2009 captain

[AFL is Number One]

Junior Mac or Cam Bruce for me . Even have them continue as Co Captains is ok.
Go Dees

 

[Headless]

... Wasn't it going to be announced before Christmas?

They have 11 hours and 30 minutes left...

 

[AFL is Number One]

Out of interest, are we the only club still to anounce its 2009 Captain / Captains / Leadership Group?

I think that the delay in announcement is linked to a delay in getting a major sponsor, and this could be holding things up. Also, I have a feeling that we wanted to announce the two, together.

In any case, no need to rush. Make it in Jan 2009.

Does it really make a difference if we announce today, tommorrow or next year?

 

[davey_magik]

They said that they were considering announcing it after the end of the Mansfield camp, which finished a few days ago now, but since they don't train between then and when they start up again in Jan we won't be announcing it for a couple weeks yet.

 

[Supermercado]

Neitz - Victorian - 2000-08 - Born Ulverstone Tasmania
Lyon - Victorian - ?? - 1998 - Born Devonport Tasmania

Apply the Wayne Carey rule and claim they're from every state and territory in the commonwealth as well as Christmas Island.

 

[Bartram_Class]

Demonology reports Junior got the job, with Bruce as VC.

I don't want to believe it personally, though Junior getting it would pave the way for Brock in 2010.

 

[hawk life]

I no it's hard for me to comment because i am an outsider but even though he has had a couple of stupid moments you have to have Brock Mclean as your captain. I love the way he plays and what is more inspiring especially for younger players is he put up his hand and donated a lot of money to the Melbourne football club. Gee can you imagine watts in his first game in the tunnel looking at brock hearing him motivate the boys and going to himself "shit this guy loves this club more than anything, he bleeds for this club and put his money were his passion lies i have to show I am worthy to be in the same team as him" Bloody hell I would be inspired to follow him.

Very deep but this is what a captain does for a footy club I think. he can lead you out of the shit you are in!!!!

I love passion in footy.

 

[booshboy]

yeahh Brock Mclean it has to be, or Austin Wonnaemiri that'd be funny.

 

[davey_magik]

Demonology reports Junior got the job, with Bruce as VC.

I don't want to believe it personally, though Junior getting it would pave the way for Brock in 2010.

It is the 2nd best option to Brock getting it.

I'll trust the players on this one. Hoping Brock gets it next year.

 

[Beats]

or Austin Wonnaemiri that'd be funny.

I lol'd.

Junior is my number 1 option, we have no stand outs imo, but by the end of next year hopefully there will be one ready to take the captaincy when junior retires.

 

[Deenamite]

I no it's hard for me to comment because i am an outsider but even though he has had a couple of stupid moments you have to have Brock Mclean as your captain. I love the way he plays and what is more inspiring especially for younger players is he put up his hand and donated a lot of money to the Melbourne football club. Gee can you imagine watts in his first game in the tunnel looking at brock hearing him motivate the boys and going to himself "shit this guy loves this club more than anything, he bleeds for this club and put his money were his passion lies i have to show I am worthy to be in the same team as him" Bloody hell I would be inspired to follow him.

Very deep but this is what a captain does for a footy club I think. he can lead you out of the shit you are in!!!!

I love passion in footy.

Well said. The vast majority of us want Brock for the way he goes about his footy but obviously those in the inner sanctum have other ideas.

 

[richskee]

when will we find out??

 

[bloodpumpsRnB]

Read all about who I think should captain the club in today's blog

 

[JC23]

McLean, clear choice

 

[RandB]

I think we are at the same point as Collingwood were a year ago. If we go with JMac as an interim captain it will be pretty similar to them going with Burns. Both experienced hard working midfielders that don't have the flair of a captain but do have the respect of others and lead by their hard work. Unlike Collingwood however we have some more stand out options for captain for the next generation.

I personally think JMac (or to a less extent Green or Bruce) is the right option for this year. Whilst we have the wheels in motion for a new generation of team, the reality is that many of our new exciting draftees will not play too much this year and it will still take some time to get some shape and structure to our line up.

