List Mgmt. 2013 Draft Discussion

[Igloo]

I refuse to believe we will take anyone but Templeton until he doesn't slide and is most likely taken in the mid 20's.
But the slide, it's gonna happen. Keeping the faith

 

[TBOW]

What do we reckon? Harvey or Conlon? I can't be stuffed reading the previous million posts.

I'm most excited about pick 42. We can't go wrong with our first pick so 42 is the real question mark.

I think Conlon has much more potential, but I'd prefer to go for someone like Sicily, Miller, Bourke or Wilson at 42

 

[fronkalicious]

Love Harvey. Great get at 42 IMO

 

[igloo dweller]

Dannnnnnnnnn and other draft watchers...

a lot of talk about MB's ceiling and potential of being elite, hence being linked with P4. also quite a bit of talk from the doubters and sceptics (realists?) are highlighting the risk of him not fulfilling this potential.

he is obviosuly a high risk-high reward sort of pick, and i've heard all about his best-case scenario. so...

what is this kid's floor? if he fails to live up to the potential, is he likely to be a 150+ game farren ray type of 'failure' (gets brownlow votes, best 22 but never best 10); 100 game tambling 'failure' (occasional good games but never really delivers, probably traded a couple of times); or a zeph skinner / oakley-nichols (mostly not to AFL standard).

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Dannnnnnnnnn and other draft watchers...

a lot of talk about MB's ceiling and potential of being elite, hence being linked with P4. also quite a bit of talk from the doubters and sceptics (realists?) are highlighting the risk of him not fulfilling this potential.

he is obviosuly a high risk-high reward sort of pick, and i've heard all about his best-case scenario. so...

what is this kid's floor? if he fails to live up to the potential, is he likely to be a 150+ game farren ray type of 'failure' (gets brownlow votes, best 22 but never best 10); 100 game tambling 'failure' (occasional good games but never really delivers, probably traded a couple of times); or a zeph skinner (mostly not to AFL standard).

It's always tricky to say. If he fails I don't think he'll be at the Skinner level (since he has some idea WTF he's doing on a football field - although admittedly I miss Zeph's backflips and huge leaps) but I'd be surprised if it's the Ray level as well. The problem is his inconsistency and lack of a position that he can truly make his own. If he can't improve on those aspects it's going to be difficult for him to make it at AFL level.

 

[Kelvin31]

Before the sky falls in relation Bonts selection.

Based on our current team on "paper" maybe Jason McCartney & Dalrymple are looking at these scenarios in terms of current structure and future needs?

Is Aish "similar" (not exactly) to a McCrae?
Is Billings "similar" to a Hrovat/Dahlhaus?
Is Scharenberg "similar" to a Stringer/Crameri?

If so.....

Is Bonts "unique" to our current line up and hard to match up on?

.

 

[Kony Abbott]

It's always tricky to say. If he fails I don't think he'll be at the Skinner level (since he has some idea WTF he's doing on a football field - although admittedly I miss Zeph's backflips and huge leaps) but I'd be surprised if it's the Ray level as well. The problem is his inconsistency and lack of a position that he can truly make his own. If he can't improve on those aspects it's going to be difficult for him to make it at AFL level.

Thanks for your write-up on MB Dan, however it made me more uncertain than ever, I still agree Aish is the best fit but MB is just such a tantalising prospect.
Perhaps the recruiting staff see his attitude towards his footy as being an indicator that he will be able to fulfil his potential, anyone with talent and smarts who is prepared to work their rear end off to become the best they can be is worth having around, and I can't see us looking at someone who doesn't possess that attitude. I think if it comes down to MB/Aish we could do a lot worse than end up with either of them, my main fear however is that Collingwood will get Aish and the berger

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Based on our current team on "paper" maybe Jason McCartney & Dalrymple are looking at these scenarios in terms of current structure and future needs?

In my opinion:

Is Aish "similar" (not exactly) to a McCrae?

No.

Is Billings "similar" to a Hrovat/Dahlhaus?

No.

Is Scharenberg "similar" to a Stringer/Crameri?

No.

Is Bonts "unique" to our current line up and hard to match up on?

Height-wise, yes, but otherwise no. He's very similar to both Stringer and Macrae and will play the same role.

The fact that I perceive him as more of the same is actually my main reason for being against his selection. If we're taking him though we're obviously confident we can get the best out of him and in that case I'm happy we're taking him.

 

[murphy's twin]

So we will have 4 main extractors (Libba, wallis, Rat and Smith) to go with 5 main inside-outside link players in Stringer, McRae, Dal, Hunter and Bonts. If your worried about the outside run it's not very hard with Tutt being in the long term plan and JJ being there to rotate. I think the mix is looking mighty fine.

