2007 or 2008?

[Grendel]

How soon before a really really strong competitve squad can be put together for the HFC to once again be challenging not for just respect (something I reckon we made gains on this year fwiw) but as a serious Premiership contender?

As this stage, I'm thinking it's more likely the latter of 08 than 07.

The core of talent coming through looks the most promsing in years.

We are all stoked to see L, F, R and the others. The stepping up of Hodge to be the footballer we always wanted.

Better signs from Bateman, Brown, Jacobs, Williams.

There's a nice core.

But there are other sides out there. Sides (Saints, W/C) that have fairly young lists and a far greater depth of quality talent than we have at the moment.

There's also the likes of the Dogs with an on-ball brigade the envy of most. Fremantle with what looks to be a potentially enviable list but a flaw of some sort that just seems to stop them achieving to their potential.

Other sides that are working like we are to improve their lists.

Meanwhile, we have to rise to not only meet their improvements but also rise again after that to exceed these opposition clubs.

In 07, we will have the (barring injury) 40-60 gamers starting to emerge on the list. However, we will also be deep into the twilight (if not retirement) of Crawford, Everitt, Smith, and should also be looking for replacements for Hay and Croad (my own view that when a player hit's 3 years out from 30 you should then be making plans to draft/recruit his replacement).

So for mine, I reckon that the players we bring in this year will be critical to helping achieve that next step but that we might have to wait that one more season to have the core of 10-14 sort of players in that 50+ game threshold rather than 6-10.

A little dropping off by then of a few (Adelaide, Swans, North, Melb, Port) sides that don't have quite the same core group coming through. A reasonable injury run, added depth and experience of that one extra season.

I'm not saying there wont be improvement within the list over the next two seasons but for a really top-shelf side, I reckon 2008 might be the year.

 

[Hawk Dork]

My Heart says 2006
But my head says 2008

If that doesnt occur my mouth will say Why?????????????

 

[Nightwolf]

2006 premiership......Gotta aim high...

 

[cs61]

2006 I'd be looking to go at close as we can to the 8, not looking for much more. Just have the best possible season and hopefully that will get us between 8-12 wins, that's the bracket I would like us to be 'at least' thinking about next year.

In terms of been competitive with the others sides, it always hard to say, because I think its natural for supporters to overate their lists. Having said that, I haven't been this optimistic from a hawthorn perspective due to our youngsters ever. We have a great base already, plus our picks this season have another dip at the best talent.

If we are smart about it we can seriously build a list challenging for 2007/8. However every team needs luck with injury, people wanting to stay, and improvements from unexpected areas. I would like to think we'll be playing finals in both of those years.

 

[Gary Shadforth]

I haven't been this optimistic from a hawthorn perspective due to our youngsters ever.

How sweet it is. Patience and understanding permeating through the threads and posts nowadays. A year and a bit ago, the Schwab era, we Hawks were at each others throats absolutely not knowing what hope we had and where we were headed.

Things were nasty. But not now.

The season just gone we appear generally to be pleased with our new coach, albeit a rookie one, the new coaching staff and the youngsters just starting out, with some mongrel in them, blended with experience. I feel there are some surprise packets just about to arrive at Glenferrie - talented rookies added to by buying a couple of experienced key position players.

I have enjoyed this season where in the past five years or so it has been so ordinary. This thread epitomizes hope for the future with higher expectations sooner rather than later.

 

[Gilbert_Hodge]

I think that Hawthorn will start to become a stronger team in 2006 but unfortunatly i think we may narrowly miss the top 8.

I have a good feeling that in 2007 we'll make the 8 and in 2008 go all the way.....Well i hope so!

 

[Binxy]

How sweet it is. Patience and understanding permeating through the threads and posts nowadays. A year and a bit ago, the Schwab era, we Hawks were at each others throats absolutely not knowing what hope we had and where we were headed.

Things were nasty. But not now.

The season just gone we appear generally to be pleased with our new coach, albeit a rookie one, the new coaching staff and the youngsters just starting out, with some mongrel in them, blended with experience. I feel there are some surprise packets just about to arrive at Glenferrie - talented rookies added to by buying a couple of experienced key position players.

I have enjoyed this season where in the past five years or so it has been so ordinary. This thread epitomizes hope for the future with higher expectations sooner rather than later.

Great post Gary. Agree wholeheartedly.

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

I think that Hawthorn will start to become a stronger team in 2006 but unfortunatly i think we may narrowly miss the top 8.

I have a good feeling that in 2007 we'll make the 8 and in 2008 go all the way.....Well i hope so!

U guys are DREAMING!

u forget that u lose your 2 best players in the next 12-24 months..Everitt and Crawford... 2010 is looking more likely as your current crop will be 23-24.

Adelaide will fall slowly... Kangas will be written off but are developing a young squad beneath the exterior of the older guns. Saints/WCE/Geel still ahead of both of us.

lean period ahead for all concerned!

cheers

 

[Nightwolf]

U guys are DREAMING!

u forget that u lose your 2 best players in the next 12-24 months..Everitt and Crawford... 2010 is looking more likely as your current crop will be 23-24.

