No Oppo Supporters General AFL discussion and other club’s news - Part 10

[The Jet From Poowong]

Because it is analogous to using a person's past record of multiple petty thefts as justification for convicting that person of, say, robbing a bank, in the absence of any evidence that supports the prosecution's case.

That fact he is a recidivist dickhead wasnt the primary or sole reason the decision went against him. You chose to ignore that.

Port blokes couldn’t even corroborate their evidence. You reckon they could have got alignment, right? The ignorance and/or bias of some in the media and misreporting their own opinion as fact hasn’t helped at all, including

It was too loud for the umpire to hear accurately but not Wines who was further away from Zac

The ONE earpiece worn by the umpire could have been an issue, yet it was in the umpires right ear, the Wines side, not the Zac side

Zac was so exhausted after the game it isn’t fair that he be judged that he can’t remember the words or how many times he spoke to the umpire. But Ollie remembered more clearly. And the umpire, well he had been strolling along all game.

 

[unitedhawk2]

That fact he is a recidivist dickhead wasnt the primary or sole reason the decision went against him. You chose to ignore that.

Port blokes couldn’t even corroborate their evidence. You reckon they could have got alignment, right? The ignorance and/or bias of some in the media and misreporting their own opinion as fact hasn’t helped at all, including

It was too loud for the umpire to hear accurately but not Wines who was further away from Zac

The ONE earpiece worn by the umpire could have been an issue, yet it was in the umpires right ear, the Wines side, not the Zac side

Zac was so exhausted after the game it isn’t fair that he be judged that he can’t remember the words or how many times he spoke to the umpire. But Ollie remembered more clearly. And the umpire, well he had been strolling along all game.

Are you suggesting they should have colluded to match their evidence? Are you aware how that would go down in an actual court of law?

You're right about that part. Makes you wonder why the Tribunal even brought it up, given its irrelevance to the matter at hand. To justify their own decision, perhaps.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Are you suggesting they should have colluded to match their evidence? Are you aware how that would go down in an actual court of law?

You're right about that part. Makes you wonder why the Tribunal even brought it up, given its irrelevance to the matter at hand. To justify their own decision, perhaps.

Why do we compare this to an actual court of law?
Why have we got high paid lawyers getting involved in football incidents which is just two people saying things to each other? The umpire thought he got called a cheat.
Why would lawyers get involved over a $1500 fine?

Football takes itself way too seriously sometimes it's embarrassing.

 

[Argy]

Why do we compare this to an actual court of law?
Why have we got high paid lawyers getting involved in football incidents which is just two people saying things to each other? The umpire thought he got called a cheat.
Why would lawyers get involved over a $1500 fine?

Football takes itself way too seriously sometimes it's embarrassing.

Yep, 100%. It's a sport. We don't have a judge and jury deciding each free kick.

 

[GerryLewis]

Why do we compare this to an actual court of law?
Why have we got high paid lawyers getting involved in football incidents which is just two people saying things to each other? The umpire thought he got called a cheat.
Why would lawyers get involved over a $1500 fine?

Football takes itself way too seriously sometimes it's embarrassing.

Exactly. The courts certainly wouldn't make a ruling based on past offending. That's only known at sentencing.

Did I hear a juror left during proceedings and re-joined online from his car? Absolute Kangaroo Court

 

[Dewnior]

Draft tampering at its finest.

 

[hawkinoz]

Draft tampering at its finest.


View attachment 2583707

So Butters can do the same..

1 yr deal for 4mn and then round it out by adding another 6 yrs for 6+mn

Dogs or Cats get him at end for 7yrs 10+mn deal

 

[Nugett]

Why does that matter

he is a smart arse and for that he has been fined many times. He basically doesn’t want to curb his ways and there comes a time when it catches up with you

Despite the AFLs laughable handling of the matter, and allowing an employee to also work for a betting agency, I have no sympathy for Zac. None.

It matters because it shows precedence. It doesn’t matter if he is a smart arse and has been fined many times, the fact remains that he hasn’t been fined previously for umpire abuse. That is 1 line that he hasn’t crossed. So being a smart arse and having been fined in this instance is irrelevant.

 

[Phil McCreviss]

Why do we compare this to an actual court of law?
Why have we got high paid lawyers getting involved in football incidents which is just two people saying things to each other? The umpire thought he got called a cheat.
Why would lawyers get involved over a $1500 fine?