 

[Zgope1]

Dannnnnnnnnn and other draft watchers...

a lot of talk about MB's ceiling and potential of being elite, hence being linked with P4. also quite a bit of talk from the doubters and sceptics (realists?) are highlighting the risk of him not fulfilling this potential.

he is obviosuly a high risk-high reward sort of pick, and i've heard all about his best-case scenario. so...

what is this kid's floor? if he fails to live up to the potential, is he likely to be a 150+ game farren ray type of 'failure' (gets brownlow votes, best 22 but never best 10); 100 game tambling 'failure' (occasional good games but never really delivers, probably traded a couple of times); or a zeph skinner / oakley-nichols (mostly not to AFL standard).

the thing is, he's a good footballer. The guy does good things around the ball and when he gets it. Therefore his floor is him just being a flanker/wingman and not what i believe he can be which is a genuine inside outside mid. He will definitely be a best 22 player because he's no doubt a good footy player.

 

[Nath09]

Perhaps I'm being daft but a few people have said that Bontempelli is exactly like Stringer and Macrae. How can he be like these two when they're both fairly different types? Secondly, if Bontempelli is as versatile as everyone gives him credit for, how is it that he is being pigeonholed so easily?

 

[HK_Bulldog]

Not sure how you MB is comparable to Macrae or Stringer. Stringer is explosive with big game instincts. Macrae is Mr consistency who can be relied upon to rack up high numbers and has great workrate. MB is neither explosive or consistent. MB plays taller than Macrae, is more inside and better hands in tight. Compared to Stringer, MB can run all day and is more inclined to attack with a long well placed handball to a runner whereas Stringer will take them on and smash through with spped and strength. Apart from height, don't see the comparison myself...

 

[HK_Bulldog]

If Bontempelli has the brains of Gia and the tank/workrate of a genuine midfielder, I can't see how he can fail (injuries permitting)

 

[yebiga]

When I look at Marcus bontempelli,I see jarred Brennan
Now, jarred also could have been anything and perhaps Marcus has more mental strength desire and focus
But to be honest, I do not see us taking him
Under BMac s tenure we recruit natural footballers and Marcus is not
KK, billings, Sharenberg and Aish are
And really Marcus's kicking whilst long is not a pinch on KKs, if we want a tall mid fielder then I would go with KK, who is a much better kick, moves like a footballer, is quicker, good side step, every bit as much upside and almost as tall.

I say bontempelli is not coming to the whitten oval

 

[timtamWB]

This is an interesting statement, given teh combien results had him bottom 10% for 20m sprint, although he was middle of the pack for repeat sprints.

It's odd that two guys we seem to be considering (MS & MB) are taller guys that don't have a set position at AFL level at this stage

With those two, they can play forward, back, or through the midfield, which also fits the "players that can play anywhere" mantra. And perhaps Macca wants players that he can mold into how he sees fit. I don't see it as odd.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

I watched Bontempelli's footage on the weekend and liked what I saw. Having listened to the kid speak during his interview, he really does present well and I support the view that he appears to be a top bloke.

Plenty in this thread seem to be struggling as to how he might fit into one of several stereotypes for AFL players. Personally I don't see the need to conform to these stereotypes.

He is tall and good. Fair to say that we don't have that many of this type of player on our list.

Ticks enough boxes for me. Just my 2 cents.

EDIT:
The Jared Brennan comment is interesting. Looking at the glass half-full, I see Matthew Pavlich personally. Tall and can play through the midfield.

 

[timtamWB]

Dannnnnnnnnn and other draft watchers...

a lot of talk about MB's ceiling and potential of being elite, hence being linked with P4. also quite a bit of talk from the doubters and sceptics (realists?) are highlighting the risk of him not fulfilling this potential.

he is obviosuly a high risk-high reward sort of pick, and i've heard all about his best-case scenario. so...

what is this kid's floor? if he fails to live up to the potential, is he likely to be a 150+ game farren ray type of 'failure' (gets brownlow votes, best 22 but never best 10); 100 game tambling 'failure' (occasional good games but never really delivers, probably traded a couple of times); or a zeph skinner / oakley-nichols (mostly not to AFL standard).

Honestly I think his floor is similar to Tambling. He'll get the games, impact on some games, but overall be fairly disappointing.

 

[igloo dweller]

It's always tricky to say. If he fails I don't think he'll be at the Skinner level (since he has some idea WTF he's doing on a football field - although admittedly I miss Zeph's backflips and huge leaps) but I'd be surprised if it's the Ray level as well. The problem is his inconsistency and lack of a position that he can truly make his own. If he can't improve on those aspects it's going to be difficult for him to make it at AFL level.

thanks dan.

makes for interesting pondering. i'm a bit of a gambler with this sort of thing. the upside and undpredictability of of mccrae last year, and the potential and power of stringer (despite his injury) had me hooked more than ollie wines. i'm happy for our recruiting guys to take a big swing on the guy they think is the future star even if it means we have a few misses along the path. in 5 years, we'll be in a position where we're looking for match-winners, not more contributors. MB shapes as a bloke who may tear apart the third Q in a semi-final to me. i do think that our list is in a place where the calculated risk is well in play (as opposed to St. Kilda and Melbourne who simply must not miss).

with all that said...i think aish is the guy!