Adelaide will fall slowly... Kangas will be written off but are developing a young squad beneath the exterior of the older guns. Saints/WCE/Geel still ahead of both of us.

lean period ahead for all concerned!

cheers

 

[cs61]

U guys are DREAMING!

u forget that u lose your 2 best players in the next 12-24 months..Everitt and Crawford... 2010 is looking more likely as your current crop will be 23-24.

Adelaide will fall slowly... Kangas will be written off but are developing a young squad beneath the exterior of the older guns. Saints/WCE/Geel still ahead of both of us.

lean period ahead for all concerned!

cheers

I'm not sure why you presume Crawford will stop in 1-2 years. Has stated he wants to go on for three years, which is 2006, 2007, 2008. Even more likely now he plays off the back flank, and still runs the games out as hard as anyone in the comp. I'm not sure why people make assumptions that his time is limited as he is still up there for the fittest guy in the AFL....

Spider... two years at least I would say. Probably will ruck a whole lot less next year, and finish out playing as a forward for us. two years at least, unlikely three, but has had amazing durability over the years.

How is Crawford our second best player by the way. I'd say Hodge and Mitchell have overtaken him in the midfield ranks, and Bateman even has more of a midfield role than him, with Lewis coming along our reliance on Crawford is well down on previous years, he's still an excellent player for us, but he's not nearly as important as you are making out.

Three more seasons is a long time, I think Shane still have a lot more to offer, and even more to prove. We'll have added draft pick 3 and 6 by then, more and Josh Kennedy f/s next year travis tuck this year... so I would think we are only going to get stronger.

 

[Fabulous]

Until we get a coaching/football structure that can develop the young guys, we are in for a longer wait. 2006 = major decisions.

 

[big buddy38]

Crawf will still be going around when he's 42.

 

[Hawk Dork]

The Hawaiin Marathon

 

[ArjenTheGreat]

is that a knowing smile? or a wait and see smirk?

i hope u guys go ok... you're on the right track.

crawf may be gone a little earlier i hear?

 

[Roughie]

i think hawthorn will make the finals in 07 in the lower half of the 8.......and in 08 onwards we will be serious contenders IMO

 

[Parko]

Until we get a coaching/football structure that can develop the young guys, we are in for a longer wait. 2006 = major decisions.

You obviuosly don't rate Clarkson and co - what are the alternatives?

 

[CyberKev]

I don't go in for all of this, Finalists in 3 years, premiers in 5 type stuff.

Football isn't like studying a discipline at uni for several years and then graduating as a guru.

Teams tend to come on at different speeds, quite unexpectedly at times.

We could sneak a finals spot next year, or we could still be waiting come 2010.

Next time someone tells you that Hawthorn can't be a genuine finals side unti 2008 or later, I suggest you just smile politely, say nothing, and think of how many people swore black and blue that the Adelaide Crows would give the wooden spoon a hell of a shake in 2005. If you're really feeling indulgent, you could also think of how dismal St Kilda were in 2002.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I don't go in for all of this, Finalists in 3 years, premiers in 5 type stuff.

Football isn't like studying a discipline at uni for several years and then graduating as a guru.

Teams tend to come on at different speeds, quite unexpectedly at times.

We could sneak a finals spot next year, or we could still be waiting come 2010.

Next time someone tells you that Hawthorn can't be a genuine finals side unti 2008 or later, I suggest you just smile politely, say nothing, and think of how many people swore black and blue that the Adelaide Crows would give the wooden spoon a hell of a shake in 2005. If you're really feeling indulgent, you could also think of how dismal St Kilda were in 2002.

I agree with everything you've said. I'm not interested in 2007 or 2008, I'm interested in 2006. I won't accept anything less than a full blooded contest for a final 8 spot. I can't believe a couple of teams who made the top 8 in 2005, so a finals spot isn't all that far away. We need to adopt a winning attutude.

It also worries me people are comparing us with St.Kilda. I've been saying all along that a bucket full of draft picks won't be much good to us unless we make it work. Do people really want us to be like St.Kilda? Newsflash people, the Saints have done nothing, and aren't likely to. They lack the desire to be successful, it's their culture.

We need to build a culture where we expect to win, and we will shift heaven and earth to make it happen. A finals spot in 2006 is certainly not beyond our reach. It's up to the players.

 

[CyberKev]

I agree with everything you've said. I'm not interested in 2007 or 2008, I'm interested in 2006. I won't accept anything less than a full blooded contest for a final 8 spot. I can't believe a couple of teams who made the top 8 in 2005, so a finals spot isn't all that far away. We need to adopt a winning attutude.

I know its almost cliche to talk about the importance of having a good run with injury, but if you do get a good run, you can really surprise. Frankly, we're overdue for a fair suck of the sav in this department, given our last four seasons have been abysmal.

