2007 Draftees

[rancidpants13]

Can someone tell me why we passed on Rance?

yeah, this was my first thought on hearing the players picked after No 11....
i have no problem with veszpremi, the reports are good and he seems a goer, but to then go and get another bloke barely 6 feet tall, knowing our other draft pick was bird, geez, it makes you wonder
the only thing i can think is roos and our recruiters know what they have up their sleeve at the club, in the likes of talls such as jesse white, brendan murphy and dan currie.....anyway, let's wait and see
i did read that meredith is apparently one of veszpremi's best mates....surely THAT was not the deciding factor

 

[rancidpants13]

The only things I can think of to justify our short selections.

1. Maybe the key question these days is "are you prepared to relocate and settle in Sydney"?
- Maybe Rance had indicated a "Rocca like" stance?
- There were as someone pointed out some WA lads (KP back) that missed altogether

2. Maybe they had set their hopes on Tom Collier snatched at 25?

3. Maybe they think they have got future KP's covered in the existing group?
- doesn't seem to be though

4. Maybe " The Vesper" is the next superstar and couldn't resist taking him?


I wish there was a decent journalist and/or decent Swans publicity focus in Sydney who would ask the hard questions or tell us all why they draft the way they do and give some indication of how the replacements of the future is planned!

tim morrissey and nikki tugwell t the tele and jenny macasey at the oz are good, they'll be asking at some point soon

 

[snappy]

tim morrissey and nikki tugwell t the tele and jenny macasey at the oz are good, they'll be asking at some point soon

Translation

Anyway i have copied an article from todays Herald Sun.

Roos may rue bagging kids' lottery
25 November 2007 Sunday Herald Sun
Jon Ralph

EVEN by the most generous interpretation, Paul Roos's outburst that kids are over-rated in the AFL is plain silly.

If you are inclined to judge Roosy harshly, you could mount the case he shows a healthy disregard for Sydney's monumental dose of fortune in recent years.

Boiled down, his argument on Thursday was this: Rebuilding via a bunch of kids is a lottery; young talent is taken too early; it's not worth taking high picks.

The problem with Roos's analysis is that through a unique combination of circumstances, the Sydney coach has never been in a position where his junior drafting strategy has been tested.

Even given Sydney's superb injury management, it couldn't have hoped for better luck with keeping its players on the park.

In its premiership year it used only 32 players, the second-lowest in the competition.

In 2006 it got to the Grand Final with only 31 players, a competition-low.

And this season, despite the perception injuries had derailed its premiership bid, Sydney used only 33 players, equal second-lowest after Geelong.

So Sydney has never had to call on the kids so many other clubs are forced to test early in their careers when injuries bite hard.

This year the Swans had the oldest team in the competition, yet still didn't play a 2006 draftee, and blooded only one from the year before.

The day when Roos realises youngsters are the lifeblood of a redeveloping side might come sooner than he thinks.

Almost without fail, Roos is admired across the competition, both as a bloke and outspoken lateral thinker.

But the problem with this week's comments is it gives off the aura he is not grateful for what he has been given.

He has never had to build a side from scratch, or rebuild one for that matter.

That is his challenge in coming years, and one he will face without fitness expert Dave Misson, credited with Sydney's outstanding fitness management.

I can understand his sentiments to a certain degree, though i dont agree that we shouldnt go for KPP on the fact that they take longer to develop than smalls do, which has been implied before. After all its a gamble no matter who we draft big or small.

 

[Here It Is]

Interesting to note that a player mentioned on here by quite a few people - 200cm Tasmanian ruckman Thomas Bellchambers - was ignored altogether.

 

[rancidpants13]

Translation

Anyway i have copied an article from todays Herald Sun.

Roos may rue bagging kids' lottery
25 November 2007 Sunday Herald Sun
Jon Ralph

EVEN by the most generous interpretation, Paul Roos's outburst that kids are over-rated in the AFL is plain silly.

If you are inclined to judge Roosy harshly, you could mount the case he shows a healthy disregard for Sydney's monumental dose of fortune in recent years.

Boiled down, his argument on Thursday was this: Rebuilding via a bunch of kids is a lottery; young talent is taken too early; it's not worth taking high picks.

