#4]

Excuse me..?? The **** is this? Any top 5 pick qualifies you for an end of first round pick??? Are you telling me amongst the chorus of clubs, ex players and ex AFL admin calling to revise the compromised draft the AFL are now turning around and further ****ing with it?

**** me this sport is hard to take seriously sometimes...

If you have a top 5 pick and Father Sons/Academy picks are bid on in the top 5 and turn your top 5 pick into 6+ the AFL is going to compensate clubs with an End of First round pick

 

[westernsainter]

They've traded a lot of draft capital out. Have benefitted from a massive go home factor combined with the worst period in Eagles history.

And this iteration have one finals win to show for it. I'm officially pumping the brakes.

As I have said everywhere, two things can be true at the same time. St Kilda haven't drafted well. But we've also been hamstrung by the system.

They've bought in Jackson, Bolton, Clark and McVee but they've also traded out WA guys Acres, Hill, Hogan and Lobb. They've certainly capitalised on a bit of go-home factor but their list management has been unbelievable.

What's really set them apart is picking like this:

Darcy #38
Cox #41
Ryan #66
Switkowski #73
Schultz #57
Frederick #61
Treacy Rookie Draft #7 (this alone has set them up for a serious flag tilt)
Sharp/Voss/Dudley (and now maybe Scerri) SPP

What always stands out to me is how well they seem to develop talent. I wonder if we just draft poorly or if we are a development quagmire for players.

 

[Diehard Saint]

At the end of 2017 Dylan Roberton had just made the AA squad and was 26 years old. He played five more AFL games.

I forgot he was so young. That was a disaster both for him and the club.

 

[The Punter]

They've bought in Jackson, Bolton, Clark and McVee but they've also traded out WA guys Acres, Hill, Hogan and Lobb. They've certainly capitalised on a bit of go-home factor but their list management has been unbelievable.

What's really set them apart is picking like this:

Darcy #38
Cox #41
Ryan #66
Switkowski #73
Schultz #57
Frederick #61
Treacy Rookie Draft #7 (this alone has set them up for a serious flag tilt)
Sharp/Voss/Dudley (and now maybe Scerri) SPP

What always stands out to me is how well they seem to develop talent. I wonder if we just draft poorly or if we are a development quagmire for players.

I'm in the "we're poor at development" camp and have been for some time. It's ridiculous to think Sydney and Geelong keep finding players deep in drafts. They make them.

Having said that, the next step is the important one for Freo.

 

[BrutThough]

They've bought in Jackson, Bolton, Clark and McVee but they've also traded out WA guys Acres, Hill, Hogan and Lobb. They've certainly capitalised on a bit of go-home factor but their list management has been unbelievable.

What's really set them apart is picking like this:

Darcy #38
Cox #41
Ryan #66
Switkowski #73
Schultz #57
Frederick #61
Treacy Rookie Draft #7 (this alone has set them up for a serious flag tilt)
Sharp/Voss/Dudley (and now maybe Scerri) SPP

What always stands out to me is how well they seem to develop talent. I wonder if we just draft poorly or if we are a development quagmire for players.

You are underestimating their trades because we can write a list just as long and with more accolades impressive of developed late/rookie picks on our best 22.

Their trades and top picks are why are they currently better then us.

 

[thekizzler]

What I don't understand about the forward movement is why we haven't been able to get it right for so long.

I remember watching us in 2004 from my level 2 HFF vantage point and seeing how players led through space, but never stayed in space, so the space was then available for someone else.

Considering other teams manage it (Hawthorn have perhaps the best front six group in the league), I just can't wrap my head around why we cannot. We have talent, they appear coachable (look at how Higgins plays now compared to 2022), and we still end up with three marking forwards 60m away from a wing stoppage and no one inside 50. When we get a mark/free kick 70m out, we all know where the ball is going to be kicked to. It's predictable and holds us back, because we have the cattle down back and have massive scope for improvement in the middle.

This might be a controversial take but I think the footy IQ of a lot of our forwards isn't as high as forwards in other team's attacks.

Max Hall is the exception - he looks to be absolute elite in this area - but he is being used further up the ground this season. And probably Liam Ryan - but we need his hands on the footy more.

We have a decent mix of players up there - but you don't see players blocking for each other, creating space.

