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Delisted 13. Liam Stocker

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passmark said:
Who knows .
Not sure if we'd have taken Willie.
He's going ok now but he had to lose 16 kegs to get drafted as a mature age and he was still a pudding.
Turned out well for West coast but theyre a good team.
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We wouldn't have taken him, but that wasn't really the point.

The point was you may take the better talent, but that talent may not have the opportunity and scope to develop properly, if you're already flooded with similar types. Had we taken a small (and we did in the RD with LeBois) the gap is there, opportunities present and you have the better chance of making good.

Re. second question; Who knows for sure?
 
IIRC not many clubs rated Jordan Lewis a Top 10 Pick, and it was seen as a reach at the time. It’s not untenable to think we rated him as early as 6 given his production, and inside/outside mids with good skills tend to make a good fist of it at AFL level - think Nathan Jones, Jack Ziebell etc. We probably see him as a reasonably safe selection, and a surefire best 22 AFL player but with a decent amount of upside still.
 
La Dispute said:
IIRC not many clubs rated Jordan Lewis a Top 10 Pick, and it was seen as a reach at the time. It’s not untenable to think we rated him as early as 6 given his production, and inside/outside mids with good skills tend to make a good fist of it at AFL level - think Nathan Jones, Jack Ziebell etc. We probably see him as a reasonably safe selection, and a surefire best 22 AFL player but with a decent amount of upside still.
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#19 reaches...had me thinking, ol’ mate Blaine Boekhorst was snaffled at the same pick. Compare the pair..
 

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The rating him at 6 does seem questionable in my eyes. Could be true, could be Carlton talk to deflect negativity.

Is Stocker an overager given he said he finished school a year earlier than Walsh? If yes, even more a reason 6 would be odd.
 
BlueRenaissance said:
The rating him at 6 does seem questionable in my eyes. Could be true, could be Carlton talk to deflect negativity.

Is Stocker an overager given he said he finished school a year earlier than Walsh? If yes, even more a reason 6 would be odd.
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He’s the same age (Jan ‘00) but because of the schooling ages (assuming Asia as was the case in WA, you used to finish school at 17) was the over-ager part.
 
smashbox gill said:
The latest article on AFL website says we had Stocker number 6 on our draft list.

Very interesting.. Walsh, Rankine, Luko, M. King, B.King.. Stocker?
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If that was indeed the order then really, that means SOS rated him the 2nd best midfielder in the draft. I dont include Rankine as a pure midfielder. if he was that highly rated, then you can see why they did the live trade- it was a no brainer.
 
Stocker’s running is very poor - miles off AFL. Sounds like he has acknowledged it and is really working on it, but he’ll need to big time.

If he can turn it around, he has a chance to be really good. It’s much easier said than done though, and this is why people underrate footballers with great endurance relative to their cohort (eg Sam Walsh, Lachie Whitfield) - it’s assumed that everyone will just reach the same level once they hit AFL, which is not the case.

The fact is, they are already in the same semi-professional environment through the junior pathway and some still manage to be far superior in certain areas, whether it’s endurance, strength, pace, skills, hands etc. That edge often holds true at AFL level, because it’s not just the weak getting stronger, the strong are also getting stronger. Obviously there are exceptions - eg manchildren who have already physically peaked.

Just look at SPS for how a limited tank can prevent a player from reaching their potential. No slight on SPS, he has had his injury issues and I believe he has the right attitude to come good - I’m more referring to the fact that due to his tank he isn’t able to impact an entire game - yet. So important these days.
 
TheRedPill said:
Stocker’s running is very poor - miles off AFL. Sounds like he has acknowledged it and is really working on it, but he’ll need to big time.

If he can turn it around, he has a chance to be really good. It’s much easier said than done though, and this is why people underrate footballers with great endurance relative to their cohort (eg Sam Walsh, Lachie Whitfield) - it’s assumed that everyone will just reach the same level once they hit AFL, which is not the case.