The problem with Roos's analysis is that through a unique combination of circumstances, the Sydney coach has never been in a position where his junior drafting strategy has been tested.

Even given Sydney's superb injury management, it couldn't have hoped for better luck with keeping its players on the park.

In its premiership year it used only 32 players, the second-lowest in the competition.

In 2006 it got to the Grand Final with only 31 players, a competition-low.

And this season, despite the perception injuries had derailed its premiership bid, Sydney used only 33 players, equal second-lowest after Geelong.

So Sydney has never had to call on the kids so many other clubs are forced to test early in their careers when injuries bite hard.

This year the Swans had the oldest team in the competition, yet still didn't play a 2006 draftee, and blooded only one from the year before.

The day when Roos realises youngsters are the lifeblood of a redeveloping side might come sooner than he thinks.

Almost without fail, Roos is admired across the competition, both as a bloke and outspoken lateral thinker.

But the problem with this week's comments is it gives off the aura he is not grateful for what he has been given.

He has never had to build a side from scratch, or rebuild one for that matter.

That is his challenge in coming years, and one he will face without fitness expert Dave Misson, credited with Sydney's outstanding fitness management.

I can understand his sentiments to a certain degree, though i dont agree that we shouldnt go for KPP on the fact that they take longer to develop than smalls do, which has been implied before. After all its a gamble no matter who we draft big or small.

"translation"???
i was responding to someone who wanted to know if there was a "good journo" in sydney who'd ask some tough questions of the swans recruiters about why they went for more little squat fellers
and that was my answer
tim morrissey's a good man, and jenny and nikki are good swans reporters who don't overhype or overdump on the club, like a lot of the melb footy writers fluctuate between

 

[FM0226]

I can understand his sentiments to a certain degree, though i dont agree that we shouldnt go for KPP on the fact that they take longer to develop than smalls do, which has been implied before. After all its a gamble no matter who we draft big or small.

Exactly. And it has taken Schmidt 4 years to clock up 16 games, Moore took 3 years for 9 and Laidlaw 2 years for 1 - so the small/mediums we've drafted since 2003 hasn't exactly develop at a rapid rate either.

In fact, there was felt to be a need by the coaching staff to actually trade for a mature midfielder flanker to strengthen our midfield despite all the investment we have put into these youngsters - to me, that's a sign that they don't trust the talent they have drafted and developed.

In my view, we are going to run out of luck using this strategy of trying to recycle other club's unwanted KPPs (and players). We have got away with it because Hall had been dominating and injury-free while the freakish talent of C.Bolton pretty much held our defence together all by himself.

Ted Richards is servicable, but hardly an out-right success while Chambers and Spriggs was utter disasters (though Spriggs did help our youngsters develop - apparently). We can only hope that Playfair is really forced out of the Geelong side because of their great talent depth rather than the lack of talent of the players (Spriggs' kicking skills - or lack of it while Chambers just lack any skills really).

 

[snappy]

"translation"???
i was responding to someone who wanted to know if there was a "good journo" in sydney who'd ask some tough questions of the swans recruiters about why they went for more little squat fellers
and that was my answer
tim morrissey's a good man, and jenny and nikki are good swans reporters who don't overhype or overdump on the club, like a lot of the melb footy writers fluctuate between

Wouldnt it be nice if they brought back the "ask Roosey" section on the swans web site.. I know i got a few tough ones for him..

 

[ssfc0203]

Wouldnt it be nice if they brought back the "ask Roosey" section on the swans web site.. I know i got a few tough ones for him..

Maybe thats why they took it off in the first place, lol.

 

[liz]

Not sure I understand the point of Ralph's article.

Roos was interviewed at the draft yesterday about his comments and noted he was responding to a question put to him about whether he thought the draft age was too low.

In any case, whether he phoned up a journo to make the story or was responding to a question, I don't see how an opinion that the draft age is too low equates to Roos not believing in young players. It is true that he's not been forced to call on many in recent years. It is true that he is slow to show faith in some of them. It is true that some day he is going to have to start blooding them more quickly.

But how does that negate his view that picking kids at 17 is too early?