Its hard to predict who will get a fun run and who won't, just as you can never be sure who'll unexpectedly unearth a few gems and impact more strongly on the overall competition than expected.

While we may still be a bit raw in some areas, I don't want to see a repeat of 2005 next season with the Hawthorn gameplan. Frankly, it was rubbish and it sends out all sorts of signals to the opposition, and -- more importantly -- our own players that we're employing a defensive mindset and hoping to keep the losing margin down moreso than hoping to win.

We certainly won't be the best side going around in 2006, but one would hope that we could start to acquaint ourselves with best practice plays that are positive and direct.

Given our last few seasons its easier to talk ourselves down than up, but while we shouldn't expect overt success in 2006, we shouldn't fear the possibility of it either. People forget that West Coast was pretty much where we are now at the end of 2001, coming off back to back seasons in the bottom four. Eagle tossers like to dribble on about how it was all due to having Ken Judge at the helm, while conveniently overlooking the anaemic state of their list at the end of 1999, the huge list turnover during the Judge years, and the horrendous injury run the side incurred while trying to bring young footballers into the side.

The Eagles had some youngsters come on in 2002, had a few older players return to touch and had a great injury run and were thus able to sneak into the 8.

Never say never.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I know its almost cliche to talk about the importance of having a good run with injury, but if you do get a good run, you can really surprise. Frankly, we're overdue for a fair suck of the sav in this department, given our last four seasons have been abysmal.

I honestly believe 2005 has ushered in a new direction in football. In the past, injuries have been just a matter of "luck", but I feel the rehabilitation and prevention of injuries is an area that has been relatively unexplored.

We've seen the Crows march into the top 8 this season to be minor premiers, and just missing out on the Grand Final. Some people have said they had luck with injuries, but never before have we seen a Coach so versed in the esoterics of injury prevention as Neil Craig. In other words, preparation of player fitness to prevent injuries from occuring in the first place, and ultimate quick rehabilitation.

This is an area which has let the Hawks down badly over the years and I think we need to observe the Craig method. Sure you can have some bad luck with injuries, but when you coninue to have "bad luck", after a while you need to look at the reasons why.

 

[Fabulous]

You obviuosly don't rate Clarkson and co - what are the alternatives?

Where do we start.

Forget Matthews. N.A.

Current coaches: Connolly - Knocked it back last year.

Current assistants: McDonald, Longmire, Harvey, O'Donnell, Royal etc All would be better.

Who would I want?.... Royal... quality...has done the hard yards... respected.

 

[cs61]

. The thing with Clarkson there was no ego, he started from scrath, brought in youth, and has changed the club around. I don't know what you'd have expected him to do. The games against Melbourne, Freo and Brisbane were all considered unwinable this year. We were favourites for the wooden spoon, didn't play our best players (youth policy), and still avoided bottom of the table.

We saw the best of Hodge, Bateman and Mitchell (before they were injured), Brown, Croad, and Williams this year.... credit to the coaching staff at all there? He brought in a fitness guy who reduced our soft tissue injuries by about 120%, and have started to gain some respect and hardness to our side.

I would have to say I'm very impressed with his rebuilding strategy, bringing roughead, franklin, and lewis to the club. I'm happy with him, and am not sure on what basis who can say he isn't rated yet.

 

[freak29]

next year we should make the top 8. roughead, lewis, franklin, young and co. have a year under their belt. we should be looking to recruit more kpp and maybe one more mid. hopefully rob campbell will be fit so spida can rest in the forward line. i dont rate simon taylor. i would expect a premiership within 4-5 years.

 

[Parko]

Who would I want?.... Royal... quality...has done the hard yards... respected.

Whist respected - Royal is continually overlooked - suggests the package is not complete.
I don't agree with the other coaches stated as they are untried and are a year behind AC in development. I think you should reserve your judgement until the end 2006. Pointless sacrificing a year of development only to introduce another Rookie coach.

 

[CyberKev]

Current coaches: Connolly - Knocked it back last year.

How good is Connolly really?

Is hardly setting the world alight with a talented list at Freo.

Current assistants: McDonald, Longmire, Harvey, O'Donnell, Royal etc All would be better.

What makes us certain Longmire would be able to do a better job?

Harvey, that's a definite "NO thankyou!" Has repeatedly shown that he wants a cushy in to head coaching and that he lacks the courage and character to back himself outside of his comfortable Windy Hill surrounds.

O'Donnell has done nothing other than support Leigh Matthews in Brisbane and has said on several occasions that he is not champing at the bit for a senior post.

Royal has been a long termer, but as Parko suggests, he hasn't been continually overlooked by clubs without good reason.

Clarkson needs to markedly overhaul the current gameplan, although even allowing for the dismal nature of the 2005 version, the huge list turnover & the bad injury run, we could've and should've put 10 wins on the board.

None of the other guys you mentioned have done anything to suggest that they could be doing a markedly better job at Glenferrie right now, so I'll give Clarkson the benefit of the doubt for 2006.