We will cop beltings once again this year as younger players take a more prominent position in the side from round 1 (even though our development will be fast-tracked). Our captain this year in many respects will be the fall-guy for our bad season. Not only will they have to cop that but they will also have the task of galvanising the side in a difficult year whilst worrying about their own form and contribution - to me JMac is the player for this role.

McLean is (rightly) clearly the front runner for the leader of our next generation. As a player he doesn't take a backwards step, racks up many contested possesions and plays his heart out. It is obvious why so many people have earmarked him for captain this year. To me however, 2009 is about McLean showing the younger players around him why he should be chosen captain. Lets face it, as much as he was a great player in 2008 our younger players didn't really have much time to learn from him as we were generally in disarray. There is also a case that he has to do a bit more to earn the captaincy (at some level of arguement). 2008 was a bit of a haze for many youngsters who were thrown in the deep end - out with the old and in with the new. This year those youngsters (who played last year) as well as the new recruits this year will be able to take more of a focus on players like McLean and understand why he has earnt the captaincy (which he should get in 2010). Show them what achieving and earning is all about then they will know that they are playing for a guy who has earnt his spot as captain and is the right bloke to play for for the next generation. It will also create a genuine respect for McLean among the juniors and his peers. Importantly though, the next generation won't truely be on the park until 2010 even though we will blood a few new players this year.

This I believe is the logical step to take. It is ok for many people to say things to the effect of "make McLean captain now" but with such a young team we have and McLean still at a young age I think we need a little bit of process here. Neitz was captain of our club for 9 years up to half way through last year. I find this mentality that we have to automaticlly make McLean captain now or the sky will fall in quite rediculous. Dean Bailey and the club have shown that they will not rush things or compromise our processes - this was especially noticable in how we drafted and it will be noticable in how we play this year and how he bloods the new players.

We quite simply do not need co-captains IMO, however there may be a case if they go with JMac as he may be used sparingly in the middle so other players can get a go in this important area but I would prefer just the one captain.

Many people beleive that McLean is the man to lead us in any situation but at a young age I think it is a pointless arguement as far as putting him in a position where he has to be the accountable person for what will be a rather crap 2009 - contrary to what some people say, there is no benefit to this. We could argue about this all day but it isn't a good look for a club to have a 22/23 year old copping criticism and being made accountable (scapegoat) for a poorly performing side and I suspect the club may understand this. Captaincy is also not just about running through the banner first and having a great game. It is about focusing on players around the ground, being an extension of the coaches ethos, being accountable when the team goes bad, playing by example and being mature enough and educated enough to know instinctively how to read the game and have the respect of your players. To me McLean can tick one box and that is how he plays. There is no question that (whilst he needs to improve a little on fitness/pace) he plays by example. As far as the other areas go he needs to improve this year and show the players around him what achieving goals is all about. If Bailey does not see him as captaincy material for 2009 as well as the other senior players then that is proof in the pudding that McLean does not have the necessary confidence of his coach or respect of other senior players. This is not to say that he won't get to that point but he needs another year before he is at that point.

A great captain is not just a player who plays well more often than not and does the inspirational stuff on the field, they are also an extension of the coach. Discipline, education and communication and reinforcement of what the coach stands for are an underrated facet of captaincy. Michael Voss and James Hird for example were great players in thier own right but they were also in many ways synonomous with their respective coaches in Matthews and Sheedy - they were extensions. When you saw Voss playing the way he did and revving up the players you could see that it was in many ways like Leigh Matthews (who commands respect) communicating to the players on the ground. Just as an aside, I notice that Nick Maxwell copped a lot of flack for being appointed captain at Collingwood. To me he is nowhere near the player of a McLean or most AFL captains (or even other Collingwood players) but in at least one area he is a good choice for Collingwood and that is as an extension of the coach. It is no surprise that Malthouse was happy at his appointment. IMO Maxwell will do a good job at conveying and reinforcing the coaches ethos and following the instructions of the coach. If Bailey is not convinced that McLean is at this point then that is something we have to accept and (given that McLean is still young) something that he can work into this year - he will only get better.