(irrespective of whether one agrees with that view or not)

 

[rancidpants13]

Not sure I understand the point of Ralph's article.

Roos was interviewed at the draft yesterday about his comments and noted he was responding to a question put to him about whether he thought the draft age was too low.

In any case, whether he phoned up a journo to make the story or was responding to a question, I don't see how an opinion that the draft age is too low equates to Roos not believing in young players. It is true that he's not been forced to call on many in recent years. It is true that he is slow to show faith in some of them. It is true that some day he is going to have to start blooding them more quickly.

But how does that negate his view that picking kids at 17 is too early?

(irrespective of whether one agrees with that view or not)

i think it's another anti-swans beat-up, by a bloke (a carlton fan, i believe) who is one of quite a few at the HS/Sun HS who seem to only write about the swans when they're sticking the boot in
i read the article and was trying to remember whether there was even a report of roos' original comments, and if there was, it can't have been a big deal...unless it was simply another negative swans article beaten up for the sake of a "new angle" leading into the draft
if the gist of his comments was that you cannot rely on the draft, and on untried youngsters, to rebuild a club, that's hardly wrong
what ralph said about roos not having had to do the hard stuff and build a club from the bottom overlooks the fact he inherited a team going backwards and, without the help of high draft picks, not only turned it around without having to "bottom out" but he took us straight to finals (in his first full season) and won us a flag

i'd have thought it wasn't very wise to be questioning roos' theories or methods....terry wallace would be a better target, for starters

 

[mj23]

haven't really seen many of these players but Brad Ebert was still avalible I thought we would have taken him for sure

 

[rancidpants13]

haven't really seen many of these players but Brad Ebert was still avalible I thought we would have taken him for sure

apparently the whole of south australia is up in arms that the crows picked a victorian kid, dangerfield, when ebert was still available.....from what i have read and heard today, dangerfield is already under massive pressure while tears are flowing for ebert, described as a readymade player and future AFL captain
we obviously gave him a miss coz ... what is he? 188cm?...yeah, that's far too tall for us

 

[FM0226]

Not sure I understand the point of Ralph's article.

Roos was interviewed at the draft yesterday about his comments and noted he was responding to a question put to him about whether he thought the draft age was too low.

In any case, whether he phoned up a journo to make the story or was responding to a question, I don't see how an opinion that the draft age is too low equates to Roos not believing in young players. It is true that he's not been forced to call on many in recent years. It is true that he is slow to show faith in some of them. It is true that some day he is going to have to start blooding them more quickly.

But how does that negate his view that picking kids at 17 is too early?

(irrespective of whether one agrees with that view or not)

Agree completely. There was a thread about this on the general board and I was amazed to see people saying he's whingeing. All he said pretty much was that the draft age could be risen, so that both the clubs and the players will have better ideas at whether they can cut it at AFL level.

One of the closer comparisons of the AFL draft is the NBA draft and they have just risen the age limit so that draft prospects will get at least one year in college before entering the draft.

In my view, since most draftees are not ready to play immediately and is likely to spend one year in the reserves anyway, it would be benefitial to both the clubs and the player himself to spend a year (or an extra year) playing senior football at VFL and the other leagues. It will give the clubs a better idea at how the kid's are going to turn out, while the prospects can goto uni or pick up a trade so they have something to fall back on if they cut it at the AFL (and give them some sense of reality outside football).

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

Not sure I understand the point of Ralph's article.

Roos was interviewed at the draft yesterday about his comments and noted he was responding to a question put to him about whether he thought the draft age was too low.

In any case, whether he phoned up a journo to make the story or was responding to a question, I don't see how an opinion that the draft age is too low equates to Roos not believing in young players. It is true that he's not been forced to call on many in recent years. It is true that he is slow to show faith in some of them. It is true that some day he is going to have to start blooding them more quickly.

But how does that negate his view that picking kids at 17 is too early?

(irrespective of whether one agrees with that view or not)

Your thoughts are far too measured and logical for that article, Liz.

