Delisted 13. Liam Stocker

[Blue and Silver]

I don't like dragging Knightmare.

Guy's doing his best.

But he sure as **** isn't Kevin Sheehan. He doesn't have the exposure or access to enough kids for the necessary full evaluation, or the coaching background to formulate an informed understanding of development within an AFL system.

Like Twomey, he's a curator of draft knowledge, and therefore a useful resource, but I don't rate either's talent spotting particularly highly

 

[teagueyubeauty]

If the ONLY knock on him is his defensive pressures I’ll take that all day long,can be fixed very easily.We know what we’re getting with Walsh,it’s the unknown with Liam that is making us excited.

Not so sure about that, wanting to chase and pressure when your body is saying you can’t is completely a mindset thing.

The good thing is Richmond made him glaringly aware of this and he’s already working on getting fitter, he needs to get his mind fit as well and that’s where Andrew Russell comes into the picture big time

 

[Blue__Balls]

https://www.outline.com/zu8cAH

So in a year where Adelaide missed the 8 and had serious questions raised about their club culture and leadership, and we finished last with a young list decimated by injury, the rating of this trade operates on the basis that Adelaide will (best case scenario) win the flag, or (worst case scenario) only finish 8th.

If we avoid last place, which shouldn't be too big an issue given Gold Coast have lost their only experienced bookends (who happened to be their co-captains), then if Adelaide miss finals we "win" the trade on an arbitrary numerical system. Should a journalist make any kind of effort to analyse the situation a bit deeper, then they'd quite easily come to the conclusion that this year's draft is stronger than next year's, and given we're most likely going to be trading next year's first rounder for an experienced player, it matters very little whether that Pick falls at 3 or 10 (beyond what steak knives we'd need to add to a trade, or give up in return).

It's a shame there isn't one decent journalist out there, with a reasonable profile, who has the integrity to assess things from an unbiased point of view.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Crippa is a special character in that regard. At least when you have a player like that as captain. that attitude has a better chance of infecting others. Fingers crossed it does in this case.

I hope my daughter finds a man like Crippa, absolute gentleman, great with the kids and just has an attitude to getting the most out of himself which will permeate throughout his whole life not just footy.

Stoked he’s now a captain of the club, could not wish for a better role model for the kids coming through

 

[thylacine60]

I don't like dragging Knightmare.

Guy's doing his best.

But he sure as **** isn't Kevin Sheehan. He doesn't have the exposure or access to enough kids for the necessary full evaluation, or the coaching background to formulate an informed understanding of development within an AFL system.

Like Twomey, he's a curator of draft knowledge, and therefore a useful resource, but I don't rate either's talent spotting particularly highly

I just get the sense that draft and junior track watchers are saying similar things about the same group of players.

 

[StandByyourMan]

Stock is ready to go. Already big enough. Round 1 if all goes to plan.

 

[Gethelred]

Daisy is a legend and an incredibly humble person. You're wanting her to spout AFL propaganda instead of just giving her honest opinion? How is that comment about the King twins not what everyone is thinking? And Stocker, sure 2 win Carlton or the Tigers, it's an obvious comparison to make at the moment.

Don't mind Daisy, but I don't find the criticisms being made by Daisy to have much merit here. They're easy.

I have a go - and I agree with others when they do too - when someone like Luke Darcy or Kane Cornes says similar things, because it's surface, barely looking at the situation analytically or with an eye to see why any given decision is made. My issue is more to do with the current state of AFL journalism than anything else; that the field is already poor with ex and current AFL talent taking the positions that used to be held by an avid watcher of the game, a caller who knows everyone's name (I'm looking at you, Sandy Roberts) or at least someone who knows the ground, the wind, the strategies, the coaching. There's something to being an expert that the current set of commentary and discussion lack, and just being opinionated or regurgitating negative talking points about bottom sides whilst glorifying upper sides is frankly not good enough.

 

[gardiner stand]

So in a year where Adelaide missed the 8 and had serious questions raised about their club culture and leadership, and we finished last with a young list decimated by injury, the rating of this trade operates on the basis that Adelaide will (best case scenario) win the flag, or (worst case scenario) only finish 8th.

If we avoid last place, which shouldn't be too big an issue given Gold Coast have lost their only experienced bookends (who happened to be their co-captains), then if Adelaide miss finals we "win" the trade on an arbitrary numerical system. Should a journalist make any kind of effort to analyse the situation a bit deeper, then they'd quite easily come to the conclusion that this year's draft is stronger than next year's, and given we're most likely going to be trading next year's first rounder for an experienced player, it matters very little whether that Pick falls at 3 or 10 (beyond what steak knives we'd need to add to a trade, or give up in return).

It's a shame there isn't one decent journalist out there, with a reasonable profile, who has the integrity to assess things from an unbiased point of view.