To go through each forward individually...

Cooper Sharman - an enigma is capable of doing some creative things with the ball, but he is not great at finding space in the forward 50 and getting marks on the lead in there (as evidenced by the table below). Yes, some of that has to do with delivery but it's also his positioning and footy smarts. Most of his forward 50 marks are jumping into the packs from the side. We need more Gunston type marks on the lead.

Mitch Owens - runs straight lines, works his ass off, competes well and marks well for his size, but his disposal, goalkicking and decision making are not great. He has improved on the lead this season.

Jack Higgins - Higgo is our best forward - but he doesn't really bring other forwards into the game and his defensive pressure can leave a lot desired at times.

They are the only three I'm going to mention as the rest (Roma, Tauru, Butler and whoever else rests in there) are either struggling, too young, not enough sample size or just not forwards in general.

MARKS INSIDE 50 - ST. KILDA

Higgins - 8
Owens - 8
Hall - 4
Sharman - 4
Tauru - 3
Ryan - 3
NWM - 3
Boxshall - 3

Maybe it's the coaching. Maybe we are missing some pieces. Maybe we need more time to gel. But it's hard to see it turning around overnight - especially if it is the player mix.

 

[westernsainter]

You are underestimating their trades because we can write a list just as long and with more accolades impressive of developed late/rookie picks on our best 22.

Their trades and top picks are why are they currently better then us.

Outside of Marshall (2016), Sinclair (2015) and Wilkie (2018) and now probably Max Hall, I'm not sure that's true. Most of our standouts are high-picks or trades.

 

[westernsainter]

This might be a controversial take but I think the footy IQ of a lot of our forwards isn't as high as forwards in other team's attacks.

Max Hall is the exception - he looks to be absolute elite in this area - but he is being used further up the ground this season. And probably Liam Ryan - but we need his hands on the footy more.

We have a decent mix of players up there - but you don't see players blocking for each other, creating space.

To go through each forward individually...

Cooper Sharman - an enigma is capable of doing some creative things with the ball, but he is not great at finding space in the forward 50 and getting marks on the lead in there (as evidenced by the table below). Yes, some of that has to do with delivery but it's also his positioning and footy smarts. Most of his forward 50 marks are jumping into the packs from the side. We need more Gunston type marks on the lead.

Mitch Owens - runs straight lines, works his ass off, competes well and marks well for his size, but his disposal, goalkicking and decision making are not great. He has improved on the lead this season.

Jack Higgins - Higgo is our best forward - but he doesn't really bring other forwards into the game and his defensive pressure can leave a lot desired at times.

They are the only three I'm going to mention as the rest (Roma, Tauru, Butler and whoever else rests in there) are either struggling, too young, not enough sample size or just not forwards in general.

MARKS INSIDE 50 - ST. KILDA

Higgins - 8
Owens - 8
Hall - 4
Sharman - 4
Tauru - 3
Ryan - 3
NWM - 3
Boxshall - 3

Maybe it's the coaching. Maybe we are missing some pieces. Maybe we need more time to gel. But it's hard to see it turning around overnight - especially if it is the player mix.

I think the biggest reason for this is our complete lack of a spearhead. It really does allow opposition defences to set up however best suits them and just play a zone which makes it extremely hard for forwards to find lanes or time in f50.

The decision to let Membrey walk was an absolutely disastrous one and I think we will say the same thing about Steele as this season goes on. If he really was that unhappy there should be some serious questions as to why that was.

 

[BrutThough]

Outside of Marshall (2016), Sinclair (2015) and Wilkie (2018) and now probably Max Hall, I'm not sure that's true. Most of our standouts are high-picks or trades.

Add Sharman as a mid-season, Wood as an SPP signing has been excellent, Stocker and Caminiti been consistent best 22 players as SPP signings. If you are included a pick 38, then Windhager in the 40s deserves a mention. If we are including 'and now maybe Scerri', then Garcia and Boxhall as late picks also are an 'and now maybe'/

We've done extremely well with our selections from late picks or supplemental drafts.

 

[thekizzler]

I think the biggest reason for this is our complete lack of a spearhead. It really does allow opposition defences to set up however best suits them and just play a zone which makes it extremely hard for forwards to find lanes or time in f50.