The fact is, they are already in the same semi-professional environment through the junior pathway and some still manage to be far superior in certain areas, whether it’s endurance, strength, pace, skills, hands etc. That edge often holds true at AFL level, because it’s not just the weak getting stronger, the strong are also getting stronger. Obviously there are exceptions - eg manchildren who have already physically peaked.

Just look at SPS for how a limited tank can prevent a player from reaching their potential. No slight on SPS, he has had his injury issues and I believe he has the right attitude to come good - I’m more referring to the fact that due to his tank he isn’t able to impact an entire game - yet. So important these days.
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Is this based on comments made during his 2018 season or assessments that have been made at Carlton?
 

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TheRedPill said:
Stocker’s running is very poor - miles off AFL. Sounds like he has acknowledged it and is really working on it, but he’ll need to big time.

If he can turn it around, he has a chance to be really good. It’s much easier said than done though, and this is why people underrate footballers with great endurance relative to their cohort (eg Sam Walsh, Lachie Whitfield) - it’s assumed that everyone will just reach the same level once they hit AFL, which is not the case.

The fact is, they are already in the same semi-professional environment through the junior pathway and some still manage to be far superior in certain areas, whether it’s endurance, strength, pace, skills, hands etc. That edge often holds true at AFL level, because it’s not just the weak getting stronger, the strong are also getting stronger. Obviously there are exceptions - eg manchildren who have already physically peaked.

Just look at SPS for how a limited tank can prevent a player from reaching their potential. No slight on SPS, he has had his injury issues and I believe he has the right attitude to come good - I’m more referring to the fact that due to his tank he isn’t able to impact an entire game - yet. So important these days.
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Obviously known to the recruiters as a (major?) WIP at draft time but high hopes on the results from the hard work he’d put in?
 
BlueRenaissance said:
The rating him at 6 does seem questionable in my eyes. Could be true, could be Carlton talk to deflect negativity.

Is Stocker an overager given he said he finished school a year earlier than Walsh? If yes, even more a reason 6 would be odd.
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No he’s just smart.
 

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Juddernaut08 said:
If we truly had stocker at 6 then SOS is out of touch as that's too much discrepancy and overlooking guys like smith and rozee.

Top 10 I believe.
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When l watch the highlights of smith and stocker l see a better contested ball player in stocker.

I thought the top 6 were Walsh, lukoscius, Rankine, Blakey and the kings. After that l think Stocker is a chance to be next.

But take it with a grain of salt as lve watched a few YouTube clips and some u18 champs games.


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Why are people discussing ‘we rated him at 6 dribble’. That’s just marketing spiel to get fans excited. Who knows what the real number was and who cares. A blue now and will be an absolute jet. SOS knows how to find talent, we should just be excited to see what the kid can produce.
Regarding fitness, I think Richmond were just trying to play a little hard to get ‘where the destination club’. Other recruiters might be sucking up to you, however, we are a successful group. ‘You need to improve x y z to make it with us’... that would make most people more keen to get there and make it, all IMO, might be completely wrong
 
Juddernaut08 said:
Fair enough if we r talking pick 1. but I have at least 13 other club list managers who would make the same call.

Im a big fan of SOS and one-eyed as they come but Stocker at 6 wouldve been laughed at.
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Luke Parker at 6 in his drafting year would have been "laughed at".

Even Patrick Cripps at 6 would have been "laughed at"
 
Juddernaut08 said:
Fair enough if we r talking pick 1. but I have at least 13 other club list managers who would make the same call.

Im a big fan of SOS and one-eyed as they come but Stocker at 6 wouldve been laughed at.
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Bolts said Stocker was rated top 8. I don’t know where AFL media got pick six from, but it’s not far off what we know to be true.
 
Carltontragic said:
Regarding fitness, I think Richmond were just trying to play a little hard to get ‘where the destination club’. Other recruiters might be sucking up to you, however, we are a successful group. ‘You need to improve x y z to make it with us’... that would make most people more keen to get there and make it, all IMO, might be completely wrong
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I think you’re on the right track Ct. Richmond saw enough to interview him, the comments about his fitness were as much about seeing how he would respond and what he would do about it.

Seems like the kid’s got his head screwed on and is responding beautifully.....great quality to have.
 

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