We need to remember that one of the pivotal aspects of Dean Bailey's coaching over the next couple of years will be how strong the mentor/protégé relationship is that he has established with the playing group - especially given he is a new coach and we have many young players coming into our side. Obviously gameplan and instruction/development is important but he needs to be seen as and respected as a teacher by the players. David Neitz was a good figure on/off ground for Bailey to use to help establish this and to me McDonald would help Bailey further develop this relationship this year as a mature player that Bailey can use to assist in this area. To me, a 22/23 year old player (McLean) is inadequate for this aspect at such an early stage of Bailey's time at the club. I think the coach would find this important and with another year under both Bailey's belt and McLean's belt I think Brock would be in a better position (in 2010) to extend the mentor/protégé relationship that is important to Bailey's coaching as well as be a great player/captain in his own right.

Many people will take this out of context but we have to remember that it is not the Brock McLean show. We have many good players (some who played better in 2008 and some who played worse) who can be great players for us going forward - many of them older than McLean. It is about the team and the good of the team, not just "rewarding" a player for having a good year. If McLean gets the captaincy this year then to me it is too much about being a reward. If he gets it next year (as I would expect) it will be a logical appointment for the good of the team. McLean will be far better equipped for captaincy next year IMO and I think he will have players under him who understand (from this year) the type of captain they are playing for as well as a better structured team to support him.

Most of all McLean's heart is in the right spot and whilst the 10k donation he made to the club shouldn't be a ticket to the captaincy, it does show that he is a club man. This is a priceless thing for us in difficult times (going forward) and tells me that he will do what ever it takes to achieve a position of leadership for the club through-out the future and should be our 2010 captain.

2009

C McDonald
VC Green or Bruce
_______________

2010

C McLean (pending any extraneous circumstances like severe injury or a shocking 2009 which won't happen anyway)

VC ?

 

[Wolfmother2]

I want Brock now but from the the recruiting pages people believe Grimes and even Watts have Capt written all over them so maybe there waiting to see if any of them step up

 

[Wolfmother2]

Just read the long post RnB and I don't really agree with you.... I would hate the club to appoint a capt for one year.... If they plan to give it to McLean in 2010 give it to him now and let him develop into whilst the club is developing... Although you makes some good points why Mclean should get it in 2010, If they give it to JMac or Bruce they should at least two years in the job...

 

[RandB]

Just read the long post RnB and I don't really agree with you.... I would hate the club to appoint a capt for one year....

For a team in transition like ours and with the right player as captain I think it wouldn't hurt us in the slightest. It hasn't hurt Collingwood who went from a long term captain in Buckley, had a transition year with Burns (the logical player) and then went with a younger player in Maxwell for the future who was (as far as Collingwood were concerned) ready.

If they plan to give it to McLean in 2010 give it to him now and let him develop into whilst the club is developing...

Personally I find this to be a trivial arguement. You could say that about any player who isn't ready for the captaincy - hell even Jack Watts looks like captaincy material, maybe throw him in and he can "develop". The reality is that we are not just any club. We are truely in transition with a new (young) coach in his second year who needs the support of senior leadership. McLean just isn't there yet IMO where the team and coach can fully benifit. It is all very well to say that McLean can grow as captain this year but meanwhile the coach doesn't have the experienced player he needs to get the group where he wants it. Like I said before, it isn't just one player we are talking about here - it is the whole team that needs to develop and for that to happen Bailey needs the right type of player as captain.

If they give it to JMac or Bruce they should at least two years in the job...