Football takes itself way too seriously sometimes it's embarrassing.

Could not agree more. Its hilarious they engage legal counsel for such a small market sport like AFL. So much drama over such trivial things.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Exactly. The courts certainly wouldn't make a ruling based on past offending. That's only known at sentencing.

Did I hear a juror left during proceedings and re-joined online from his car? Absolute Kangaroo Court

A juror????

hahahahaha

The thought of a jury to review the evidence to determine a $1500 fine is so ridiculous.
THey should all take the calls from their cars. How many highly paid people do they need in a room for this nonsense? hahahaha

 

[kazzooka]

The post I made and you quoted I already conceded it won't fully erase errors from the game - the same way professionalism of players hasn't stopped people missing shots at goal. So I am going to ignore the diatribes you continually make on that front because I never once argued that being the sole reason for making the umpires professionals.

All your other hyperbole is fairly moot when the NRL has had professional, full time referees for well over a decade now. The top-line ones presently earn about $300k a year so it's not exactly chicken feed they are being offered. If they get injured - I am sure they can fall back on previous vocations much like the current AFL cohort could. That risk applies in a lot of jobs where an injury/illness could prevent you from doing your role and may require you to make a career change so I don't know why you are screaming about it being an issue in this instance. Nobody is forcing anyone to be a full-time professional umpire in this scenario much like nobody forces anyone to become a player.

I am not sure why it angers you so that some would prefer the umpires to be focussed on their role as a full-time profession much like the NRL presently does along with the FA in the UK, the MLB, NHL and NBA in the USA and multiple other big name sports leagues.

Being an umpire is also a perfect job for a 22year old footballer who's just been delisted. I don't know why we should be concerned about how we might lose a few umpires to law or dentistry or sportsbet.

300k is a great pay and the time off would be attractive too as an umpire, and perks of AFL access etc.. How many lifelong local club footballers who are working as painters or bricklayers that would be perfectly suited to being umpires.

Imagine if instead of Nick Foot as an umpire it's someone like Seamus Mitchell who knows the game at the elite level and can brush up on it. Players know when a tackle should be rewarded, they know that "spilled out in the tackle" is bs, they know when someone has dived or ducked, they know how quickly a player really can dispose of the ball legally if they actually wanted to.

Yes umpiring is a limited, unstable, physical career but there are millions of those positions in society that don't pay 300k and get you into a grand final, or give you holidays from october to febuary, and mondays off.

 

[zerogsg]

Is Liam Ryan a bit thick or what? Does he even know the meaning of the term double standards?

Might have been questioning the response of the AFL to racist abuse compared to homophobic abuse.

 

[kazzooka]

How thin is the dogs list? and why do they want to rush everyone back immediately with no thought about their condition and standard rehab time?

English after doing an MCL was getting talked up as a chance for this week, now beveridge says " "He won't play this week, not sure whether that's two weeks, three, four or beyond." Well what did the bloody scan say the damage was and what are the physios recommended. It's a 4+ week injury.

Then on Richards who had a knee injury and missed the game against Essendon thought to be out for many weeks but plays against us, then clearly at best rolls his ankle and worst there's some serious damage there. And it's "(Richards is) doing everything he can. Signs are pretty good ... it's encouraging to see what he’s done in the pursuit of playing."

There's no way that ankle is fine a week later even if it's just a standard sprain at least miss a game and take it easy at training.

I get that they stupidly went into this year with only 1 ruckman on their list (even Emmett who played against us is more a forward than ruck and is a first year player nowhere near ready) so English would be rushed. But surely they have enough mids for Richards to not keep fronting up after multiple injuries.

 

[badgrill]

This is some rather convoluted reasoning by the AFL Tribunal!

AFL confirms date for Butters appeal after Tribunal explains finding

The AFL Tribunal has delivered its reasoning behind the Zak Butters guilty verdict

www.afl.com.au

So, Foot claims Butters made two comments, not one. Neither the (alleged) first nor the second were captured on audio?

Righto!

Are any player comments picked up by the ump mics (other than someone yelling loudly)?

I assume they're designed to only pick up umpires voices - so they can communicate with each other as clearly as possible, and so would be deliberately very directional (e.g. cardioid/ supercardioid) so as not to pick up anyone else?

