2009 Gone

[cmndstab]

Agree, out of boredom (I should be swatvaccing but **** it) i was looking up some of the stats from the 2005/2006 finals series and regular seasons and you forget how much games were actually put into blokes likes Knights, Van Berlo, Maric, Vince, Porplyzia, Bock, Douglas and Rutten in these years.

I'd say that these blokes were taught that the Adelaide Football Club plays football to win all the time, and that finals are expected to be made. I think the finals experience of some of those blokes, along with being in a winning culture from day one where they had to earn their spot is now proving invaluable.

Totally agree with this post. Making the finals, even if we're not serious contenders, can only be extremely positive and beneficial for our players. There are no mixed messages at the Crows - every match is one we want to win and we will never accept being bottom 8.


I'm still not convinced we can make the finals this year, but at least I'm no longer convinced that we can't make the finals.

 

[Witty Remark]

Think he was suggesting that Doughty remain in the side. Not be replaced by Pets or Cook.

Yes upon reading it again I believe you are right .

I shall now go back and edit my original post to agree with him .

 

[jo172]

Totally agree with this post. Making the finals, even if we're not serious contenders, can only be extremely positive and beneficial for our players. There are no mixed messages at the Crows - every match is one we want to win and we will never accept being bottom 8.


I'm still not convinced we can make the finals this year, but at least I'm no longer convinced that we can't make the finals.

You as a Uni teacher agree i shouldn't be swatvaccing?

 

[Wood_Duck]

Yes I agree . IMO those two youngsters will develop more from gaining match time and confidence in the SANFL rather than getting thrown in the very deep end. Sure if their form warrants it, get them in, however i think they will benefit more in the SANFL at this stage of their development.

As for making finals and only playing one game. Well that's one more game than eight other teams, and it's impossible to get finals experience if you're not playing finals!

Id rather finish 9th and introduce the likes of Mckernan, Armstrong, Davis to AFL football than finish 8th.

That doesnt mean you dont play to win.

Cant honestly see what getting beaten in an elimination final does for a young player that any other game of football doesnt do.

Please dont say that finals are more intense or the crowd is noisier, its a game of football.

 

[jo172]

Id rather finish 9th and introduce the likes of Mckernan, Armstrong, Davis to AFL football than finish 8th.

That doesnt mean you dont play to win.

I disagree and feel players should only play as part of the best 22.

Please dont say that finals are more intense or the crowd is noisier, its a game of football.

So why do we discuss things like Neil Craig's finals record if they're just equivalent games of football to the regular season?

 

[Witty Remark]

Id rather finish 9th and introduce the likes of Mckernan, Armstrong, Davis to AFL football than finish 8th.

That doesnt mean you dont play to win.

Cant honestly see what getting beaten in an elimination final does for a young player that any other game of football doesnt do.

Please dont say that finals are more intense or the crowd is noisier, its a game of football.

Finals are more intense and the crowd is noisier !

In truth, finals are a different ball game. The build up is different, the media interest is more, the extra curricular activities can be increased, and the game itself is different. More often than not, if you lose you're out. There is more pressure (both on and off the field). It's nothing like a home and away game where if you play crap, you can come out the following week to redeem.

AND I would rather finish 8th and still introduce the likes of Smack, Louis and Davis - but only if form and match ups dictates. Not simply so they can get a game or two in the AFL.

 

[Wood_Duck]

I disagree and feel players should only play as part of the best 22.



So why do we discuss things like Neil Craig's finals record if they're just equivalent games of football to the regular season?

I dont think we would lose much if (for instance) we rested Walker for a week and gave Mckernan a run, or rested Danger for a week and gave Armstrong a run. I'm hardly suggesting Match defining changes.

We discuss NC finals record because we lose them so often. From a players point of view why should a final be played any differently to any other game of football ?

 

[jo172]

I dont think we would lose much if (for instance) we rested Walker for a week and gave Mckernan a run, or rested Danger for a week and gave Armstrong a run. I'm hardly suggesting Match defining changes.

Well yes considering the two changes you've suggested are different types of players for different types of players. Also, the idea of McKernan playing forward in the immediate future is a bit far-fetched IMO. He's been doing a good job in the ruck for South, but playing as a forward not so much, alot of this is South, but some of it is him. Also, why would you push out two blokes from the team who are young, playing good footy every week and earning their spots for people who haven't?

We discuss NC finals record because we lose them so often. From a players point of view why should a final be played any differently to any other game of football ?

So from a coaches point of view finals are a different game, but from a players they're not? I can't say that makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[Wood_Duck]

Finals are more intense and the crowd is noisier !


