2009 Gone

[Tex200]

I think if we are to look at the remainder of our draw for this season in an objective abnd dispassionate way, its fairly clear we will not play finals.

We need 9 wins from 14 games and those 14 include
Hawthorn x 2
Carlton x 2
St Kilda away
Geelong away

I can't see us winning any of those, but lets say we can scramble 2 wins we then need to win 7 from the other 8. A tall order at best.

As has been widely reported and discussed we will endure pain this year whatever happens. I therefore put forward the proposition that the remainder of this season be used to further develop our younger players such as Jacky, Cook, McKernan, Davis, Sellar, Young etc etc.

Decisions should be made now about players who will not lead us to our next flag.

Of course such a policy will deliver more pain in the short term, but will that pain be more bearable than the pain we endure from the continual investment in players who have really failed to grasp their opportunity and who, at best, keep us from looking too bad.

The benefits are time into young bodies and minds, as well as an inevitably better slurp at the draft trough in November. Evidently there is still a lot of talent to be had this year in the early picks.

I for one would argue this to be a bold and courageous policy in the best long term interests of the club.

 

[magtrev]

No.

I suggest theres another team in town to support if you want to be supporting a team that likes to be giving up well before the 11th or 12th loss.

 

[KUNG FU]

Our odds on a flag in the mid-term future were toast after the 06PF. I think we were overly-confident in 07, went some way making some changes in 08, but have finally got the development/game-winning balance right. I don't think there are any players currently not getting a game that would benefit from some time in the AFL. Sure, there are some TOG with some of those playing (but I don't think we should gift them TOG at the risk of the game and the risk of their place off the injury list) and there are some playing SANFL that would cope with AFL. But none of those rookies would necessarily gain from extra time.

Jacky and Cook, yeah maybe, sometimes and they will get a few opportunities this year, but probably at the expense of Petrenko or a first-22 player's injury. Armstrong is still too skinny and outside. He was always going to be a 2011 sort of prospect. Awesome skills, just behind the 8-ball physically. McKernan could cope, but considering how irate this board gets at Moran, I'd rather keep the expectations and pressure low on McKernan, continue to development him in a number of differing and already challenging roles in the SANFL. Sellar might just be worth punting on, for the sake of it considering where he career is at at the moment, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I do not want to test Davis' shoulders for at least a year and he's still very much up and down in form at this point. Young has only been back playing footy for a year and a half, so more time at Norwood the better. Sloane has come back poorly from injury and is playing worse than last year at this stage. Lee & Kite are in the reserves. That's it off the top of my head. Also, seriously **** this defeatist mindset. As I said after the game, we have the personnel & the plan. We just need a bit of patience pulling it off. Don't panic and rework everything just for the sake of it. That's what led to Maric's omission (for example) in the first place.

Also, this year's draft is average, even at the top end, so who cares what pick we get.

 

[pext]

In all likelihood 2009 is gone.... but that said, I demand that our boys hang on and scrap for every last point they can muster this season. Having young blokes in the side is not an excuse for giving up.

Looking at it objectively, every young bloke who is ready for AFL exposure (Tippett, Mackay, Walker, Dangerfield, Otten, Petrenko and Cook) has been given a crack and looks to be improving as a result.

Smack, Davis, Sloaney and Armstrong aren't ready yet and Sellar, Jacky Gallman and Kite don't have the form to warrant selection.

Although I'd love to see Sloaney, Davis and Smack get a crack, it's not the right time yet. So Doughty, Stevo and Radar get a stay of execution.

 

[Crows4Flag]

Also i dont really see what development skinny Davis and Armstrong are going to get from being belted around in the AFL and losing every game.

We should pick a team each week on the players most likely going to go out there and win a game. We are not Carlton or Port.

 

[jackster83]

Our odds on a flag in the mid-term future were toast after the 06PF. I think we were overly-confident in 07, went some way making some changes in 08, but have finally got the development/game-winning balance right.

Ummm really?

I was under the impression that we have just copped 3 thrashings in a row, or don't second halves count towards premiership points anymore?

The leadership group have failed to stand up when the heat is on. The way we have pretty much given up at times this year is inexcusable. Inexcusable. If we are to develop, we must get game time into players who do have the heart to give their all, and not just when we are thumping Freo.

 

[PCORF]

Our odds on a flag in the mid-term future were toast after the 06PF. I think we were overly-confident in 07

I think the heartbreak of 06 a game where we got robbed by umpiring clearly affected us in 07.

 

[cmndstab]

I agree that we are almost certainly going to miss the finals this year. I don't agree that we should just give up on the year, but I think we need to shift focus a little bit. We still need to try to field winning sides but I think the acceptance of average performances from senior/middle-range players needs to be roped in.


Personally I'd be bringing every single player in and telling them, two poor performances in a four week period will see you dropped and replaced with the next-best performing SANFL player every single time, and you will spend at least a month out. From there start to bring in young players slowly, but don't just dump the senior players and bring in all youth and concede that we will lose every week. It teaches bad habits.