Whilst I understand your sentiment in that we would have perhaps a bit more stability with less captaincy changes I have to say that this is a counter-productive strategy. Now, it isn't every year that you lose a 9 year long serving captain from your team. We have to deal with this whilst keeping an eye on the future. If say McDonald got the captaincy, I see no reason what so ever to keep a younger player (such as McLean) out of the captaincy the following year if they are actually ready to serve as captain in most facets of captaincy. That notion that the next captain needs at least 2 years is more or less placing a constraint on us that we don't need. We all know that McDonald or any other senior player is not a long term captain option for us and that a younger player will lead the next generation at Melbourne but we need to get the timing right. Let a more senior type player serve his purpose this year IMO but don't over cook it just for the sake of it.

Timing is everything and we need to make a natural progression that ultimately helps the coach do his job and the players play optimally and as a team. If Bailey had been at the club longer or McLean was a year older or our team wasn't so raw I would say McLean is in a better situation for the gig in 2009 but all of these factors tell me he is 1 year off - not to mention how bad it will look for us in a bad year with a 22/23 year old captain copping the brunt. IMO McLean should be good to go next year and will develop this year as will the other players and coach. If he doesn't get the gig in 2010 (but is still earmarked as a future captain) then that is when we can regard the situation as "putting off the inevitable" but not now IMO. Even though McLean (like any player) would develop as captain this year, 2009 is too important a year for us with so many youngsters to not have the best possible captain in place for us which IMO is McDonald. No need to complicate it, if McLean is the right player for the job next year then give it to him.

 

[crusader36]

Enjoyed reading your posts RnB and you make some very good points, convincing me that we should hold off giving Brock the captaincy until 2010.

Brock's first concern should be to play 22 rounds next year and play well. Very well I hope. The captaincy and leadership qualities will come.

Also, the only reason we are all jumping on the Brock for captain bandwagon is because there are not many standouts in the 24-28year old bracket. Let's face it, we don't have many players at all in that age bracket.

We have just recruited a whole bunch of players in the last 1-2years who have either never or played very few matches with Brock (due to injury), and I think it will benefit us as a team and Brock as a captain (if he does eventually get the gig) if Brock earns the players respect on the field first. It is difficult to do this as a player, let alone a first year captain.

 

[Fairtex09]

Still no announcement, its really starting to get annoying, i would like a little bit of direction of where we are heading into the new season. And even more troubling, no major sponsor "STILL"!! any news???

 

[Wolfmother2]

RnB I think you make some good statements but we are all making a few assumption and that is what the players feel towards other players and who is the leaders at the club. Looking at bruce I just don't see it... but the players elected him into the leadership group and because we only see a fraction of what goes on this makes sense (Green getting omitted is a prime example)

Personnally Brock is the sort of person I could see myself following. I don't think he needs a year to develop, I think he was a born leader.

As for the captain supporting the second year coach arguement although valid I think that the new age leadership groups which has six-eight players does this rather than just the Captain as it use to be. Even if Brock was announced Capt he would still have Jmac, Bruce, Green, Miller, Rivers etc in that group ensuring the Coach was supported...

Although I don't think they will appoint Brock I see him as a young Buckey or Voss who is going to be an intrigal part of our club for years and will be a leader so I would love for us to have some stability and give him the job.


p.s I should declare I have a little man love for Brock and maybe Watts

 

[RandB]

RnB I think you make some good statements but we are all making a few assumption and that is what the players feel towards other players and who is the leaders at the club. Looking at bruce I just don't see it... but the players elected him into the leadership group and because we only see a fraction of what goes on this makes sense (Green getting omitted is a prime example)

Mate, you're absolutely right. In fairness, a lot of posters on the Melbourne board know more about what is going on down at the club than I do and obviously people at the club know more than we all do. If I have made a few assumptions then my bad but I don't think that I have been really speaking on behalf of the playing group here. Different players at any club will have their groups and preferences. The angle I have come from is more the responsibilities of the captaincy in an over-all sense and in context of MFC. The majority of posters on this forum want Brock as captain now as he seems the "obvious" candidate so your point is actually backing up my arguement that there is more to it than just the popularity of McLean. You are right to point out how players at the club may see things differently and I have simply extrapolated that concept to the coach himself who is an important person in all of this. I think I have just presented a case for how important it is to get this decision right in what is a critical year for Bailey and the club. As Crusader36 also mentioned, we will have so many new players this year and other youngsters who have played limited games. You can't underestimate the difficulty of Bailey's job to get this young group to learn effectively or the importance of a mature captain in achieving this.