 

[Mofra]

With those two, they can play forward, back, or through the midfield, which also fits the "players that can play anywhere" mantra. And perhaps Macca wants players that he can mold into how he sees fit. I don't see it as odd.

There are two ways that can go though - where does Christian Howard play? Where does Everitt play?

Generally, players who have the ability to play multiple positions nail down one position first. With MS it seems he reads the play very well so can slot in on the HBF, with MB I'm not sure that entry into senior football is as well established.

 

[Zgope1]

When I look at Marcus bontempelli,I see jarred Brennan
Now, jarred also could have been anything and perhaps Marcus has more mental strength desire and focus
But to be honest, I do not see us taking him
Under BMac s tenure we recruit natural footballers and Marcus is not
KK, billings, Sharenberg and Aish are
And really Marcus's kicking whilst long is not a pinch on KKs, if we want a tall mid fielder then I would go with KK, who is a much better kick, moves like a footballer, is quicker, good side step, every bit as much upside and almost as tall.

I say bontempelli is not coming to the whitten oval

disagree with the bolded. Reads the play well, makes good decisions in traffic, reads it well in the air.

Also KK yes is quicker, and has just about the best foot in the draft but Bontempelli is fitter and has a much better inside game. Also i contend that when Bonts is 26, the fact that he's been in an AFL system for so long will make his extra height a serious advantage versatility wise. If he plays as an inside mid for us like he has to finish the TAC season he'll be a nightmare for his tagger when he goes and rests forward. KK could do that but to a much lesser extent.

Watching Bonts doing follow up running is a special thing to see too. He does those Varcoe-like streams up the ground. Amazing power running for second efforts.

 

[Dannnnnnnnnn]

Not sure how you MB is comparable to Macrae or Stringer. Stringer is explosive with big game instincts. Macrae is Mr consistency who can be relied upon to rack up high numbers and has great workrate. MB is neither explosive or consistent. MB plays taller than Macrae, is more inside and better hands in tight. Compared to Stringer, MB can run all day and is more inclined to attack with a long well placed handball to a runner whereas Stringer will take them on and smash through with spped and strength. Apart from height, don't see the comparison myself...

Playing in the same style and playing in the same role doesn't mean that they're exactly the same, though. This is mostly the reason I hate giving player comparisons - because they're interpreted to mean that the players are identical.

Macrae, Stringer and Bontempelli are all inside/outside midfielder/forwards with good but not elite disposal, can win their own ball without being genuine inside extractors and are relatively good overhead. They play similar roles and will be a part of the same rotation. None of them give us explosive pace and skill on the outside; instead they'll be part of similar inside/rover/forward rotations. That's all I was meaning; not that they play identically and have all of the same attributes.

 

[Kelvin31]

As Dan keeps telling us. Be wary of focussing on Combine results. They can be misleading (see below..Tutt)

(When I see Bonts being spoken about with Height/Big Kick/Runner/Flanker/Mid type I get the "Andrejs Everitt Shivers". Although Bonts is a completely different charatcer/leader, I pray to the God almighty that he isn't another high speculative Everitt pick.)

2012 Draft Combine
Jake Stringer
=1st (perfect score) in the goal kicking test
=3rd clean hands test
Nathan Hrovat
=3rd clean hands test
Jack Macrae
=4th goal kicking test
Lachie Hunter
1st agility test
2010 Draft Camp
Mitch Wallis
=6th agility test
=3rd clean hands test
Tom Liberatore
3rd kicking efficiency
Luke Dahlhaus
1st agility test at VIC state screening (record time)
2009 Draft Camp
Jason Tutt
6th repeat sprints
4th beep test
2008 Draft Camp
Ayce Cordy
5th agility test
Liam Jones
10th agility test
2007 Draft Camp
Jarrad Grant
4th in the 20m sprint
2006 Draft Camp
Mark Austin
8th repeat sprints
2004 Draft Camp
Tom Williams
6th running vertical jump
8th shuttle run
2nd in the 3km time trial

 

[timtamWB]

There are two ways that can go though - where does Christian Howard play? Where does Everitt play?

Generally, players who have the ability to play multiple positions nail down one position first. With MS it seems he reads the play very well so can slot in on the HBF, with MB I'm not sure that entry into senior football is as well established.

I completely agree with you, I'm just giving reasons why I think Macca would be interested in those sort of types. He's spruiked time and again "total football" and the ability for most players on the ground to be flexible and be able to play multiple positions. But MB reminds me too much of Everitt in that regards, as you said he can play different positions but hasn't nailed down a position. I get the feeling he might be lost at AFL level, still show flashes of brilliance, but still be lost.

 

[Super Hans]

When I look at Marcus bontempelli,I see jarred Brennan.

When you watch Marcus Bontempelli's five minute highlight video*.

 

[josh the gent]

Honestly I think his floor is similar to Tambling. He'll get the games, impact on some games, but overall be fairly disappointing.

Isn't that all draftees floor though?

There is no guarantee that Aish will be able to reach Tambling's level.