In truth, finals are a different ball game. The build up is different, the media interest is more, the extra curricular activities can be increased, and the game itself is different. More often than not, if you lose you're out. There is more pressure (both on and off the field). It's nothing like a home and away game where if you play crap, you can come out the following week to redeem.


AND I would rather finish 8th and still introduce the likes of Smack, Louis and Davis - but only if form and match ups dictates. Not simply so they can get a game or two in the AFL.

back

Definately a different build up, but I think that effects the media and public more than the players. I think there is plenty of pressure in minor round games these days. I doubt you could play under more pressure than for instance the Essendon game on Sunday.

 

[Damp Squarie]

The seasons not gone yet.
We just need a win this week and we are on the up.

Difficult but not impossible to string 2 wins together against an undermanned Hawthorn and then head over to belt Essendon for Tysons 300th.

^^^^

 

[NTRabbit]

Bigfooty False Prophecy Syndrome + Crows Board Hyper-reactionary mindset

 

[Tex200]

Well I cant run and hide...thread looks a real stinker now!

 

[KUNG FU]

Id rather finish 9th and introduce the likes of Mckernan, Armstrong, Davis to AFL football than finish 8th.

That doesnt mean you dont play to win.

Cant honestly see what getting beaten in an elimination final does for a young player that any other game of football doesnt do.

Please dont say that finals are more intense or the crowd is noisier, its a game of football.

I'd agree if I genuinely thought they would benefit from playing H&A games than Otten, Walker & Dangerfield (if not Petrenko & Cook) would benefit from playing finals. They won't.

Also, just looking at this week's draw, if we win this weekend as the bookies have it, we are an absolute shoe-in for the top 8, could jump as high as 5th. Then looking at the rest of the draw:

Sydney @ AAMI - WIN
Richmond @ GC - WIN
Fremantle @ AAMI - WIN
St Kilda @ Docklands - LOSS
Port @ AAMI - 50/50
Geelong @ Skilled - LOSS
Collingwood @ AAMI - 50/50
Hawthorn @ MCG - 50/50
WCE @ AAMI - WIN
Carlton @ Docklands - 50/50

So even if we are being reasonably conservative we should have 11 wins, not even relying on the four 50/50 games. So I'd say there's a very good chance we could get 2-3 finals games experience into the kids, which is awesome, even if development is your sole priority.

 

[sbenno]

Id rather finish 9th and introduce the likes of Mckernan, Armstrong, Davis to AFL football than finish 8th.

That doesnt mean you dont play to win.

Cant honestly see what getting beaten in an elimination final does for a young player that any other game of football doesnt do.

Please dont say that finals are more intense or the crowd is noisier, its a game of football.

I agree, this would be nice, but NC is quoted as saying that if you don't field your most competitive team every week, then you don't really have a good concept of where you're team's development is really at.

Soooooo, I would doubt if any of those guys would get a game purely to give them experience, they'd need to really be pushing for selection to start with.

Having said that, he did play Danger and Otto last year (presumably to give them a taste), and both these guys are having blinders this year, so I still think it's unlikely, but you never know...

 

[cmndstab]

You as a Uni teacher agree i shouldn't be swatvaccing?

What can I say, I wouldn't ask you to do anything I wouldn't do!

 

[Vader]

I would very much like to see Smack Daddy, Armstrong & Davis make their debuts this year. I'm only talking about 1 or 2 games each.

Andy Otten got 2 games last year. In those games he learned the difference between SANFL & AFL footy. He realised how much harder he would need to make it in the AFL. He learned his lessons and put them into action - the results have been phenomenal.

As far as making the finals goes... Right now I'd say that we're a 50-50 proposition of making it to September. Only percentage separates 4th from 9th, with 2 more teams just one win further back. The reason for this is that the competition is so even this year, once you look past the top 2 and bottom 3-4 (even those teams are capable of playing competitive footy at times).

I'm not fussed about whether we make the finals or not. Finals this year are a bonus - it's all about developing the kids. I don't want to see us damaging our chances by playing large numbers of kids before they're ready, but that's never going to happen while Neil Craig is in charge anyway.

What concerns me though is the likelihood of us finishing in 7th or 8th and bowing out in the first week of the finals again. I can already hear the wolves baying for Craig's blood - another finals loss! What a load of cobblers. Sure, we've had some bad finals losses in the past (including last year vs Collingwood) - but finishing 8th and going out in round 1 is not unexpected, nor is it necessarily a bad result for where we are at right now.

 

[hippyhippy]

Sydney @ AAMI - WIN
Richmond @ GC - WIN
Fremantle @ AAMI - WIN
St Kilda @ Docklands - LOSS
Port @ AAMI - 50/50
Geelong @ Skilled - LOSS
Collingwood @ AAMI - 50/50
Hawthorn @ MCG - 50/50
WCE @ AAMI - WIN
Carlton @ Docklands - 50/50

i would feel confident against the saints ... the only game i'd tip a loss to adelaide is geelong.