 

[beartoo]

Craig still reckons we can make the finals.
I don't.
We should try to win every match that we can. That is why we play the game.
Tanking at round 11 or 12? Short memories,I don't remember too many people being complimentary about Choko's tactic last year.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

I agree that we are almost certainly going to miss the finals this year. I don't agree that we should just give up on the year, but I think we need to shift focus a little bit. We still need to try to field winning sides but I think the acceptance of average performances from senior/middle-range players needs to be roped in.


Personally I'd be bringing every single player in and telling them, two poor performances in a four week period will see you dropped and replaced with the next-best performing SANFL player every single time, and you will spend at least a month out. From there start to bring in young players slowly, but don't just dump the senior players and bring in all youth and concede that we will lose every week. It teaches bad habits.

Harsh but fair imo

The young blokes are being well nurtured, but bugger me if we should let the others get away with teaching them bad habits and unaccountable football with gold pass selection.

Some have more accrued brownie points than others but a line in the sand must be drawn for all players at some stage.

Doughty should be first to go this week.


Re young blokes that I'd bring in this year...

I'd give Armstrong around 3 games. Too skinny for any more but i reckon it would be a tremendous learning opportunity re work rate and hardness required for next year. Could really set him up for a great pre-season where he should be one of Goodwins project players.

McKernan is the only first year player I'd consider, and i wouldn't mind how many games he gets. Yes, he will develop more but he is physically capable now, has a great work rate and intensity at the contest (so none of the reasons keeping Walker out last year apply to McKernan). I can really see him developing quickly given the opportunity to the point that he could be a first 22 player come the middle of next year. Rare for a big bloke but he displays the necessary signs.

Jacky should come in ahead of Cook next time. It's his turn but i must admit i am not sold yet. Could he be another Jericho...great foot skills, good on a lead as a medium forward, outside player with not much intensity? Hope i am wrong. Even if he is outside, if his work rate is enough to influence the game I'll be happy. Be intriguing to see how he would go this year.

Sellar should not come in until he has his confidence up in the SANFL. I don't mind if he improves all year for Glenelg, starts contributing strongly and then comes in next year. Having said that, if selected, he should have expectations to step up. Horses for courses with development and while he is older i see Sellar as a different character to McKernan...he needs a steady progression.

 

[Encanto]

I agree that we are almost certainly going to miss the finals this year. I don't agree that we should just give up on the year, but I think we need to shift focus a little bit. We still need to try to field winning sides but I think the acceptance of average performances from senior/middle-range players needs to be roped in.


Personally I'd be bringing every single player in and telling them, two poor performances in a four week period will see you dropped and replaced with the next-best performing SANFL player every single time, and you will spend at least a month out. From there start to bring in young players slowly, but don't just dump the senior players and bring in all youth and concede that we will lose every week. It teaches bad habits.

It's amazing how often your correct Stabby, we're all forgetting how we felt half way through the second quarter on Saturday night, I was feeling great, that was only two and a half quarters ago so I won't be giving up yet.

 

[KUNG FU]

Ummm really?

I was under the impression that we have just copped 3 thrashings in a row, or don't second halves count towards premiership points anymore?

The leadership group have failed to stand up when the heat is on. The way we have pretty much given up at times this year is inexcusable. Inexcusable. If we are to develop, we must get game time into players who do have the heart to give their all, and not just when we are thumping Freo.

First, I find it interesting you attack my post, when I'm clearly arguing against swaying the balance further towards to the development side of the spectrum. The OP is clearly the one you should be arguing against. But OK, I'll play.

As I said its a balancing act and its an act in relation to the selection process. I'd like to see who you would play this week in order to win the game whilst not undermining the development process. Also, I'd like to hear which changes you would have made in previous weeks, even with the benefit of hindsight, that would have won us the game, whilst again, taking into account the development of our youngsters. I think its fair to say the development of the youngsters this year has been outstandingly handled - Otten, Dangerfield, Walker and to an extent Petrenko & Cook have all certainly benefitted and our prospects of winning a flag over the next 2-5 year period have exponentially grown.

 

[Coopers]

It's completely, utterly, unacceptable to foster a losing culture.

I also accept it's a tall order for us to get into the finals. But I will not accept it is gone until it mathematically is.

And neither should the players. I don't barrack for Port, Richmond or Carlton for a reason.

edit: or Hawthorn.

 

[jenny61_99]

There will never be a losing culture under Craig, it's not in his nature.

On speaking to most of the team this weekend on a one on one basis, the disappointment and frustration is evident but by far overwhelmed by the general excitement of what the team is trying to achieve. They all know they have to do it better, but they all seem to know that once they do, they will be a force to be reckoned with. I've never felt so confident in our future or this bunch of players Craig is moulding.

 

[NTRabbit]

- "Drop all the seniors and blood the kids for the rest of the year"
- "We need a year right down, you can't win a flag without a couple of top 3 draft picks"
- "Sellar/McKernan/Other needs to be played, so that he can prove himself"
- "Top 10 draft picks are guaranteed stars, therefore are always going to be better than an established player we want dropped for them"

Yes

 

[ZedCrow]

Some easier home games coming up from what we have experienced already. Could possibly snare 5 or 6 wins out of the next 7.