Personnally Brock is the sort of person I could see myself following. I don't think he needs a year to develop, I think he was a born leader.

Here is where it gets a bit grey. It is hard to truely know where a player is at and in many ways I share a similar sentiment to you. I would want to play (in the long term) for a captain like McLean and he definitely has a leadership quality in him but that isn't the end of it, the learning curve of the players under him is at stake here. It is a great endorsement for Brock if the youngsters want to play under him but there are many more facets to captaincy than just this. We'll have to agree to disagree on the point as to whether he needs another year to develop. Another issue to consider is that in Bailey's second year with so many new youngsters, do we actually want a young captain in this role who so many youngsters identify with? It may pay this year to get a more mature captain who specifically does not relate on a peer level with the other players almost to the extent that he is deliberately not their friend. I personally think this would instill more responsibility into the younger players. With the right type of captain this year it could lay the platform for a younger captain (such as McLean) to do a more effective job once they get the gig in the future, the playing group will hopefully have a fundamental attitude/response to instruction and system built into them.

As for the captain supporting the second year coach arguement although valid I think that the new age leadership groups which has six-eight players does this rather than just the Captain as it use to be. Even if Brock was announced Capt he would still have Jmac, Bruce, Green, Miller, Rivers etc in that group ensuring the Coach was supported...

True, the leadership group will be a part of this and who knows where the club is at with their decision making process. I agree that early development for McLean would only help him but it gets back to the team thing and tbh I can't agree with going with a captain if they are not at the level the coach requires, regardless of the leadership group (which was a joke last year anyway). IMO the leadership group should be there in spite of the captain not instead of the captain. FWIW I find the whole leadership group factor a bit diluted. It serves a role on and off the ground but there is no substitute for that single identity (captain) who is not only a strong leader but also the voice of the coach. IMO you need a captain who is at some level of respect and authority for this to work. In no way am I predicting it but if Bailey choses a senior player like McDonald for 2009 captain I will understand why.

I guess there is no point in arguing who should get the gig as there would be both pros and cons to giving the captaincy to such a young player - it definitely isn't all one way stuff here. All I am getting across is that we have to weigh up the pros and cons in context of where the club, team list and coaching department is at - so it is about the team as much as it is about the captain himself.

Although I don't think they will appoint Brock I see him as a young Buckey or Voss who is going to be an intrigal part of our club for years and will be a leader so I would love for us to have some stability and give him the job.

He certainly has those sorts of attributes no doubt. Stability comes from many things though including an efficient learning curve and system within the group and I think Bailey would instill that in the group more effectively with a senior player as captain for this year at least. As far as I am concerned I don't realy want or not want Brock as captain. Many posters on here want him in the job now which is fine, I am not so much against it that I would be annoyed or anything it is just that I would be surprised if they went with him for the reasons I have covered. Either way, I am certainly in the minority on this board and I can see the other benefits to Brock being captain as (if this board is anything to go by) it would get the excitement going even more amongst the supporters.

p.s I should declare I have a little man love for Brock and maybe Watts

Nothing wrong with that mate, they will both be fine leaders amongst the next generation in any capacity.

 

[DemonBlood]

I agree Bruce and Jmac dont quite fit IMO
Neitz was a good leader
Maybe Robbo?
I think in the next couple of years Jones might be a chance aswell

Brock Mclean had some off-feild issues this year so he owuld be lucky if he got picked

 

[DemonBlood]

C-McLean
VC-Watts

Highly doubt Watts will be VC. Considering it's his first year.

 

[the russian40]

apparently a press conference this afternoon, Im assuming a captain announcement, hopefully garnished with a sponsor announcement too