To me this has always seemed the most likely explanation, though you'd expect the AFL would've mentioned it

 

[Yardie]

AFL 'firestorm' taking heavy toll on players, Saints coach says

St Kilda coach Ross Lyon says the damage from a "firestorm" around the AFL Tribunal is weighing heavily as his club signals it may appeal against Lance Collard's suspension.

www.abc.net.au

Not sure I like Ross putting these two issues together to make his point. Feels a bit slimey..

 

[cryptor]

How thin is the dogs list? and why do they want to rush everyone back immediately with no thought about their condition and standard rehab time?

English after doing an MCL was getting talked up as a chance for this week, now beveridge says " "He won't play this week, not sure whether that's two weeks, three, four or beyond." Well what did the bloody scan say the damage was and what are the physios recommended. It's a 4+ week injury.

Then on Richards who had a knee injury and missed the game against Essendon thought to be out for many weeks but plays against us, then clearly at best rolls his ankle and worst there's some serious damage there. And it's "(Richards is) doing everything he can. Signs are pretty good ... it's encouraging to see what he’s done in the pursuit of playing."

There's no way that ankle is fine a week later even if it's just a standard sprain at least miss a game and take it easy at training.

I get that they stupidly went into this year with only 1 ruckman on their list (even Emmett who played against us is more a forward than ruck and is a first year player nowhere near ready) so English would be rushed. But surely they have enough mids for Richards to not keep fronting up after multiple injuries.

This is why we shouldn’t have a mid season trade period. List management and in particular building a list that is balanced and has cover for every role/position is part of the overall strategy for a premiership tilt.

Doggies should have known last year that finding a mature back up ruck was a priority. If they couldn’t trade for one last October then they should’ve got a state league one to train with them and signed up during the SSP.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Being an umpire is also a perfect job for a 22year old footballer who's just been delisted. I don't know why we should be concerned about how we might lose a few umpires to law or dentistry or sportsbet.

300k is a great pay and the time off would be attractive too as an umpire, and perks of AFL access etc.. How many lifelong local club footballers who are working as painters or bricklayers that would be perfectly suited to being umpires.

Imagine if instead of Nick Foot as an umpire it's someone like Seamus Mitchell who knows the game at the elite level and can brush up on it. Players know when a tackle should be rewarded, they know that "spilled out in the tackle" is bs, they know when someone has dived or ducked, they know how quickly a player really can dispose of the ball legally if they actually wanted to.

Yes umpiring is a limited, unstable, physical career but there are millions of those positions in society that don't pay 300k and get you into a grand final, or give you holidays from october to febuary, and mondays off.

Imagine someone like Brian Lake applying for an umpire job to ease into retirement.

 

[Atch]

Na I think the mid season draft is great, it gives the players still trying to get drafted hope and something to play for. Don't worry Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

34

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

is not playing in the state leagues. cryptor

 

[Atch]

Imagine someone like Brian Lake applying for an umpire job to ease into retirement.

Umpire dessent would not exist!

 

[bigmaxi]

Because it is analogous to using a person's past record of multiple petty thefts as justification for convicting that person of, say, robbing a bank, in the absence of any evidence that supports the prosecution's case.

But now we’ve all gone digital is that still the case?

 

[grumbleguts]

Are any player comments picked up by the ump mics (other than someone yelling loudly)?

I assume they're designed to only pick up umpires voices - so they can communicate with each other as clearly as possible, and so would be deliberately very directional (e.g. cardioid/ supercardioid) so as not to pick up anyone else?

To me this has always seemed the most likely explanation, though you'd expect the AFL would've mentioned it

As long as they look after Gaz, we shouldn't hear players' voices.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

This is why we shouldn’t have a mid season trade period. List management and in particular building a list that is balanced and has cover for every role/position is part of the overall strategy for a premiership tilt.

Doggies should have known last year that finding a mature back up ruck was a priority. If they couldn’t trade for one last October then they should’ve got a state league one to train with them and signed up during the SSP.

The MSD is just the sub rule for list management.

 

[cryptor]

Na I think the mid season draft is great, it gives the players still trying to get drafted hope and something to play for. Don't worry Max Gawn is not playing in the state leagues. cryptor

I said mid season trade period.

The mid season draft is fine. If there ends up being any stars that emerge from the state leagues then the lower placed sides (ie. The ones not actively in premiership contention) get first dibs.

 

[cryptor]

The MSD is just the sub rule for list management.

Wasn’t talking about the MSD

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Wasn’t talking about the MSD

But what are your thoughts on the mid season draft?