Correct!
We can’t lose in this deal.
- Trading next years first for a player is a certainty so we get stocker and still trade our first next year(Adelaide first) so Stocker is a FREEBIE
- In 12 months stocker is more advanced than any 2019 draftee
- Stocker may be better than anyone in the 3-10 range next year
- where we finish and where Adelaide finish has more impact on them, they have already given up a player at pick 19 and at best they upgrade 2019 pick a few places at worst they only upgrade 1 or 2 places and for that they’ve sacrificed pick 19.

Fantastic deal for our club,the best deal of the draft/ trade period by a street

 

[HARKER]

The AFL should really be demanding better examples from these muck journalists trying to bury 17/18 year olds who have just been drafted.

I happened on Daisy Pearce on Friday morning I think on SEN who was saying crap like “imagine being one King boy you get to have your mums cooking and go down the road to the club you supported and now play for... and then your the other who has to go to Gold Coast”

That kind of drivel is not required. Sure the Suns don’t seem like an ideal destination but a “poster girl” of the AFL effectively apologising to a kid who goes to a club she clearly doesn’t respect - I hope that the Suns remember when she’s up there doing commentary duties and give her nothing. I hope Ben, Luko and the Suns can all turn that club around (not against us) and be good players and champion that club for a decade.

She also commented on the Stocker trade and selection saying how would he feel. Could have gone to a premiership contender... now has to be part of a rebuilding club.

I thought she was better than that but really sounds like she’s let the ego of being in the industry get to her brain.

I would love one day for these draftees to tell the offending people like Ralph and Pearce to “GAGF” when they get approached for comment.

So many parasite commentators flogging opinion as fact in media... it’s why I hardly ever tune in.

This is what I think happens.
They start off in a field of expertise and then get pushed in having to expand on what they were hired to do in the first place.
It's happened a lot and will continue to happen

I just look for content and don't care if I agree with them or not, as long as they have a real reason for what they're saying.
No different to here or anywhere else. If one has something to say, just make sure you own the language and not parrot what the popular verdict may be.

 

[Gethelred]

With the King brothers, She is pointing out the reality of the situation

Stocker would unlikely get too many games at Richmond for the next couple of years.

Not sure that's true. They need to win more of the ball around the stoppage, you cannot stay at the top whilst standing still.

Collingwood demonstrated something I've thought about Richmond for a long time; deprive them of the ball, and challenge the tackler whilst playing through Rance's man, and their offense begins too deep in the back half of the ground and it falls to pieces around half back. They rely on that churning pressure to stop quality entries, creating high kicks for their KPD to zone off and intercept, flinging the thing out the vacant side (the way you can on the MCG) and gunning the ball forward. You beat them through the middle, you reduce their access to clearances, and you get the thing into space before they close it down, and you're well on the way to beating their defence and halting their attack. Hit them hard, hit them early, and they go into shock in a way you don't see in a contender very often; you can get on a roll. They're not that mentally strong, their pressure has disguised their fragility which you can unearth if you put enough pressure on Dusty, Cotchin and Rance, the lesser lights drop their heads.

Stocker would've been perfect for them; another Prestia, but with better disposal by foot to a leading target? Just as they picked up Tom Lynch? He'd not make as many tackles as Jack Higgins, but he'd make up for it by winning the ball himself and disposing to advantage outside the stoppage.

 

[Soapy V]

Do people actually not realise that we have turned 1 first round pick into 2? We get one player straight away that we wouldn't have had and he fills an important need and looks ready made.

Judging next years ladder position is stupid and irrelevant. Review any previous draft and put in an order now and it will look nothing like it was picked at the time. Remind me again what picks did we select Charlie & Cripps? Simpson was what pick? If rumours are true we got a Top 8 pick for 19.

IMO it was a great deal by a club being aggressive and moving forward. If our recruiters are good we will get a very good player with that pick regardless.

 

[Blue since 72]

Chatting at the end my friend.

Check

 

[AndyWalkersGirl]

Do people actually not realise that we have turned 1 first round pick into 2? We get one player straight away that we wouldn't have had and he fills an important need and looks ready made.

Judging next years ladder position is stupid and irrelevant. Review any previous draft and put in an order now and it will look nothing like it was picked at the time. Remind me again what picks did we select Charlie & Cripps? Simpson was what pick? If rumours are true we got a Top 8 pick for 19.

IMO it was a great deal by a club being aggressive and moving forward. If our recruiters are good we will get a very good player with that pick regardless.

This is plain and simple what happened. I don’t understand what the fuss is about, we got two for one.

 

[StandByyourMan]

Do people actually not realise that we have turned 1 first round pick into 2? We get one player straight away that we wouldn't have had and he fills an important need and looks ready made.

Judging next years ladder position is stupid and irrelevant. Review any previous draft and put in an order now and it will look nothing like it was picked at the time. Remind me again what picks did we select Charlie & Cripps? Simpson was what pick? If rumours are true we got a Top 8 pick for 19.

IMO it was a great deal by a club being aggressive and moving forward. If our recruiters are good we will get a very good player with that pick regardless.

Agree. But it’d be so sweet if we get Adelaide’s pick 2 next year.