Yeah - that could be the answer and I hope you're right.

Collingwood really got us that way in the second half - we had 20+ more inside 50's than them.

It would be an easy fix if Max returns and everything falls into place though. We need other targets and options to emerge in the F50 and they haven't really in Max's absence.

It would devastate me if Max returns and they just kick it on his head all day, with Harris Andrews and others getting eight-plus intercept marks.

 

[The Punter]

This might be a controversial take but I think the footy IQ of a lot of our forwards isn't as high as forwards in other team's attacks.

Max Hall is the exception - he looks to be absolute elite in this area - but he is being used further up the ground this season. And probably Liam Ryan - but we need his hands on the footy more.

We have a decent mix of players up there - but you don't see players blocking for each other, creating space.

To go through each forward individually...

Cooper Sharman - an enigma is capable of doing some creative things with the ball, but he is not great at finding space in the forward 50 and getting marks on the lead in there (as evidenced by the table below). Yes, some of that has to do with delivery but it's also his positioning and footy smarts. Most of his forward 50 marks are jumping into the packs from the side. We need more Gunston type marks on the lead.

Mitch Owens - runs straight lines, works his ass off, competes well and marks well for his size, but his disposal, goalkicking and decision making are not great. He has improved on the lead this season.

Jack Higgins - Higgo is our best forward - but he doesn't really bring other forwards into the game and his defensive pressure can leave a lot desired at times.

They are the only three I'm going to mention as the rest (Roma, Tauru, Butler and whoever else rests in there) are either struggling, too young, not enough sample size or just not forwards in general.

MARKS INSIDE 50 - ST. KILDA

Higgins - 8
Owens - 8
Hall - 4
Sharman - 4
Tauru - 3
Ryan - 3
NWM - 3
Boxshall - 3

Maybe it's the coaching. Maybe we are missing some pieces. Maybe we need more time to gel. But it's hard to see it turning around overnight - especially if it is the player mix.

Some thoughts in response:

• there's a reason Sharman was overlooked for a couple of drafts. He has a lot of the traditional football skills, but perhaps he's not particularly fast, athletic or strong, or overly tall. If he had one of those things to add to his existing skill set, he'd probably be a 40-50 goal a year forward. Also worth pointing out his entire permanent time as a forward under Lyon has coincided with Max King's absence.
• Owens wasn't drafted as a forward (a forward I think he is, but he wasn't drafted as one). Higgins played mostly midfield at Richmond.

So to a certain extent it is cobbled together. It's why you spend a #1 pick on a key forward: there aren't many to go about. Eight blokes kicked 50 goals last season (and Morris needed finals), Higgins finished 10th with 46. So that's about one every two teams (flip a coin you have one or not). It's the tease on King: fit and firing he would make a huge difference, and Lyon has never really had him. In 2023 he played 10 games (not counting the Melbourne game where he got hurt in the first minute), in a team less potent than in 2025 (!), and he kicked 28 goals. With a decent run at it, he should be a 60-70 goal forward, and that also makes the rest of the guys' jobs easier.

But Hawthorn have a bloke who was drafted in 2009, and a couple of lower picks and some elite smalls. They manage it, and it's hard to deny it is down to coaching.

 

[gringo2011]

We THINK we do. It is all just on paper at the moment. Go back to 2017/18 - you will see the same type of hype around our young talent as you see today. We can be as optimistic as we like but until this team starts to put together consistent winning performances they are just a bunch of potential.

Not so sure. It was a pretty youth small pool. Clark, Coff, Paton, Gresh, Acres, McKenzie, Dunstan, Long, Lonie etc. Guys like Dunstan, Acres and Billings in their 5th year.

In reality we were being carried by a big pool of B graders and Stuv and Ross were having A grade seasons.If guys like Billings, Clark, Coffield and Gresham didn't hit their peak, then we had no-one else to build around.

 

[jwikked]

If you have a top 5 pick and Father Sons/Academy picks are bid on in the top 5 and turn your top 5 pick into 6+ the AFL is going to compensate clubs with an End of First round pick

It is truly insane, but predictably AFL, that instead of just making things fairer, they make it more convoluted.

Fix on top of fix on top of fix. When something doesn’t work, they bring in a new rule instead of getting rid of the old one lol.

Joke of an organization