 

[Bloods boy from the Bush]

Being a Victorian I watched alot of TAC Cup footy and saw alot of the Knights particularly in the Finals. Veszpremi played one of the best games I have seen at this level in the First Final at Optus Oval kicking 8 goals on and off the bench (Shoulder Injury that he was carrying all year). Only a brilliant 40 disposal game from Cotchin stopped people talking Veszper right up. On the same day Brett Meredith went from possible draftee to early third round to late second rounder with a 30+ possesion game at close to 100% efficentcy only for the remarakable performance of Cotch & Veszper to allow his outstanding day to slip under the radar.

 

[EatBig Australia]

Veszpremi played one of the best games I have seen in the First Final at Optus Oval kicking 8 goals on and off the bench (Shoulder Injury that he was carrying all year). Only a brilliant 40 disposal game from Cotchin stopped people talking Veszper right up. On the same day Brett Meredith went from possible draftee to early third round to late second rounder with a 30+ possesion game at close to 100% efficentcy only for the remarakable performance of Cotch & Veszper to allow his outstanding day to slip under the radar.

That's great to hear. I am excited about seeing each of them grow and get amongst it at senior level, hopefully sooner rather than later.

 

[Mick Oxlong]

Last time I saw a team of midfielders do well, they beat us by a point to win the GF. Judd, Kerr, Cousins, Fletcher, Waters, Chick, Armstrong, etc... What midfielders will do is alter our playing style and isn't that what everyone has wanted for a while?

 

[Bloods boy from the Bush]

Last time I saw a team of midfielders do well, they beat us by a point to win the GF. Judd, Kerr, Cousins, Fletcher, Waters, Chick, Armstrong, etc... What midfielders will do is alter our playing style and isn't that what everyone has wanted for a while?

Especially these two particular midfielders both lioke to run and carry not play our traditional ball - up stoppage style game.

 

[FM0226]

Last time I saw a team of midfielders do well, they beat us by a point to win the GF. Judd, Kerr, Cousins, Fletcher, Waters, Chick, Armstrong, etc... What midfielders will do is alter our playing style and isn't that what everyone has wanted for a while?

Well I would have been happy with these picks if we didn't pick a small/medium in the first round 2006, three medium players in 2005, a small in our highest pick in 2004, our first and second picks on small/mediums in 2003 and our no.5 pick on McVeigh in 2002.

I know it's hindsight, but if we had swapped our priorities and went for a KP at 15 instead of 65, we would have gotten Mitch Brown, Daniel Currie, Malcolm Lynch (best small/medium prospect at that point) and Jess White. And I would be absolutely delighted to have these two kids on board.

 

[scottwade]

Whilst most here considered we would draft at least one KPP, it appears Roos, Ireland & the recruiting team never thought so.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/ne...ay-knight-fever/2007/11/25/1195975871152.html

I went down on Friday to speak to a few kids, and the ones I spoke to were Veszpremi, Meredith, [Andy] Otten [pick 27 to Adelaide] and [Jack] Grimes [pick 14 to Melbourne]," Roos said. "So we targeted four and got two of them, so that gives you and indication of how highly we rated those four, and they were the only four I spoke to on Friday.

Of those 4 the only player over 187cm is Otten and his TAC coach referred to him as a tall midfielder, who can also go forward or back. An indication that he was played as a midfielder is that he averaged 26 poss. in the TAC Cup.

More worrying for me was Roos response to our lack of talls.

There had been suggestions the Swans should have gone for key position players to prepare for the retirements in coming years of Michael O'Loughlin, Leo Barry, Peter Everitt and Barry Hall, but Roos said those matters had been addressed during the past year with the recruitment of Jake Orreal, Irishman Brendan Murphy, Peter Faulks, Luke Brennan, former Geelong tall Henry Playfair, and the emergence of 196-centimetre Ed Barlow.

To put those guys in perspective;
Barlow has played 4 AFL games
Orreal & Murphy have played a total of 3 Aussie Rules games between them
Faulks, to date, has shown no likelihood of stepping up
Playfair spent the season in Geelong's reserves, playing 1 senior game in 2007
Brennan stands 186cm and plays no taller.

Lets remember who Roos sees those guys replacing; Barry, Everitt, Hall & O'Loughlin.