Never know with a bit of confidence going in to tail end of the season, but the next 2 games are season defining. Hopefully steal a win or 2 out of Calton & Hawthorn.

 

[WALL-e]

We were never really in the finals hunt this year, but to roll over would send a very bad lesson to the players.

I'm with Stabby here. All based on performance now.

 

[cmndstab]

Jacky should come in ahead of Cook next time. It's his turn but i must admit i am not sold yet. Could he be another Jericho...great foot skills, good on a lead as a medium forward, outside player with not much intensity? Hope i am wrong. Even if he is outside, if his work rate is enough to influence the game I'll be happy. Be intriguing to see how he would go this year.

Just on this one, I don't think this really describes Jacky does it? He doesn't have great foot skills, but he has a decent amount of intensity. That being said, I've only seen him play once other than his gifted games last year so I may not be correct.

 

[Tex200]

I agree that we are almost certainly going to miss the finals this year. I don't agree that we should just give up on the year, but I think we need to shift focus a little bit. We still need to try to field winning sides but I think the acceptance of average performances from senior/middle-range players needs to be roped in.


Personally I'd be bringing every single player in and telling them, two poor performances in a four week period will see you dropped and replaced with the next-best performing SANFL player every single time, and you will spend at least a month out. From there start to bring in young players slowly, but don't just dump the senior players and bring in all youth and concede that we will lose every week. It teaches bad habits.

Agreed. I would never suggest that we make an annoucement we are conceding the season and nor would i suggest there is a bizarre selection where 10 players are dropped for 10 kids. It must be a sensible blending process over the next 14 rounds. Nevertheless, it should be commenced.

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Just on this one, I don't think this really describes Jacky does it? He doesn't have great foot skills, but he has a decent amount of intensity. That being said, I've only seen him play once other than his gifted games last year so I may not be correct.

Fair call re foot skills in regard to Jacky...not the penetration or goal kicking accuracy of Jericho.

Intensity wise he is an energiser bunny but i mean intensity at the body and contest specifically. Having said that he may be a valuable outside running player or he may improve this aspect of his game as he gains another pre-season of weights and can compete inside a bit more.

 

[davis_756]

I think if we are to look at the remainder of our draw for this season in an objective abnd dispassionate way, its fairly clear we will not play finals.

We need 9 wins from 14 games and those 14 include
Hawthorn x 2
Carlton x 2
St Kilda away
Geelong away

I can't see us winning any of those, but lets say we can scramble 2 wins we then need to win 7 from the other 8. A tall order at best.

Why did you put us on the list of teams you can't beat, we haven't beaten you since 2004 when fev kicked a goal after the siren. Before that you have to go back to the 2001 elimination final we beat you in for a carlton victory.

For mine your defensive flooding/zone does the same to us as sydney, hawthorn, st kilda, essendon and is a reason we have won about 2-3 games against these sides combined in 5 years.

You should expect to beat us this week and be at least 50:50 about the return game in melbourne, I would tip you in both but im a carlton support and I don't even tip against us vs geelong for fear of jinxing us.

 

[cmndstab]

Hope you're right, davis. Nonetheless I doubt we are going to win too many in the near future.

 

[Tex200]

Why did you put us on the list of teams you can't beat, we haven't beaten you since 2004 when fev kicked a goal after the siren. Before that you have to go back to the 2001 elimination final we beat you in for a carlton victory.

For mine your defensive flooding/zone does the same to us as sydney, hawthorn, st kilda, essendon and is a reason we have won about 2-3 games against these sides combined in 5 years.

You should expect to beat us this week and be at least 50:50 about the return game in melbourne, I would tip you in both but im a carlton support and I don't even tip against us vs geelong for fear of jinxing us.

Fair enough.

When I said we might scramble 2 wins I thought next week against Carlton was possible then 1 of either Hawks at home or Carlton away.

 

[Damp Squarie]

The seasons not gone yet.
We just need a win this week and we are on the up.

Difficult but not impossible to string 2 wins together against an undermanned Hawthorn and then head over to belt Essendon for Tysons 300th.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

I don't think there are any players currently not getting a game that would benefit from some time in the AFL.

This is spot on

No point playing the likes of Armstrong, Davis or McKernan yet. They are finding the SANFL tough enough going at the moment. Maybe later in the season perhaps, but I'd think that these three won't be seen before the 2010 preseason.

On speaking to most of the team this weekend on a one on one basis, the disappointment and frustration is evident but by far overwhelmed by the general excitement of what the team is trying to achieve. They all know they have to do it better, but they all seem to know that once they do, they will be a force to be reckoned with. I've never felt so confident in our future or this bunch of players Craig is moulding.

That's pleasing to hear but I wonder how guys like McLeod, Goodwin, Edwards, Doughty etc feel about that. That we're planning for the future but they're basically in their last season or so, so won't be part of it.