 

[HARKER]

Do people actually not realise that we have turned 1 first round pick into 2? We get one player straight away that we wouldn't have had and he fills an important need and looks ready made.
Judging next years ladder position is stupid and irrelevant. Review any previous draft and put in an order now and it will look nothing like it was picked at the time. Remind me again what picks did we select Charlie & Cripps? Simpson was what pick? If rumours are true we got a Top 8 pick for 19.
IMO it was a great deal by a club being aggressive and moving forward. If our recruiters are good we will get a very good player with that pick regardless.

We're way too far out to pretend to know what will happen but even at this stage, I'd bet on that first being used as a trade.
Can't help seeing what we need to go forward is to recruit the right player for the right position. We don't need any more 18 year olds, given the extent of 21 year olds and under we currently have in what will be, our starting senior squad.

Never had an issue with the trade of picks and without seeing what we've reeled in, it will only be about the player.
I'm not sure we needed another young mid, but hey, he's ours and we'll love him.

 

[Aphrodite]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/ne...n/news-story/a18fcee0409192a6bbf6aab31ec32faf

 

[Soapy V]

We're way too far out to pretend to know what will happen but even at this stage, I'd bet on that first being used as a trade.
Can't help seeing what we need to go forward is to recruit the right player for the right position. We don't need any more 18 year olds, given the extent of 21 year olds and under we currently have in what will be, our starting senior squad.

Never had an issue with the trade of picks and without seeing what we've reeled in, it will only be about the player.
I'm not sure we needed another young mid, but hey, he's ours and we'll love him.

My guess is we will use it for a trade to bring in a readymade gun but who knows

 

[La Dispute]

You look at it another way, if we rated him in the top 8 of this years draft then in all likelihood we’d rate him Top 5 in next years. Given 10-25 were quite even this year, where they fell was mainly due to personal preference. Could have gone at 11 or 23 and no one would have batted an eyelid ala McHenry, Clark, Sturt, Butters etc. Even Caldwell dropped to 11.

Also don’t subscribe to the theory he needs to be a star to win this trade. West Coast’s grand final team wasn’t littered with them, just Yeo and Shuey as midfield stars with Redden, Sheed, Duggan supporting. If he turns out to be a solid B-B+ player while Dow, Walsh and Fisher become A-graders it’ll go down as a successful. Then on top still have a first rounder to trade or use on a talent young player next year.

 

[thylacine60]

This is plain and simple what happened. I don’t understand what the fuss is about, we got two for one.

 

[thylacine60]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/ne...n/news-story/a18fcee0409192a6bbf6aab31ec32faf

"Liam Stocker was at the centre of the biggest bombshell on draft night, with Carlton securing the midfielder ahead of Richmond after a trade swap with Adelaide
The Morrish Medal winner, who missed a chunk of footy in 2018 because of a broken jaw, will line up alongside the likes of Patrick Cripps, Paddy Dow and No. 1 pick Sam Walsh in a Blues engine room that continues to look more threatening."

That's what I'm talking about! Thanks, Aph.

 

[gardiner stand]

Do people actually not realise that we have turned 1 first round pick into 2? We get one player straight away that we wouldn't have had and he fills an important need and looks ready made.

Judging next years ladder position is stupid and irrelevant. Review any previous draft and put in an order now and it will look nothing like it was picked at the time. Remind me again what picks did we select Charlie & Cripps? Simpson was what pick? If rumours are true we got a Top 8 pick for 19.

IMO it was a great deal by a club being aggressive and moving forward. If our recruiters are good we will get a very good player with that pick regardless.

Next years ladder position is relevant to Adelaide because that determines the real cost of this deal for them.
It doesn’t matter to us because we will likely trade it for a ready made player so wether it’s pick 3 or pick 10 its still a first rounder to bargain with

 

[Soapy V]

The Morrish Medal winner, who missed a chunk of footy in 2018 because of a broken jaw, will line up alongside the likes of Patrick Cripps, Paddy Dow and No. 1 pick Sam Walsh in a Blues engine room that continues to look more threatening."

Kennedy SPS Setterfield Fisher Curnow Lang Cuningham

 

[thylacine60]

Gotta say - and my fellow game-goers can vouch for me - I don't ever recall watching a player (failed or otherwise) and commenting "and to think we gave away pick x for this bloke" it just doesn't happen.........except for lucas.........and boekhorst........and maybe brock.......

 

[Weiterbot23]

I don't like dragging Knightmare.

Guy's doing his best.

But he sure as **** isn't Kevin Sheehan. He doesn't have the exposure or access to enough kids for the necessary full evaluation, or the coaching background to formulate an informed understanding of development within an AFL system.

Like Twomey, he's a curator of draft knowledge, and therefore a useful resource, but I don't rate either's talent spotting particularly highly

Sheehan is definitely a good judge, I rate his opinion highly.

But he gets wrong as well.

 

[passmark]

Out walking the dog and what do I spy????
It's a SIGN!!!!





Don't worry about The no through road bit. Just means there's no getting past him !!