 

[Mong]

What concerns me though is the likelihood of us finishing in 7th or 8th and bowing out in the first week of the finals again. I can already hear the wolves baying for Craig's blood - another finals loss! What a load of cobblers. Sure, we've had some bad finals losses in the past (including last year vs Collingwood) - but finishing 8th and going out in round 1 is not unexpected, nor is it necessarily a bad result for where we are at right now.

It's been so long since we missed the finals I think we forget how hard the fans take it. If you think losing a final brings out the wolves, just watch and see what happens if we miss the finals.

Making the finals is always more acceptable than missing them.

If we a so scared of losing finals that we'd rather our team miss them altogether, then something is wrong.

I note a few people have stated that they'd rather miss the finals than finish eighth and lose. But the thing is you have to be in it to win it. Unless you think we can win 100% of finals we play you have to accept we will lose some. One thing's for sure, we won't win any by finishing ninth.

 

[Wood_Duck]

It's been so long since we missed the finals I think we forget how hard the fans take it. If you think losing a final brings out the wolves, just watch and see what happens if we miss the finals.

Making the finals is always more acceptable than missing them.

If we a so scared of losing finals that we'd rather our team miss them altogether, then something is wrong.

I note a few people have stated that they'd rather miss the finals than finish eighth and lose. But the thing is you have to be in it to win it. Unless you think we can win 100% of finals we play you have to accept we will lose some. One thing's for sure, we won't win any by finishing ninth.

Its purely hypothetical and more of a retrospective view rather than anyone saying "I hope we miss the finals".
Of course we would like to finish as high as possible. I think the question is, what is the most value or what would you prefer? Finish 8th and lose one final or finish 9th and get a bit more development into a broader range of kids.
Its hypothetical though because no one knows if you will win or lose an elimination final. Its only after you lose an elimination final and we can all say what we should have done and slam Craig for his finals record.

 

[CrowHop]

Its purely hypothetical and more of a retrospective view rather than anyone saying "I hope we miss the finals".
Of course we would like to finish as high as possible. I think the question is, what is the most value or what would you prefer? Finish 8th and lose one final or finish 9th and get a bit more development into a broader range of kids.
Its hypothetical though because no one knows if you will win or lose an elimination final. Its only after you lose an elimination final and we can all say what we should have done and slam Craig for his finals record.

I'd prefer neither. I'd rather, play the youth, finish 8th and win the final.

Question - Do we try introduce Petrenko, Cook and Mckernan in place of Symes/Reilly/Moran* purely for the experience of AFL football at some stage? Or do we introduce a new face in to the team only when an opportunity presents itself ?

To me, the ladder position is just a consequence of how you develop and/or play your squad in any given year. Do it right and have some luck, you make the finals. Get it wrong, and get unlucky with form/injuries, you may probably miss.

When you think about it, there can't be a huge differential between 8th and 9th in any given year. (1 game ? Percentage only?)

At this rate, if we finished 9th, I dont think many people will be complaining we didnt play enough youth. Last year maybe, but not this year.

 

[Wood_Duck]

I'd prefer neither. I'd rather, play the youth, finish 8th and win the final.

Thats kind of stating the obvious. Im sure you got the point I was making.

 

[CrowHop]

Thats kind of stating the obvious. Im sure you got the point I was making.

Yep, I get your point.

The response wasnt aimed at you so much (even though I did quote you) but it seems that some people think that it's one or the other.

Either debut some more youth (McKernan, Armstrong etc) and miss the finals OR make the finals without debuting these guys.

I dont see why we can't do both.

 

[beartoo]

Craig on the AFC site says that he thinks McKernan, Davis and a few others are close to debuting. Check it out at www.afc.com.au

 

[TheLeftFist8]

Craig on the AFC site says that he thinks McKernan, Davis and a few others are close to debuting. Check it out at www.afc.com.au

Interesting stuff.

I'd say a good second half by Maric last week prevented McKernan's debut this week.

As long as they can contribute I'd love see McKernan and Davis get a couple games this year. McKernan 2R/forward and Davis to release Otten for a taste of the midfield.

 

[cmndstab]

Interesting stuff.

I'd say a good second half by Maric last week prevented McKernan's debut this week.

As long as they can contribute I'd love see McKernan and Davis get a couple games this year. McKernan 2R/forward and Davis to release Otten for a taste of the midfield.

I wonder... if Maric hadn't had a decent second half and had been dropped this week, would McKernan have got the gig before Sellar? I guess it depends on whether the club wants to play Sellar entirely as a KPP or if they would give him a gig in ruck as well.