10 All-Australian guernseys, 4 B&Fs, 8 leading goalkicking awards, 983 AFL games.

And they are going to be replaced by guys like Orreal & Murphy who in their lifetime have played 3 games of Aussie Rules football.

BIZARRE.

 

[RUNVS]

More worrying for me was Roos response to our lack of talls.

To put those guys in perspective;
Barlow has played 4 AFL games
Orreal & Murphy have played a total of 3 Aussie Rules games between them
Faulks, to date, has shown no likelihood of stepping up
Playfair spent the season in Geelong's reserves, playing 1 senior game in 2007
Brennan stands 186cm and plays no taller.

Lets remember who Roos sees those guys replacing; Barry, Everitt, Hall & O'Loughlin.

10 All-Australian guernseys, 4 B&Fs, 8 leading goalkicking awards, 983 AFL games.

And they are going to be replaced by guys like Orreal & Murphy who in their lifetime have played 3 games of Aussie Rules football.

BIZARRE.

I agree it is very weird. Paul Roos either has a plan to create a entirely new strategy in AFL which requires fewer key position players or he has completely lost the plot and needs to be sent to the nearest funny farm.

 

[mj23]

The only thing I can think of is when say Hall Everitt and blokes like that retire it frees up alot of money then we can poach ready made forwards and backs and we don't have to waste time bringing them through. Just a thought our last 2 full forwards were ready made.

 

[Bloods boy from the Bush]

More worrying for me was Roos response to our lack of talls.

To put those guys in perspective;
Barlow has played 4 AFL games
Orreal & Murphy have played a total of 3 Aussie Rules games between them
Faulks, to date, has shown no likelihood of stepping up
Playfair spent the season in Geelong's reserves, playing 1 senior game in 2007
Brennan stands 186cm and plays no taller.

Lets remember who Roos sees those guys replacing; Barry, Everitt, Hall & O'Loughlin.

10 All-Australian guernseys, 4 B&Fs, 8 leading goalkicking awards, 983 AFL games.

And they are going to be replaced by guys like Orreal & Murphy who in their lifetime have played 3 games of Aussie Rules football.

BIZARRE.

So you would rather have a couple of 18 year olds with potential and no gurantee of ever playing AFL football ahead of the names you mentioned. I agree I expected us to take at least one tall but given the lack of depth in this draft particularly in the KPP department I'd say it was a good idea not to. All of the above names have bah Brennan who as you say is too short and not Leo Barry the rest are all better options IMO than a majority of the KPP's in this draft from pick 25 onwards.

 

[bloods01]

The only thing I can think of is when say Hall Everitt and blokes like that retire it frees up alot of money then we can poach ready made forwards and backs and we don't have to waste time bringing them through. Just a thought our last 2 full forwards were ready made.

We can't rely on poaching player's for ever. We poached Lockett. We poached Hall. We poached Williams. We poached Davis and son on. I would like to see the club create their own superstars and the only way to do that is at the draft table.

 

[FM0226]

The only thing I can think of is when say Hall Everitt and blokes like that retire it frees up alot of money then we can poach ready made forwards and backs and we don't have to waste time bringing them through. Just a thought our last 2 full forwards were ready made.

Quality KPPs don't grow on trees - Even with salary cap room, trying naming one or two quality KP players that we actually stand a chance of stealing - in my view there's very good reasons why every club except us is trying to load up on KP prospects - it's obvious that probably only 1 in 5 KP prospects will turn into geniue stars while the rest are either servicable or simply rubbish and I have a lot of trouble remembering a club that failed to hold onto their quality KP players in the past 5 years.

We got lucky with Lockett. We paid a high price for Hall and he was no guarrentee of reaching All-Australian quality (we got very lucky with him as well). Craig Bolton was an unwanted MIDFIELDER/flanker at Brisbane. Ted Richards is probably the type of quality that we are likely to get from trading a first round pick.

At this point stage, I feel that we have relied on too much luck in getting the list we have today (where most of the better players in our side are late picks/rookie list players/recycled players while our early picks all tend to be merely servicable players).

If this years draft is envisioned to be lacking in quality KPs, then our recruiting staff should have had a good idea and we should have been looking at KP prospects at last year's draft (I'm still a bit filthy about missing out on Mitch Brown).